Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

reply to post by Holodomor


To err is human; to forgive... at BrainyQuote
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alexanderp101451.html - Similarto To err is human; to forgive... at BrainyQuote

Hope springs eternal in the human breast: Man never is, but always To be Blest.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Alexander Pope ...



If this has any foundation I will err until Dan gets His #### together and says I am sorry to those innocent kids.


ljb

reply to post by Holodomor

Untrue, I know plenty of gay people (my brother included), who get bullied by christians and non-christians. They key is to raise awareness that it comes from everywhere, not just from Bible-thumpers.

Reality, the vast majority of bullying directed at gays comes from the Bible, I have witnessed it myself, and am not alone in seeing it.

A Theology of Anti-Gay Bullying

Anti-gay bullying is a theological issue because it has a theological base. I find it difficult to believe that even those among us with a vibrant imagination can muster the creative energy to picture a reality in which anti-gay violence and bullying exist without the anti-gay religious messages that support them.

These messages come in many forms, degrees of virulence, and volumes of expression. The most insidious forms, however, are not those from groups like Westboro Baptist Church. Most people quickly dismiss this fanaticism as the red-faced ranting of a fringe religious leader and his small band of followers.

More difficult to address are the myriad ways in which everyday churches that do a lot of good in the world also perpetuate theologies that undergird and legitimate instrumental violence. The simplistic, black and white lines that are drawn between conceptions of good and evil make it all-too-easy to apply these dualisms to groups of people. When theologies leave no room for ambiguity, mystery and uncertainty, it becomes very easy to identify an “us” (good, heterosexual) versus a “them” (evil, gay).

Why Anti-Gay Bullying is a Theological Issue

Attacking the Bible in such a personal manner shows what kind of an illogical, ill-tempered man he is, and that it is he with the thin skin. Don't get me wrong, I've had my stints railing against some of the fallacies of the bible (I wrote several high school and college dissertations on it). But as a realist, causing more dissent amongst people is the wrong way to go about bringing tolerance to the gay community.

Mr. Savage was not attacking the bible, but rather, the selective use of parts of the bible to justify the actions by some who claim to be "christian".

By the way, I would technically be classified a Christian, and yes, I have written theses and papers exposing the fallacies in mainstream Christian beliefs.

We are in agreement on this, I too try to live as Christ taught.

Edit: To clarify, I absolutely agree with the fact that people using the Bible as a basis to discriminate against gays is a problem, however, the forum that he used to rally against the bible was the wrong one - it was a bullying movement, not a religious debate. If you can't keep religion out of the topic, then don't talk about the topic. Its plenty easy to keep religious orientation out of a drug awareness speech or a discussion on safe sex practices...why not bullying?

The vast majority of bullying a gay man experiences comes from a Biblical source, the same can't be said for the causes for drug use, or unsafe sex, they do not have a predominately Biblical cause. The actions of fundamentalist radical "christians" do not cause drug use, and for the majority od instances, unsafe sex (at least in the Western World)

reply to post by RyanFromCan


The meathead was attacking innocent children.
This thread has absoutly nothing to do with any other men even if they have no penis or vagina. Or brain or soul.

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by RyanFromCan

 

The meathead was attacking innocent children.
This thread has absoutly nothing to do with any other men even if they have no penis or vagina. Or brain or soul.

If these so called children can choose to believe in something as commplex as a religious belief - they are not innocent. If they are innocent, they are also fools.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by RyanFromCan

 

The meathead was attacking innocent children.
This thread has absoutly nothing to do with any other men even if they have no penis or vagina. Or brain or soul.

If these so called children can choose to believe in something as complex as a religious belief - they are not innocent. If they are innocent, they are also fools.

Where is the headline: MAJORITY OF HIGH SCHOOL KIDS LISTENED AND APPLAUDED DAN SAVAGE.

What about the Gay Children? What about the children of Gay Parents? What about the majority that stayed and applauded?

I am so beyond the "soft pedaling" of the hypocrisy of anti-gay Christians.



