Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Oh man there are seriously people on this forum I don't see eye to eye with at all. I thought that video was brilliant. Those kids who walked out just don't want to hear the truth. The truth is always painful to small minds. I study religion and I have read the Bible several times and he's pretty dead on in my book. There was nothing wrong at all theologically with his point and to get hung up just because he used one swear word a couple times (that we all hear everyday) is to totally miss the message. I think Jesus said it best, "You choke on a gnat and swallow a camel". You make a big deal about little things and you totally miss the more important things like compassion, justice and mercy. I would even say he's probably closer to being a Christian than any of the people who walked out. It's amazing to me Christianity has strayed so far from it's original teachings here in the US. I wouldn't even call these mainstream Christians (like those who walked out) today Christian. Oh, I know they may call themselves Christian but if Christ came back today they wouldn't even recognize him.

Originally posted by jacktorrance
reply to post by MsAphrodite

 

No offense taken on my part. (And somehow, though I don't know her, I feel user Kaylaluv probably wasn't offended either) It just didn't make much sense to me, as I felt she had been promoting civility and love for one another through most of her posts.

Thank you, JackTorrence. I appreciate the kind words. Just participating in a healthy debate here.

reply to post by jzenman


The point isn't that he offended christians, it's the fact that every other group of people on the planet are coddled and fiercely protected by PC'ness, but christians are expected to take it. Christians are tired of it and I don't blame them.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Thank you, JackTorrence. I appreciate the kind words. Just participating in a healthy debate here.

No thanks needed. I've read other posts you've made on other subjects and you certainly aren't one I had pegged for being uncivil or hateful.

Your responses to this debate have made that even clearer to me, when several other people from both sides have been blatantly rude.

Fighting biggotry, with biggotry of your own does nothing but make the other side even more polarized and hostile. Anyone with some common sense can see this.

Not only do you make those on the other side more angry and steadfast, you lose sympathy and support from people looking in from the outside. You know, people that fall in between left wing and right wing somewhere.

Both the left wing, and right wings make me sick to be honest. Have fun bickering amongst yourselves, and claiming foul about being attacked while turning a blind eye to attacks that come from "your team". Yeah both sides are guilty.

Let's try to use some analogies. Personally, this man's opinions don't bother me- they're nothing I haven't heard before. However, he was a national spokesman for tolerance and anti-bullying.

It would be like a spokesman for religious peace getting up there and launching into a rant on another religion.

It would be like a spokesman for racial relations getting up there and launching into a rant on another race.

It would be like a spokesman for woman's rights getting up there and launching a rant about men.

Etc., etc.

He was supposed to be an anti-bullying advocate but instead launched into a tirade that seems to have been based more on his personal issues and resentment than on his campaign.

Again, as a spokesman for a cause, one must be above reproach. I think he failed here and seemed to engage in the very behavior he was fighting against. You don't engage in the behavior you are campaigning against.

reply to post by jacktorrance


To be fair, I did not call Kayla uncivil or hateful. I simply said I detected some anger, which I also apologized for after re-reading her post. Again Kayla I apologize. You most certainly did nothing offensive.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
He knows it is wrong is my point in front of a big audience but continues to be arrogant and offend.I mean He has to know some people get offedned by it and take it as bullying.Then at the very end he apologizes because He knows He feels bad for getting angry.

Sorry to Seventhseal..forgot to qoute.

edit on 28-4-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)

And what? Christians who use the excuse of the bible to abuse others DON'T know they are offending someone? With what Mr. Savage said, if anyone is really truly offended by it, they probably have issues regarding the abuse of gay people using the bible as an excuse.

reply to post by MsAphrodite


I understand you didn't say that. You simply said that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and civility, I went on my own direction after that - I didn't mean to put words into your mouth (post).

Originally posted by polarwarrior

Originally posted by Partygirl
pro-Gay agenda of hatred and intolerance

!

So the "pro-gay" people are the intolerant ones?

Now I've heard everything.

live and let live is my belief... there was a time not long ago I was a homophobe but I have some friends who are homosexual and believe it or not the folks on ats have helped me make sense of it and how it can fit in with my faith.

for those with anti homosexuality in their faith I would have to say "Live and let Die" because they, as sadistic as it may seem, should derive satisfaction in knowing where they are going... but what if the homosexuals do not know Christ? then they would have to look at themselves for not being teachers or showing love to fellow humans like they should... this would also elude to their beliefs being incorrect and they are headed down the wrong path.

though I am not homosexual nor pro-homosexual, I will "Live and let Live" and possibly bring to their attention the word of God the next time one presents themselves to me... though it won't be with a fist or a boot.

