Insight on China's military. Big but not very effective.

Source www.strategypage.com...

Long standing corruption of officers, lack of training and high quantity but low quality equipment are major problems. IMO these will require many years to rectify.

They purchase a lot from Russia (outdated junk?) so I expect it won't be long before we also sell them weaponry and/or they will buy our stuff from Israel.

Meanwhile do they really need military might when they can rule the world economically.

All Bark,no bite.......

If the military threat of China was as great as its claims, Hong Kong, Mongolia, Taiwan, Tibet, and the Arunachal Pradesh region of India would not continue to pose such political problems for the country. Nearby countries like Japan and North and South Korea would have far more to fear than at present. The fact that China’s various geopolitical problems haven’t simply been crushed through military strength, and then brutally suppressed, speaks far more about the current state of the Chinese military than any claims from within China.

Over-Estimating China's Military Threat

There is only one way to find out how effective the chinese military is and that is to attack china.
There is no other way. You can play the guessing game over and over but that is all it will ever be, a guessing game.

They don't fight constant wars, so an actual war would be pretty experimental for them.

Yeah I read an article in the economist magazine last month about the PLA. They basically suggested that it would take around until 2030 for the military to conduct enough drills and run enough war games in order to get 'good' at military manoeuvres and tactics. It was a full front page spread and took up 4 pages of the magazine complete with stats and images of what looked like second hand Russian military vehicles.



... While that's funny, this also happens in every military organisation across the world and I think articles like this are misleading and perhaps deliberately downplay capabilities of a potential future foe; propaganda even.

First rule of combat; never underestimate your enemy.

We wont know until they fight an actual war.

Originally posted by ZIVONIC
We wont know until they fight an actual war.

Well, I hope no-one has to see it first hand.

They have considerable influence with North Korea and could probably convince NK to start something with us. This would both allow them a 'first hand' view of our tactics/intelligence and an assessment of the effectiveness of everything, weapons, technology and intelligence they provide NK. A war with us by proxy

reply to post by emberscott
Makes perfectly good sense. So how about I attack your house just to see how well fortified, strong, or prepared you are? How would that be? It's all fine and dandy when it's happening to someone else. China is nothing more than a pawn, the new headquarters of the scumbag "elite".

Let's keep in mind that citizens are usually not the problem when it comes to getting involved in wars. It's usually puppet governments acting on behalf of their self described "elite" masters (lazy, scumbag banker types and power brokers). People give the morons in government far too much credit. They're just not that smart! Take the scripts and teleprompters away, and they are usually bumbling idiots trying to sound as smart as they do when someone else is scripting for them. The time has come to make up a worlds most wanted list, with the bankers and their puppets at the top of the list. Take down a few of these trashbags and the rest will sing like their auditioning for American Idol.

One of the main purposes of the PLA is to keep the ruling Communist Party in power. This is what the Chinese military is trained for and they seem to do internal repression quite well. On that score as armed force against the civilian population of China they are very effective. The proof is that the Chinese Communist Party is still in power.

Who knows what would have happened if the PLA had not suppressed the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989 where a few hundred students were massacred for deigning to protest against the government.

Regards

There's been long standing misconception among westerners, particularly Americans, who believe China has a powerful military that could rival ours. I beg to differ.

Let's leave aside corruption and equipment and look at some basic aspects of military readiness.

Projection of Power:

China has a very large force. If one includes reserve components and paramilitary capabilities, you're looking at roughly 10 million personnel. Sounds scary right? Well, fielding such an army in a true war time scenario would be a logistical nightmare. Supply lines would be stretched for hundreds, if not thousands, of miles. The vulnerabilities of these lines would be nearly impossible to secure, let alone being able to transport the thousands upon thousands of pieces of equipment that would be necessary to keep a fighting force on the roll.

China cannot project power beyond it's immediate area. They have ONE aircraft carrier and while that may worry some ATSers, it does not worry me and here's why;
Satellite Takes Picture of Chinese Carrier on the Move

While Chinese carriers could challenge U.S. naval supremacy in Asia, China still has far to go in bringing such systems into play, experts said. The U.S. operates 11 aircraft carrier battle groups and its carriers are far bigger and more advanced.

The former Soviet Union started building the carrier, which it called the Varyag, but never finished it. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the carrier ended up in the hands of the Ukraine, a former Soviet republic.

China bought the ship from the Ukraine in 1998 and spent years refurbishing it. It had no engines, weaponry or navigation systems when China acquired it.

It's an outdated frame using technology that the Chinese developed. I completely disagree with the notion that Chinese carriers could threaten US Naval supremacy in the area, not now, not in the near to mid future.