.

reply to post by RyanFromCan

RyanFromCan

The vast majority of bullying a gay man experiences comes from a Biblical source, the same can't be said for the causes for drug use, or unsafe sex, they do not have a predominately Biblical cause. The actions of fundamentalist radical "christians" do not cause drug use, and for the majority od instances, unsafe sex (at least in the Western World)

I have to ask is there a study on this and if there is can you provide the proof of it? I would think that being bullied myself in school that most of them did not identify the reason why they were bullying me.Its not just Gays who are bullied.Anyone who is different gets bullied. Its unfair to claim that one group gets bullied more than the other. The reason why dont even have to be the bible. The bible dont make these people go out and punch someone.No one forced them to call you a name,slap you,or steal your money. It all comes down to the person no matter race,creed,or color. Thats almost like saying the Gun told me to kill that man mr officer.

reply to post by Annee

Where is the headline: MAJORITY OF HIGH SCHOOL KIDS LISTENED AND APPLAUDED DAN SAVAGE.

What about the Gay Children? What about the children of Gay Parents? What about the majority that stayed and applauded?

I am so beyond the "soft pedaling" of the hypocrisy of anti-gay Christians.

The videos seem to have the audience applauding as some walked out early on.

The video stops near the end ......

Maybe they cut off the final applauding ??

Interesting point.

Have any gay kids / parents made any statements about this ?

Hey Folks! I thought it was time for some TRUTH! That's right, Capital "T" truth. Not ONE time during the segment of the speech in question did Dan Savage brutalize, marginalize, deride or insult any Christians. What he did do is speak truthfully about the contents of the Bible and it's history as justification for unprecedented violence. Now, if you find truth insulting than so be it. Dan Savage pointed out rather bluntly that the Bible has been used - since it's inception - to justify the abuse, torture and murder of millions of people. Now, there are those who would say, "It wasn't the Bible that did those things! It was misguided people." Well, isn't that just the same as saying, "the Devil made me do it!" I won't quote Bible verses here - you're all well informed people and besides, Mr. Savage clearly mentions the books that contain the scriptures that command MURDER. However, what I will say is that it cannot be argued at all that what Mr. Savage is has said is in anyway untruthful or misinterpreted. It's all right there.

Now, is Dan Savage the most eloquent speaker - no. Could he have presented his discourse in a more benign way? Yes. Does he speak for the entirety of the Gay Community? No. No more than Fred Phelps speaks for the Christian Community. Perhaps if Dan Savage would have been more eloquent we wouldn't be having this ridiculous conversation about the Anti-Bullying movement being a cover for a nefarious Anti-Christians plot. GIVE ME A BREAK! But if you really do believe that then consider this: In September of 2011, upwards of 11 CHILDREN committed suicide because they had rather been dead than continue being bullied because of a perceived homosexuality. These were children. Not to mention the countless adults who have taken their own lives because of continued bullying. And let's not to mention the countless people who were actually murdered because of their perceived homosexuality.

Now, I'm not saying that all Christians are bullies. I know better than that and so do you. However, when I was growing up every time someone threw the word "Faggot" at me they quickly followed by throwing the Bible at me - Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans don't throw the Bible - only Christians do.

I remember one day during my freshman year of college I approached two girls who I sang with in choir because I was struggling with my faith and I knew they belonged to the same denomination that I did growing up. I asked them if they would take me to church with them and I swear to you one of them said: "I'd love for you to come to church with us but you're still going to burn in Hell." I knew then that Church was no place I'd ever want to be again. You might argue that these people weren't real Christians - and that's fine - I'd be inclined to agree. However, these are the people who - especially now days - are seemingly becoming the face of your Religion. Christianity doesn't need that kind of bad press. America doesn't need the turmoil and I sure the hell don't need it.

Most importantly, I believe that this should be the time that Christians took this opportunity to have a conversation within their own ranks. After all, this really is about perception isn't it? If there really is such a thing as an Anti-Christian movement thinly veiled behind the Anti-Bullying movement do you want to continue being perceived as bullies? Are you bullies? Do you want to continue being perceived as bullies because you live by a book that demands for the murder people different? That endorses the enslavement of entire groups of people who do not jump when you say jump? Or live like you say live? Or that denies me my shrimp and crawfish? I'm sure you don't. So rather than ranting about how Christians are hated and that there is a covert mission to destroy the Congregation. Flip the script and show US once and for all what Christ's love really looks like. What does it look like to really be a Christian? What does it sound like? Does it bully people? Did you read where Jesus, faithfully called the Son of God, Son of Man, Lamb of God, Light of the World, bullied anyone?

Stop pretending that you're perfect or holy or sanctified because you're not. You bleed like the rest of us monsters do, you just have a very few different beliefs than the rest of us do.