I was only able to read the first six pages before I ended up losing my top, so if what I'm gonna say has already been posted by someone else, my apologies.

I just spent an hour on the phone with an alchemist friend of mine who is a pretty good sounding board on what is REALLY going on here, and I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed yet. (Based on said 6 pages of course)

In order to break it down though, I have to give what I see as the answer in two parts; the christian POV, and the world's, b/c their not remotely the same. There is a nefarious ideology being instituted here, and it needs called out, so here it goes:

"The world"- I can't believe you guys can't see that what this anti-bullying agenda, (and I don't mean ONLY this scenario , it's only a part of the whole) is actually doing isn't trying to stop bullying, but to control language, and ideas. What this guy is doing, (and as several have already exposed) is being hypocritical, a "luciferian pharisee" if you will. It's ironic, that the very reason some of you have for not liking christians, just so happens to reside in this man in abundance. You say he's speaking the "truth" and if christians can't take it, tough. Well, not so, he isn't speaking the "truth", he's redefining what truth IS and that's the whole agenda here you need to be made aware of.If you don't support "pc theology" you are either a bigot, hater, or uncivilized ie: you are not a part of "civilized society" so what that means is THEY are using peer pressure to get you to conform on what THEIR version of reality REALLY IS. (And this is just one of many tools they have & use on society to break us down day by day, ie: tsa, police state, rigged elections, etc etc) But the ULTIMATE lie is this: They are making what is corrupt in man NORMAL. Now try and follow.

You have two main thoughts when it comes to what's happening in the world today; TPTB want us to accept that everything is corrupt and ignore it and be apathetic about the situation b/c we can not change it, then you have the alternative, more evil deed which is this; redefining what corruption really IS. And if you redefine reality, redefine what is "normal", you have less chance against it b/c the firewall in your mind (your conscience) won't be so easy to intercept it, or call BS on it, and accepts it as truth. THAT is what is happening today, and it dates back all the way to to the antediluvian age, redefining reality and redefining TRUTH.

Christians- you're just as (mostly) deceived, b/c what the world has done here is tell you what YOUR FAITH ACTUALLY IS, rather than what the bible actually says it is. So, what you do is build upon a false perception of truth, and then when everything goes to heck, you question your faith & foundation when the simple fact of the matter is is that your foundation was faulty in the first place, so don't blame God or the bible! (I know I'll catch hell for that one) This is how TPTB (or satan if you prefer) works. They teach define what your belief structure is, that way the know how you will respond. You go to church regurgitating ideas that some man tells you, rather than what the scripture really says, then shake your head why everything isn't as you had hoped. Again, b/c the foundation was hosed from the start. An example would be these so-called holidays of christmas, easter & halloween,(though to be honest if you're saved, what the heck are you doing celebrating halloween?) Paul said Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1st Cor. 5:6) And that obviously means the tiniest amount of corruption can change our spiritual life, and we shouldn't tolerate any KNOWN corruption in our lives at all, period. Now you KNOW that Istar & Saturnalia (Easter & Christmas) are pagan holidays, so why celebrate them? But, more importantly than THAT, how come we see less pastors today coming out against these holidays? Is it due to the "lil leaven" principle? Don't give me the whole ends justify the means bs here, or you're not worshiping what these pagans did, you're following paganistic rituals, period. I'm not here to condemn those that practice these holidays, I'm truly not, I'm saying that this is the best example I have when it comes to this line of thinking I am trying to point out and have (sincere) christians try and avoid this trap. On so many levels, your pastor defines what your faith is, rather than YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION WITH THE BIBLE & THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and that's just bunk. So, when you allow ppl to again, redefine reality & truth, and nothing godly happens b/c of it, whose fault is that, God's or yours?

Sorry for such a long post, wish i could trim it down a tad but I didn't wanna be on this thing for another hour trying to do it.

reply to post by jacktorrance


Thank you Jack. It is a pleasure talking with you here on ATS.

reply to post by MsAphrodite

Thank you Jack. It is a pleasure talking with you here on ATS.

You as well.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

He clearly thought that by bashing the bible and pointing out what he thought were discrepancies in theological ideas he would get sympathy from the crowd. To me, he just came off crude and pathetic.

What is crude and pathetic is for one group of people to dictate to another that they should live their lives according to the dictates of an imaginary man that lives in the sky.

