Ron Paul will destroy us all!

reply to post by Dasher


Thanks for the well written reply. I really enjoyed the analogy of dynamic diversity as it relates to small fragmented communities with individual elected systems. However, one could argue that eventually, when all of the ineffective political/economic systems are weeded out by natural selection, you would just have a couple systems among all the communities, which is pretty much what we have today. But anyways.

I don't disagree in theory but I also don't know if this system would foster a healthier middle class and a shrinking lower class. I would predict that some (if not most) areas would be corrupted by powerful individuals. Without regulation, people with power will use that power.

I guess for me it always comes down to the same idea; until all human beings start doing the right thing for their fellows, no political system will function as written on paper. Both socialism and unregulated free market capitalism look great on paper...but then account for the human factor and both systems fall on their face.

I believe we will have true liberty and social justice when 99% of the people do the right thing without a government telling them to do so. Until that happens I really don't have hope for an ideal political/economic system. With that said, I'm more comfortable having regulations in place on those who would destroy the environment and enslave my fellows than live in an unregulated free-market where anybody can take advantage in an unlimited capacity.

Maybe their is a better way. Maybe that better way will show itself in the next few decades. If history has shown us anything it's that evolution has not abandoned us. We are still moving forward. If you look at the history of humans on this world from a macro level you would see a consistent movement towards more freedom, happiness, and opportunity.

I definitely feel that we are about to go through a painful growth process as a species. It will be very interesting to see what this world does over the next 50 years.

reply to post by brianmg5



Just for my 2cents, RP is not so bad.. He is far from the savior people here consider him.. But he is not all wrong either.

reply to post by Dasher


Slavery would be the opposite of liberty and freedom. And I would assume that seeking a diversified unregulated local government for each community that the entire goal is more liberty and freedom for all.

Maybe you're not choosing the right words, for slavery would look something like this...

A boat arrives on the shore of a third world country and men with guns and wire ties start to chase down farmers and members of the local communities and force them to get on the boat. They arrive in the USA and are forced to work for board (quality of said board to be determined by their new master). Without regulation there is no guarantee that members will remain with their families. The masters of these slaves will feel real power. And that power will poison their once reasonable minds.

There is a difference between the bondage we experience in our society and slavery. One is self inflicting damage, an act of free will, voluntary slavery if you will. And the other is by force, no free will, real slavery.

While you've found some books on the positive aspects of slavery, I can assure you their are many more books on the negative. I've read several personal narratives written by black slaves and they are pretty clear that they would rather die than not have their liberty.

As far as your willingness to sacrifice liberty because in the end it would reward more liberty. That reminds me of the reasoning behind socialism (which I somewhat agree with). That by forcing people with abundance to contribute to those who have not, all would have more. With more food, shelter, etc comes more liberty. More of the ability to do what you want in this world.

Again, this is an interesting conversation. I can't say that I agree with you on the slavery theory, not even a little. I'm hoping that you honestly don't advocate someone coming along and stealing your son from your front yard and enslaving them for as long as their master deems necessary. And if you're response to that is "well my son would be off-limits to slavery," my response is; who would be regulating that? Government? Who would be worthy of being a slave and who wouldn't? Would it be based on their economic status? The color of their skin? Their criminal background? DNA tests?

reply to post by brianmg5


Unfortunately, I agree with you in that it will take a change of mind and heart before any political change will be effective. However, I am sure you are still missing the point. Regulations that make you feel safe also ensure the safety and person-hood of the corporations which protect/harbor those who run the corporations. Saying that you prefer the regulations is to say that you prefer the system to be run by those with the power to sway the system monetarily, which ends up being the corporations, once again. So then, as free market system is one in which there is a greater likelihood that individuals would reap what they sow. Just something to consider for the sake of consistency.

reply to post by brianmg5


I suppose that the modern stigmas of slavery cause my point to be diffused. The point I was raising was not one of oxymoronic logic. Consider, if you are untruthful about a problem, you cannot solve the problem except by happenstance. So then, if we continue to deny that we live under a type of involuntary servitude to corporations and other money people, then the problem will never be resolved. In the same way, we should be humble and truthful enough to accept our weaknesses, and by that, grow stronger.

Certainly, I am not advocating slavery through violence or inequity, but I am advocating slavery as a means of social welfare that is honest, promoting individual progress, and establishing patterns which we can all learn from and admire. Beatings, racism, ignorance, these are obviously things that should be removed from the notion that I am advocating. Our culture has been poisoned for generations to certain ideas and truths and that is why a majority of our population not only lives in deep bondage, but are also unaware of their status to the point of believing that they are void of the very chains that ensnare them.

So, again, I am not suggesting that we "get wet to stay dry." I am suggesting that we be honest to stay honest so that we can grow up and away from the wisdom that there is to learn in humility and consideration of our neighbors and selves.
Cheers.