Illegal Immigrant Gets Away With Homicide

Originally posted by Night Star
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.

Sure, but you do not have the right to pass your opinion off as facts and unless you are 100% native american, you don't have the moral solvency to judge the recent wave of immigrants.

ETA: Jobs don't belong to citizens. Would you care to show where there is any law that backs this claim or is it just another baseless claim?

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Night Star
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.

Sure, but you do not have the right to pass your opinion off as facts and unless you are 100% native american, you don't have the moral solvency to judge the recent wave of immigrants.

ETA: Jobs don't belong to citizens. Would you care to show where there is any law that backs this claim or is it just another baseless claim?

edit on 29-4-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Native Americans also fought amongst themselves for land. If you feel jobs should go to a foreigner before a citizen so be it. You know, you and I could go back and forth forever without really getting anywhere. Peace out.

reply to post by Night Star

I never said natives didn't fight. I said immigrants from every generation have acted in the same way as the present. You made the claim that jobs belong to citizens with nothing to back it up. Whatever I believe is irrelevant to the facts.

I already got where I wanted to, showing others that you have nothing but jaded opinion to offer.

reply to post by daskakik


Glad you're happy darlin'.

reply to post by Night Star

Actually my happiness is also irrelevant to the thread. What I do know is that the next immigration thread with half truths and errors will probably have you spreading the same baseless claims as this one. Actually saddens me a little that bigotry can be so ingrained but I guess Oliver Wendell Holmes said it best:

"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

I am not an expert in American law but... This person seems to have got off quite lightly, if the story of a hit and run is to be believed. If you run someone over and leave them for dead I would expect a custodial sentence.

However... is this crime made worse because it was committed by someone who is not a US citizen??

Would the family of the victim feel any better had they discovered that the driver was American?? Probably not... So why make a big deal out of the "illegal immigrant" bit... it’s almost as if this story is simply being used to bash illegal immigrants; which, in my mind, is exploiting a tragedy.

How sad that people have become so extreme in their views and polarised in their politics that common decency goes out the window just to prove a point.

Also seems a little ironic that a nation built on immigration now seems to have such a problem with it

The big deal is that this death could have been prevented. This man could still be alive today.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by LoneCloudHopper

 

Quite a contradiction you present.

I'm a writer and I don't live for money, I live for art.

Yet you are pointing out the money aspect of the issue.

I speak out against the travesties because it feels right.

But you seem to easily write off the plight of these illegals. They are not self serving they are filling the jobs that they are being offered. They are serving others.

I am not sure if there is something seriously wrong with your ability to comprehend things or if you know you're wrong and are just making desperate, child-like arguments to feel that you're still in the debate. It is not a contradiction to be bothered about criminals (rich and middle-class ones) destroying the economy to the detriment of the economy and its people. Get real.

No doubt some come to the States because they see the States as a rich country which doesn't mind illegals coming in and taking advantage. Some fail to see how messed up its economy is, having this false vision of the States as rich nation. I feel sorry for these ones, but when they understand the truth of the situation they should leave. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. But many continue breaking the law (stealing children's IDs for example) and even burning the American flag while they demand more!

All you have are weak arguments. If you don't believe in law or in any security for the borders you should explain why not. What's wrong with legal immigration? That way people are screened for diseases and criminal records. If the leaders felt that more immigrants could be used to fill jobs (which of course is not the case at present) then more immigrants could be allowed in. I already said that many immigrants are trying to get in through legal process. There is no excuse for those who break in. I also already pointed out that it costs thousands of dollars to do this.

They benefit from this illegal deal. The corporations benefit. The common people suffer, as usual.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Night Star
Regardless of exact numbers, too many lives have been lost period! Too many deaths that could have been prevented. It is not that here is no compassion for illegals who may have a tough life in a different Country, but there is a way to come here legally. All my ancestors except for the Native American ones, came here legally and with great respect for our Country. They learned the language of the land and didn't expect the Americans to speak their language just because they moved here.

Same old arguments. So what, many of the old waves of immigrants didn't have to do anything but give a name and many didn't learn the language, held strong to their old ways and they even killed american citizens. Now their grandchildren try to act like things were different.

Same old argument. Other people have done bad things so why not let these criminals do it? I'd like to hear a lawyer argue that in court. What the judge would say is what you need to grasp.

Originally posted by Muckster

However... is this crime made worse because it was committed by someone who is not a US citizen??

Would it be the same if someone who never broke the law broke it? Say, they beat someone up. Should the law treat them with the same degree of harshness as someone who's broken it previously? No, and usually police and judges are harder on repeat defenders. Someone who breaks into a country and then proceeds to break more laws should be treated more harshly.