It would appear that xtians are afraid, very afraid because they hear the death knell for their childish belief system in the chant of the gay community insisting on an end to the christian bigotry.

I do believe Mr Savage to be right, the gay issue will indeed be the final nail in the coffin of this absurd death cult, you cannot condemn slavery when your godman condones it equally as you can not condone homosexuality if your godman condemns it .

The only difference between christianity and islam is a little bit of time

The very title of this thread is misleading. It's so funny to me some of you don't even see that. And to call that a tirade? That is really laughable. It borders on not being in touch with reality. Just because you disagreed with the message doesn't make it a tirade or a rant. Maybe it sounded like a rant or tirade because the idea was so alien to your ears. Even Jesus Himself was accused of blaspheme. But he spoke to common people and used common examples to express his point. And his message at the time was very offensive to the so-called religious of the day. But it was the Truth and it is still with us to this day because it was true. And you would have to be ignorant of the English language to think the speaker (Dan Savage) cursed out any of those high school kids. To curse someone out it would have to be directed at them. The swear word he used just means "false" or "untrue". Grow up people.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Let's try to use some analogies. Personally, this man's opinions don't bother me- they're nothing I haven't heard before. However, he was a national spokesman for tolerance and anti-bullying.

It would be like a spokesman for religious peace getting up there and launching into a rant on another religion.

It would be like a spokesman for racial relations getting up there and launching into a rant on another race.

It would be like a spokesman for woman's rights getting up there and launching a rant about men.

Etc., etc.

He was supposed to be an anti-bullying advocate but instead launched into a tirade that seems to have been based more on his personal issues and resentment than on his campaign.

Again, as a spokesman for a cause, one must be above reproach. I think he failed here and seemed to engage in the very behavior he was fighting against. You don't engage in the behavior you are campaigning against.

How about this analogy? If a kid has been punched in the face by bullies every day for 6 months, and he decides one day to fight back by punching his bullies... is that wrong? Does that make this kid a bully, or does that make the kid someone who refuses to let himself be bullied anymore?

I think he was addressing some of the reasons for bullying. Yes, he concentrated on gay bullying because that is what he is personally familiar with. And, he believes people using the Bible to justify their hatred of gays is a major contributing factor in gay bullying. Wouldn't that make it appropriate to the subject at hand?

If you were going to discuss what it was that contributed to or caused gay bullying, what would you say?

Originally posted by kaylaluv
How about this analogy? If a kid has been punched in the face by bullies every day for 6 months, and he decides one day to fight back by punching his bullies... is that wrong? Does that make this kid a bully, or does that make the kid someone who refuses to let himself be bullied anymore?

I think he was addressing some of the reasons for bullying. Yes, he concentrated on gay bullying because that is what he is personally familiar with. And, he believes people using the Bible to justify their hatred of gays is a major contributing factor in gay bullying. Wouldn't that make it appropriate to the subject at hand?

If you were going to discuss what it was that contributed to or caused gay bullying, what would you say?

But these students in his audience were not such a type to his or our knowledge. He just stereotyped based on his perceptions and prejudice. Everyone likes to stand up to a bully. But in your analogy, you'd just go around punching random people in blue shirts because whoever tormented you those 6 months wore a blue shirt.

See what I'm saying?

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by jacktorrance

 

To be fair, I did not call Kayla uncivil or hateful. I simply said I detected some anger, which I also apologized for after re-reading her post. Again Kayla I apologize. You most certainly did nothing offensive.

No worries. Glad we can disagree but still be friendly.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Anyone who can show the hypocrisy of the Bible is okay in my book.

Pun intended.

Except for his cursing at a high school.

For those of us who don't live in the US could someone please explain what this "cursing" is all about please.

Is this like a voodoo curse or something ? Are you referring to MR Savage saying BS how is that a curse exactly ?

When I see a "devout" Christian sell their daughters into slavery to clear their debts, when I see a man put to death by the christian town for growing mixed crops in a field or wearing clothing made of mixed fibers, when I see a christian man own a slave from canada or mexico, when I see the entire NFL not using footballs made of pigskins, when I see someone put to death for working on the sabath, or when I see someone burning sacrifices on the alter then I will see someone that can claim Leviticus as their justification for their hatred of homosexuals.

Until I see someone do all these things and hate gays too I will not be looking at true believers of the Christian faith; I will be looking at hypochristians that wish to pick and chose which parts of the bible to believe.

So how about it? If you live in Arkansas and want to prove your Christian faith please sell your daughter into slavery to me before you go judging gays.