I ask you to live the Christian life and follow Jesus' teachings AND then dare someone like me to throw a stone at you. Because I promise you I couldn't throw that stone. It seems to me it isn't the rest of the World that has a problem...it's the Christian Church that does and it's the Christian Church that will have to fix it. Because if even a few people think that Christians are bullies there must be a legitimate reason why. Or as they say: Smoke follows fire.

For my part, I'd love to live in a world where Jesus' teachings were really the foundation for society. Not the Apostles, not the Old Testament but only Jesus' teachings. For my part, I'd do away with everything but the red letters. But I can't make those changes - only Christians can.


End Scene

reply to post by WickedStar


Thank you for this post. I live as best I can by Christ's teachings, I am not perfect, never claimed to be, but There is absolutely nothing I can fault you for in your post. If you read through the last 20 pages or so, you will see I have desperately tried to do "damage control" as I realize there are many who profess to be Christians, but act anything like Christians, as far as following the teaching of Christ. I know unfortunately I am in the minority, and this troubles me, as I am seen as the radical that does not hate "fags" who realizes the Bible is neither perfect, or literal, and I do not, nor put up with others using Christianity or the Bible to harm other people.

I find it interesting that as a Christian, I found not one bit insult and took absolutely no offense at what Dan Savage had to say, in fact, I was in total agreement with him. He was not attacking my faith, he was, if anything, attacking the perversion of faith many have, and as far as I am concerned, that is fair game, I also use the word attacking loosely here.

It occurs to me that those who took offense to Dan's speech may be the ones that most need to hear it, the ones that have likely in the past used the Bible to judge and condemn homosexuals. No some outrage, as guilty consciences talking, trying to justify their actions.

It's a fact that agnostics and atheists know more about religion than theists do for the most part. I know in my case leaning towards agnostic theism is a direct result of studying as much as I can on all religions. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but whatever. I'm usually pretty tolerant of other people's beliefs, but blind faith extremists really do get on my nerves.. A lot.


That being said, this walkout and the fact that it was covered by any news sounds very suspect to me. I didn't even have to read that this story came from Fox news, that could have gone unmentioned and everybody would still know where it came from. It's not that Fox covers things other news agencies refuse to cover -- It's that Fox literally manufactures news and stirs up trouble on purpose.


All that being said, this guy shouldn't go around disrespecting the Bible in schools with kids of mixed religions if that is what he is in fact doing.

i read most of the first four pages of this thread. This is my first ever post here by the way. I never realized how many pro-christian people were interested in conspiracy theories, maybe they are as kookoo as I always figured they were.

first of all, I like Dan Savage, he's a pretty informed journalist and could probably argue anybody here out the door, or out of the closet for that matter. I agree with him. The christian fundamentalist faction in this country is a mitigating factor of very high significance when it comes to the perception and treatment of homosexuals. And honestly, not trying to come off as a hater, but Christians are sheep. End of story dude. if you cant make up your own mind, if you derive a personal conviction borne from the sentimental after-effects of preachy bible quotes, and if you're unable to distinguish the contrasting evolution of social thought and its ratio of enlightenment in regards to acceptance and tolerance versus that of followers who have most likely one elementary superficial deciding epiphany (probably seems that way when you lack the intelligence to consider the flip side) or just a built in traditional family value doctrine, then you're a sheep as well.

That being said, I accept people who want to believe what they want to believe. what I reject and what Savage rejects, and many people on the left side of the issue, is that the rights of people in this country are trampled on for the sake? of religious sanctity. The rights of people in this country are slighted because people with only an opinion are using their spiritual beliefs to influence policy and lawmaking. Thats the sole issue and the gay people in this country are more than warranted to feel oppressed and discriminated against.

So when it comes to the religious factor (Christian factor if you really want to be frank), it's what is screwing this country up, so to speak. How often do we hear some right-wing mouthpiece blab about atheists wanting to sit out of the pledge of allegiance (gotta love that phrase) because of the inclusion of God in its verse? Suddenly THEY feel under attack by atheists. Gimme a break.

And by the way, if you really think what Savage said in his presentation was "cursing" the audience, wake up. For the love of god, wake up dude.

reply to post by WickedStar


I wanted to add one more thing.