Originally posted by Muckster

Also seems a little ironic that a nation built on immigration now seems to have such a problem with it

edit on 29-4-2012 by Muckster because: (no reason given)

There is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. We live in a civilized society of laws. I would not go to the UK and openly insult the queen or go to China and push my way through the crowds. When you go to a foreign country you respect its ways and customs. Its laws, that should go without saying.

reply to post by Night Star

There was one man whos' company I loved at work. He too was an illegal. He was humerous, sweet, interesting, kind, generous etc. I worked beside this man for 8 years and had much respect for him. It wasn't until one day I was checking to see where pedophiles lived in the area as I had a great nephew living in the apartment downstairs and was wondering. I was shocked beyond belief to see my former co- worker's face there in the files.

OMG, your good at this. You even managed to work in a pedophile association. Honestly woman! living in hate and fear this one is.
info on sock puppets and trolls.

One question; what causes immigration and who is to blame for the causes?
In Australia we find people from Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan floating around off shore all the time. Why do YOU think that is?

Originally posted by Night Star
The big deal is that this death could have been prevented. This man could still be alive today.

How could this have been prevented?

What would have stopped this woman? Be real specific here.

Originally posted by Night Star
The big deal is that this death could have been prevented. This man could still be alive today.

And what about all the death caused by American on Americans? How would you prevent them??

Stuff happens and you deal with it... you cannot use the crimes of a few to cast aspersions on many... its just stupid.

Deal with the individual story at hand... don’t pimp it up and parade it as some kind of flag for your own personal cause... That is unbecoming and makes you look like a bigot.

reply to post by LoneCloudHopper

They benefit from this illegal deal. The corporations benefit. The common people suffer, as usual.

I see that you flip flop from talking about you personally and the issue in general. The post that I answered was about people taking jobs that pay more and sending or taking their money home. Regardless of what it is that you would do, there is nothing wrong with doing that and most people would agree.

Same old argument. Other people have done bad things so why not let these criminals do it? I'd like to hear a lawyer argue that in court. What the judge would say is what you need to grasp.

Who said anything about this being a legal defense? The point is about the descendants of immigrants complaining about things that there own ancestors probably did as well.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by LoneCloudHopper

 

They benefit from this illegal deal. The corporations benefit. The common people suffer, as usual.

I see that you flip flop from talking about you personally and the issue in general. The post that I answered was about people taking jobs that pay more and sending or taking their money home. Regardless of what it is that you would do, there is nothing wrong with doing that and most people would agree.

Same old argument. Other people have done bad things so why not let these criminals do it? I'd like to hear a lawyer argue that in court. What the judge would say is what you need to grasp.

Who said anything about this being a legal defense? The point is about the descendants of immigrants complaining about things that there own ancestors probably did as well.

edit on 29-4-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Here you go again with silly arguments (accusing me of flip-flopping for trying to explain things to you.) You had the idea that I would only care about money, assuming that everyone thinks that way. I explained to you that I am not that way and not everyone is. Is that confusing to you?

I'm sure that most people would agree that working and going home is fine. The whole point here is that they are doing this illegally as well is breaking the law in a number of other ways, and what that’s doing to tax-paying, law-abiding citizens.

Honestly, at this point I really can't tell if you're serious or just a troll...

"Who said anything about this being a legal defense?"

Research points, arguments and debates. Did you go to school at all?

The point is what is legal and what is not. What is right and what is not. You still avoid my points and questions (either by flat our ignoring them and acting completely confused by them.)

Why do you believe in illegal immigration?
Why do you disagree with legal immigration?
If you think the borders should be open at what point do you think they should be closed? At a billion illegals, or ten..?
If laws are meaningless to you then how is a society to stay civilized, or are you an anarchist?

(I suppose now you'll accuse me of going-off subject by mentioning anarchy, right?)

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper
Here you go again with silly arguments (accusing me of flip-flopping for trying to explain things to you.) You had the idea that I would only care about money, assuming that everyone thinks that way. I explained to you that I am not that way and not everyone is. Is that confusing to you?

Actually no, but I am trying to express that it isn't specifically about you, so whatever it is that you would do is beside the point.

Research points, arguments and debates. Did you go to school at all?

Point? This isn't a court or debate so why compare my observations to arguments made by a lawyer or debater?

The point is what is legal and what is not. What is right and what is not. You still avoid my points and questions (either by flat our ignoring them and acting completely confused by them.)

Not to me. I already said that your points are valid but not pertinent to the present thread.

Why do you believe in illegal immigration?

Because it exists.

Why do you disagree with legal immigration?

Who said I disagree with it?

If you think the borders should be open at what point do you think they should be closed? At a billion illegals, or ten..?

I never brought this up so I fail to see your point.

If laws are meaningless to you then how is a society to stay civilized, or are you an anarchist?

Laws are meaningless, not just to me, if they are not enforced but in the story in the OP the laws were enforced.

Originally posted by daskakik
Actually no, but I am trying to express that it isn't specifically about you, so whatever it is that you would do is beside the point.

