America is not an Imperialist Nation

I am growing tired of reading about how people think we are. But that is one of the greatest things about freedom, you are FREE to say what you think.

I love my country, even though there are many times I do not agree with it's actions. I am FREE to express this view.

Ever been to the Middle East? I have. I will agree that there are people who don't want us there (Insurgents). But only a very small percentage of Iraq's population is thus. Allied forces had the exact same problem after Nazi Germany fell. What would have happened if America left before the country stabilize?

I am not normally one to attack a person(s), but if the European's feel that it's necessary to cut and run, so be it. America is there, America is making the sacrifice. May the sons and daughters of Iraq sleep well at night with the thought that there is an American making the sacrifice, and trying his / her best to bring to that country, what we here in America enjoy. FREEDOM.

To think this is a war of greed is to admit to a total lack of an education or rational thinking. America's oil prices are at an all time high, not to mention the fact that Iraq has it's own Oil Ministry.

To descredit the sacrifices of America's brave in this war is to side with the terrorists. Let's not forget who Sadam was.

America is taking the lead on ensuring that citizen's of all countries live in a world free of terrorism, facisim as well as oppression, just as it did 60 years ago.

I am thankful for the troops, and what they are doing.

Yea, look at the imperialist's.







EDIT: Spelling.

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

Soon, I'll bet dollars to donuts that someone will start posting pictures of kids with their hands tied, under guard by soldiers as well...

I'll agree that our goals aren't imperialist, but disagree with the idea that the majority of Iraqis want us there.

They don't. They did when Saddam was around, only because he was a ruthless tyrant, and a secular ruler. They DON'T want democracy, they want a theocracy. It's simply their way and desire. The "democracy" of Iraq is going to be a huge mess.

And yes, I have been to the middle east. In fact, lived there (Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) for over two years.

You lived there, I didn't. But may I ask you a question? In your opinion, which is better. Bear in mind that nothing is perfect.

My experience's in the region are not as CNN proclaim them to be.

EDIT: I often got thumbs up, and was invited to dinner many times. Whats your impression of the situation?

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

I agree Iraq wasnt attacked for oil.
but if the European's feel that it's necessary to cut and run.
What about the European troops helping rebuilt Afghanistan ?
America isnt the only countrie in Iraq Have you forgotton that the British run southern Iraq ? What about Australia and other countries that are helping rebuilt Iraq. With all do respect the European's were wise not to get involved in a naive attempted to reform the middle east.

[edit on 28-9-2004 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
I agree Iraq wasnt attacked for oil.
but if the European's feel that it's necessary to cut and run.
What about the European troops helping rebuilt Afghanistan ?
America isnt the only countrie in Iraq Have you forgotton that the British run southern Iraq ? What about Australia and other countries that are helping rebuilt Iraq. With all do respect the European's were wise not to get involved in a naive attempted to reform the middle east.

I am not a politician, nor a citizen of any of the nations in the EU. But when was the last time we heard of a beheading in Afghanistan? Not that the contribution in that region is any less, but what is the focus of the media right now?

The Labor Party in Britan is proposing a bill as we speak to pull Britons out of the country. Australia is not in Europe.

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

I do not know much about this war in Iraq because I stopped watching the news after March 2003 (Same thing over and over again- Iraq- Iraq- Some strikes and More Iraq) but I must say that it is naive of you to think that the "sons and daughters of Iraq sleep well at night".

Since the downfall of Sadam, Law and Order has collapsed. Ordinary folk are afraid to send their children to school for fear of them being kidnapped along the way and held for ransom. Murders and burglaries have sky rocketed and yet we dont hear about any of this on the news only of the poor Troops from America were "slaughtered" by evil insurgants.
I am not disrespecting the soldiers, its just that the people of Iraq and especially its children are suffering more than ever than they did at the hands of Sadam, in my opinion.

@crisko what are you talking about?!?!

Right firstly the current borders of the US were not the ones the union had at the beginning. Florida and a third of mexico was annexed to create the borders you have today. That sounds like imperial to me...