The New Civil Rights Movement is reporting the following:

A virulently homophobic and anti-gay preacher on Sunday derided parents who don’t “squash like a cockroach” the gay out of their children. Pastor Sean Harris told parents they are “authorized,” and that he was “giving them a special dispensation” to attack their children. “Give them a good punch,” and “crack that wrist,” Harris told parents, if their four-year old boy, for example, “starts acting a little ‘girlish’.” Pastor Harris added that parents should tell their four-year olds to “man up, son, get that dress off you get outside and dig a ditch because that’s what boys do.”

The Mr. Harris has since apologized for his remarks and stated that he was not advocating child abuse. However, not everyone is as smart as he is and just as surely as people listen to their Preachers there was someone who went home with the intention of breaking their sons or daughters of their perceived homosexuality.

Now I ask you, who's the bully?

Christians can't be bullies. It's simply a tough love to make people right with God in order to save their souls. All Christians can do is follow God's commandments, and love their neighbors. In fact, Christians can do no wrong because they serve a higher power. It is that higher power that all must bow down to and blindly serve. Otherwise, you are not a good person, for only Christians can be good and moral persons for only Christians can know the mind of God.

No no, it's impossible for Christians to be bullies for when you have God supporting you you can do anything you want to and to hell with the atheists who impose their immoral hypocritical views on the matter.

reply to post by Partygirl


Poor guy. Hates the church and christians but probably was willing to give an arm and a leg to partake in a most christian tradition: marriage. Any wonder he's so angry?

Or probably another stooge hired to create further dissent.

Credit to the kids for walking out on that fudge-packer. The only unfortunate fact about the scenario was that everyone didn't walk out.

Originally posted by Nightwalk
reply to post by Partygirl

 

Poor guy. Hates the church and christians but probably was willing to give an arm and a leg to partake in a most christian tradition: marriage. Any wonder he's so angry?

Marriage is about a contract. It's that simple.

With or without religion.

However - - - many gays are religious.

I'll skip the rest of your post - - which by intent is meant to be homophobic and insulting.

Originally posted by WickedStar
reply to post by WickedStar

 

I wanted to add one more thing.

The New Civil Rights Movement is reporting the following:

A virulently homophobic and anti-gay preacher on Sunday derided parents who don’t “squash like a cockroach” the gay out of their children. Pastor Sean Harris told parents they are “authorized,” and that he was “giving them a special dispensation” to attack their children. “Give them a good punch,” and “crack that wrist,” Harris told parents, if their four-year old boy, for example, “starts acting a little ‘girlish’.” Pastor Harris added that parents should tell their four-year olds to “man up, son, get that dress off you get outside and dig a ditch because that’s what boys do.”

The Mr. Harris has since apologized for his remarks and stated that he was not advocating child abuse. However, not everyone is as smart as he is and just as surely as people listen to their Preachers there was someone who went home with the intention of breaking their sons or daughters of their perceived homosexuality.

Now I ask you, who's the bully?

Is it being reported on FOX News?

Nope. At least not yet.

Man fatally beats toddler 'to make him act like a boy instead of a girl'

In a horrible tragedy on Long Island's Shinnecock Indian Reservation, a 20-year-old man is accused of beating to death the 17-month-old boy he was babysitting. Pedro Jones told police he beat the child with closed fists in an effort to "make [the toddler] act like a boy instead of a little girl."

www.examiner.com...

reply to post by flyJoseph


Sooooooo pro-CHristian conspiracy theorists are kookoo to you? What about all the leftists here who believe that Bush Jr was directly involved in a major 9-11 conspiracy of flying planes into buiildings? I call you on this.
By the way, you might be just as at home on the other thread where someone has posted a new study that homophobic people are likely repressed gays themselves and they generally had authoritarian parents. The basis for the study was COLLEGE kids being shown pictures and asked questions about their parents. The article of course was published in some obscure psych journal.

By the way, Savage's arguments are very typical and can be found anywhere on the Net.

reply to post by RyanFromCan


American law matters because we don't stone people according to Old Testament punishments. Now see, doesn't that make sense? In the US we do things according to the Constitution, and not by leviticus or Sharia.

Originally posted by RyanFromCan

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Jordan River

 

You are doing classic greek philosophy rhetoric

Well thanks for letting me know.

Is classic greek philosophy rhetoric also considered trollish? I must have done it in a past life.

It is when the sole purpose for it's use is to attempt to derail the thread.
2nd

I wasn't using Greek anything, so the whole point is moot. Discussing something is not derailing. Just because you and I disagree does not make either one of us anything but people who disagree.