It was a response to a comment that you had made.

Originally posted by daskakik
Point? This isn't a court or debate so why compare my observations to arguments made by a lawyer or debater?

You were arguing that because people had done similar things in the past that it was alright to break in illegally, so I pointed out that two wrongs don’t make a right. If you break the law, you break the law. A judge would not listen to an argument that others have broken it too and therefore it's OK if you do. Do you understand this?

Originally posted by daskakik
Not to me. I already said that your points are valid but not pertinent to the present thread

Finally an admittance to your dishonesty. What points are no relevant/logical, hmm? That it’s illegal? That breaking the law is not alright if others do it? That it’s harming the economy and putting Americans out of work? I dare you to explain.

Truth is, you and your friends are just here to gang up on Night Star. I have no idea why. The others ignore me completely and your replies to me ignore my points. You literally call them “not pertinent”. A little honesty would do you some good.

Originally posted by daskakik
Because it exists.

You believe in illegal immigration because it exists? Was that a literal interpretation of the question or are you actually arguing that because people break into a country and violate its laws it’s alright to do so? Are you an anarchist?

Originally posted by daskakik
Who said I disagree with it?

Are you playing stupid here? I really think you are at this point. But I’ll pretend, for fun’s sake, that you aren’t: supporting illegal immigration means that you are against the system of legal immigration. Legal immigration means following the legal process. Illegal immigration means ignoring the laws therein.

Read on illegal immigration: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by daskakik
I never brought this up so I fail to see your point.

You are defending illegal immigration. You have brought it up by posting here, making multiple replies and debating in favor of illegal immigration. It’s a fair question: if you feel that illegal immigration is OK then do you believe that the borders should just open up for whoever wants to come in?

Originally posted by daskakik
Laws are meaningless, not just to me, if they are not enforced.

Most would agree that laws should be enforced, but since you are arguing in favor of illegal immigration I assume you mean that since it isn’t being enforced that much that it’s therefore legally, morally and logically OK? If so, that is about the most ridiculous argument that I’ve ever heard. If the law stopped enforcing laws against spousal abuse, child molestation or rape then that’d make these things OK too? I fail to grasp the logic in this.

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper
It was a response to a comment that you had made.

Yep but I meant it in general and not really you you. My mistake.

You were arguing that because people had done similar things in the past that it was alright to break in illegally, so I pointed out that two wrongs don’t make a right. If you break the law, you break the law. A judge would not listen to an argument that others have broken it too and therefore it's OK if you do. Do you understand this?

That isn't what I am arguing so you trying to make it clear for me is missing the mark.

Finally an admittance to your dishonesty. What points are no relevant/logical, hmm? That it’s illegal? That breaking the law is not alright if others do it? That it’s harming the economy and putting Americans out of work? I dare you to explain.

All of the above. The OP is about an illegal getting away with murder but the fact is that the law of Boston was enforced and she didn't get away with anything.

Truth is, you and your friends are just here to gang up on Night Star. I have no idea why. The others ignore me completely and your replies to me ignore my points. You literally call them “not pertinent”. A little honesty would do you some good.

I am being honest.

You believe in illegal immigration because it exists? Was that a literal interpretation of the question or are you actually arguing that because people break into a country and violate its laws it’s alright to do so? Are you an anarchist?

Literal. I never said it was right just that it happens.

Are you playing stupid here? I really think you are at this point. But I’ll pretend, for fun’s sake, that you aren’t: supporting illegal immigration means that you are against the system of legal immigration. Legal immigration means following the legal process. Illegal immigration means ignoring the laws therein.

You are defending illegal immigration. You have brought it up by posting here, making multiple replies and debating in favor of illegal immigration. It’s a fair question: if you feel that illegal immigration is OK then do you believe that the borders should just open up for whoever wants to come in?


Most would agree that laws should be enforced, but since you are arguing in favor of illegal immigration I assume you mean that since it isn’t being enforced that much that it’s therefore legally, morally and logically OK? If so, that is about the most ridiculous argument that I’ve ever heard. If the law stopped enforcing laws against spousal abuse, child molestation or rape then that’d make these things OK too? I fail to grasp the logic in this.

For these 3 see previous answer.

Update: "The Guatemalan illegal alien accused of running down a Waltham man in a crosswalk the night before Thanksgiving is back in state custody until she stands trial for Scott Coxall’s death."



www.bostonherald.com... d%2Fnews+%28News+%26+Opinion+-+BostonHerald.com%29

reply to post by Night Star

Just goes to show that the laws are being carried out. An immigration judge can't grant an immigration hearing if the illegal has pending criminal processes.

I thought that the judge my have ordered time served but it seems like people (lawyer, prosecutor and judge) don't even understand the law. She wasn't to be handed over until she was declared innocent or had served a sentence. I guess you think that this is also her fault and not the legal professionals.