NEXT:
In 1890 something the US invades the phillipines... and cause untold misery and destuction. EVEN GENOCIDE.

This lead to the ANTI-IMPERIALIST LEAUGE being founded in the US, I only know one of its more prominent members Mark Twain.

So the US is NOT imperial...

[edit on 28/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by Lawnmower233
I do not know much about this war in Iraq because I stopped watching the news after March 2003 (Same thing over and over again- Iraq- Iraq- Some strikes and More Iraq) but I must say that it is naive of you to think that the "sons and daughters of Iraq sleep well at night".

Since the downfall of Sadam, Law and Order has collapsed. Ordinary folk are afraid to send their children to school for fear of them being kidnapped along the way and held for ransom. Murders and burglaries have sky rocketed and yet we dont hear about any of this on the news only of the poor Troops from America were "slaughtered" by evil insurgants.
I am not disrespecting the soldiers, its just that the people of Iraq and especially its children are suffering more than ever than they did at the hands of Sadam, in my opinion.

What are you basing this off of? Networks in America dedicated to ratings, or those elsewhere biased against us?

If you think they are "worse" off than before, I suggest you re-read the history of Iraq spanning the past few decades.

Originally posted by Corinthas
Right firstly the current borders of the US were not the ones the union had at the beginning. Florida and a third of mexico was annexed to create the borders you have today. That sounds like imperial to me...

NEXT:
In 1890 something the US invades the phillipines... and cause untold misery and destuction. EVEN GENOCIDE.

This lead to the ANTI-IMPERIALIST LEAUGE being founded in the US, I only know one of its more prominent members Mark Twain.

So the US is NOT imperial...

Polish up on your history, Florida was conqured by Spain. The border's of Texas were extended after Mexico invaded. Alamo?


[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

BTW last time i checked Florida was in the US what changed? the Us still gined that state by force.

Never mind the details it doesn't change my point much:


THS US IS AN IMPERIALIST NATION!!


[edit on 28/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by Corinthas
screw the detials it doesn't change my point now does it.


THS US IS AN IMPERIALIST NATION!!

Your opinion.

And that of Mark Twain et al.


Alamo... didn't the US provoke mexico with agent provocateurs deep inside their territiory?

Another one of those wars wich "they started"... come on bud.. the US has a bit of a pattern when i comes to blaming wars on EVERYBODY else.

The commies were supposed to be coming in Nicaragua and Viet-Nam too.

Bottom line the US is an imperialist nation and always has been!

[edit on 28/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by crisko
Polish up on your history, Florida was conqured by Spain. The border's of Texas were extended after Mexico invaded. Alamo?

Polish up on your history.

Handbook of Texas
On assuming the American presidency in 1845, James K. Polk attempted to secure Mexican agreement to setting the boundary at the Rio Grande and to the sale of northern California. What he failed to realize was that even his carefully orchestrated policy of graduated pressure would not work because no Mexican politician could agree to the alienation of any territory, including Texas.

Frustrated by the Mexican refusal to negotiate, Polk, on January 13, 1846, directed Gen. Zachary Taylor'sqv army at Corpus Christi to advance to the Rio Grande. The Mexican government viewed that as an act of war. On April 25 the Mexican troops at Matamoros crossed the river and ambushed an American patrol. Polk seized upon the incident to secure a declaration of war on May 13 on the basis of the shedding of "American blood upon American soil." Meanwhile, on May 8 and 9, Taylor's 2,200-man army defeated 3,700 Mexicans under Gen. Mariano Aristaqv in the battles of Palo Alto and Resaca de la Palma.

No America is not yet an imperalistic nation and thats the problem. Rather than attempting to coerce, convince, persuade, and cajole other countries into doing what is right we should just take them over. The world would be a much better place if the U.S. was an imperialstic nation.