Their air force lacks fifth generation aircraft, as well as the needed logistical support capability that would be required to project the power of that air force beyond it's immediate area.

Battlefield Experience:

China has a large and widely inexperienced force. Conscripted and poorly trained, lacking a goal oriented doctrine, and forward looking analysis by it's officers, who are also largely untested in combat. In reality China is simply a paper tiger, one match and it all goes up in flames.

Now if we add the high level of corruption and poor equipment to the mix, a lack of soldier fielded technology, and proper training doctrine, then we have a recipe for a large and losing war machine.

In short, China has a VERY long way to go before it can present a challenge on the battlefield.

reply to post by oghamxx


NK would get crushed and China would lose their puppet, never going to happen.

there are other ways to win a war
the chinese have noticed that the us has not won in iraq or Afgahnistan...and never will
( also the chinese know all about oil, and opium....remember the boxer rebellion? )

the chinese all ready have sovereign territory in the us
Im sure they can buy what guns can't take..
it's already paid for

stalin did OK with less then china has

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


What good is the puppet if you don't use it occasionally.

Before there would be US or South Korean troops on the ground in NK China would send in their forces to 'restore peace'.

Haven't looked in depth at the Chinese military. But I suspect it's a alot like the current Russian army.

I say the Russians, because they have 5 or 6 army brigades/ AF fighter Squadrons that have good, new equipment, that are supported logistically, with good training manned by contracted or volunteer soldiers, that, if push came to shove they could use in some sort of power projection/extension of national will. Those units probably couldn't defeat a Western Army, but could give them a serious run for their money, especially one on one. But there is only a couple of these units (at least in the Russian Army). The rest of the army is all draftees, in cadre units, with little training, with outdated (if even running) equipment. Nothing like handing an AK74 to a teenager, and telling them to go into battle in a 1970's BTR-70 or T-62/T-72, that's probably been sitting in a garage and cranked up twice a year to see if it runs. Yeah you could push around civillians or maybe a third world army, but a Western Force is going to send you packing.

Now, I am sure the Chinese (or Russians) could throw MILLIONS of these kids into the mix as true cannon fodder. But as far as real power projection.....1 to 2 decades off.

Once the word is given, the US, in approximately 96 hours (4 days) can have a complete USAF combat Air WIng, 2 to 3 Army Brigades, a reinforced Marine Battalion, and a carrier battle group, almost anywhere in the world. In two weeks they could have two to three times that force. No one can match that outside their own regional areas. In fact, I would say that only England, France, Russia, and India could come close.

reply to post by projectvxn


Exactly. While their army is massive they have a problem projecting their power.

Originally posted by emberscott
There is only one way to find out how effective the chinese military is and that is to attack china.

That would play to their strength. They wouldn't have to project their might. China in their own back yard? Even the US couldn't beat them then imo.

One thing we have to consider with the chinese military is their psychology and outlook are totally different from our western ideals.

true they are no match readiness wise for other militaries. However. China has historically never really invaded other countries. Yes there's Tibet and their drooling like angry dogs over taiwan breaking free. But historically they have always shut themselves out from the rest of the world. China is in general an isolationist country forced to go outside of the house and talk to their neighbors because they control their neighbors financial assets.

Given the choice they would be happy to not talk to anybody and just live in their borders. Because of this mindset the japanese were able to easily invade them because the chinese have no readiness to bring the battle to their enemies. they are basically flat footed and happy about it.

Besides the chinese look at strategy very different from us. We in the west see war more as a game of checkers. Slightly shortsighted. The chinese look at in the long term like chess. Not talking about military deployment but overall national strategy.

besides wasn't it Sun Tzu who said the best strategy is to win the war without firing a shot. Check out chinas tstrategy from that perspective and it looks like they are in actuality kicking the west's butt.

Strength in numbers, right? As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. To be successful in war in this day and age it doesn't HAVE to be done through guns, tanks, airplanes etc..

reply to post by oghamxx


You know China, in a large scale conflict, will not play by the same book as we do. They will use infiltration, subversion, and massive human wave tactics to gain an advantage. Their military is made of totally disposable and replaceable low-skill units for the most part, backed up by very skilled special forces.

In the Korean war, they managed to surround and dispatch many of our heavily fortified positions simply by being sneaky. This is before our companies started sending off every high-tech design they had to be manufactured in Chinese factories.

Also remember, the same things were said about Russia's ability before they kicked the snit out of the high-tech Georgian army a few years back. The military and intelligence analysts were floored than a couple of tank brigades were able to overrun the place in less than 24 hours. They also managed to kill a number of US made UAVs with missiles which were supposedly obsolete.

Underestimating an adversary is a really stupid and costly mistake.