Australia is not in Europe.
Perhaps I didnt make my point clear.
America is not the only countrie in Iraq if you believe what some people have said since the war in Iraq the USA has become some kind of lone ranger fighting the bad guys with the rest of the world to scared to act.
Anyone who believes this rubbish needs to get there head out of the sand.
After 9-11 the world answerd the call. If you want someone to blame for americas bag image blame Bush he had the world behind him untill he showed how naive he is.


[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

Mier Expidition, 1842 -1844

The Texas prisoners were at first sentenced to execution, but the execution order was later reversed. They were then held in the town of Matamoros until ordered to be moved to Mexico City. The Texans managed to escape their Mexican captors at the town of Salado on February 11, 1843. After much suffering, however, all but three of them were recaptured either individually or in small groups before they could make their way back to Texas.

The recaptured escapees, now totalling 176, were again sentenced to death by Mexican dictator Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. This order was subsequently reduced, however, so that one of every ten men, to be determined by lottery, were to be executed. In the lottery, which came to be known as the Black Bean Episode, seventeen of the unfortunate prisioners who drew black beans from a jar were blindfolded and shot.

Back on topic please.

[edit on 28-9-2004 by crisko]

Originally posted by crisko
Mier Expidition, 1842 -1844

It goes back before that:

Texas Revolution:
Misunderstanding was aggravated in the minds of Mexicans by the conviction that the United States government was not above making use of the colonists to cause trouble in the hope of acquiring Texas by purchase or revolution. Military incidents occurred in 1826, 1832, and 1835 preceding the decisive movement in the fall of 1835. In 1826, Haden and Benjamin W. Edwardsqv in East Texas attempted to inaugurate a war for independence (see FREDONIAN REBELLION) but were suppressed by Mexican soldiers supported by militia from Stephen F. Austin'sqv colonies.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by crisko
Mier Expidition, 1842 -1844

It goes back before that:

Texas Revolution:
Misunderstanding was aggravated in the minds of Mexicans by the conviction that the United States government was not above making use of the colonists to cause trouble in the hope of acquiring Texas by purchase or revolution. Military incidents occurred in 1826, 1832, and 1835 preceding the decisive movement in the fall of 1835. In 1826, Haden and Benjamin W. Edwardsqv in East Texas attempted to inaugurate a war for independence (see FREDONIAN REBELLION) but were suppressed by Mexican soldiers supported by militia from Stephen F. Austin'sqv colonies.

If you want to go over the entire history of Texas, we can. I am born and raised there. However, this is not about American History, rather current event's.

You lived there, I didn't. But may I ask you a question? In your opinion, which is better. Bear in mind that nothing is perfect.

I don't believe any one form of government suits all people.

Because religion isn't just a part of their lives, but IS their lives, theocracies work in the middle east, as far as the citizens are concerned. They do not BELIEVE that an individual should have a say in government, therefore they do not feel DEPRIVED of anything in a theocracy.

The problem in Iraq is that you have 3 different religious groups vying for control. Saddam's solution was to simply be a secular dictator. Not what the people wanted, but it was an effective solution. Like most dictators though, he got too big for his britches, so, out he went....

The only truly workable solution in Iraq is separate provinces of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis, effectively splitting the nation into three, each a theocracy. Since such theocracies could eventually lead to three anti-US regimes, that simply won't be allowed to happen obviously. The current idea is a ruling council and president, all elected. This could work, but only if the three main populations are EQUALLY represented. With sheer numbers, they AREN'T equal, therefore some kind of Electoral Vote system would have to be implemented to make sure that no one group (the largest population group) dominated always, and then enacted policies to force the others out.

It's a truly delicate balancing act, and one that Shrub is NOT up to task for. I'm not sure Kerry'd be much better at it either, so it's really just going to be a "wait and see" kind of thing....

@crisko
So easy to digress...

I notice you have COMPLETELY IGNORED the argument about the invasion of the Phillipines and the establish ment of the ANTI-IMERIALIST LEAGUE!


Texas shmexas... again the bottom line here is the US IS IMPERIALIST.

Go ahead say: "thats your opinion." but if all you can come up with in defence is nitpicking about the history of texas well i think you should adopt this opinion too.