Religion and BTS

There has been a rise lately in argumentative, baiting and divisive religious thread on BTS.
For me, BTS is a place for music, food, jokes, rants, chit-chat... and mainly fun.
It has now become worse than ATS for arguments, pettiness, nastiness and basically a pissing contest between religious and non religious people.

I just counted and there are 27 threads in recent posts in the Religion, Faith, And Theology forum...
The board is just clogged up with copies and repeats of the SAME tired argument.
I enjoy a good debate as much as anyone and am also as guilty as anyone of being stupid, argumentative and bullish in these threads.... but it's difficult when there are soooo many of them with the same people spouting the same hatred all the time.

Can something be done about this Staff/Owners?

Do we need BTS to be overrun with Religious arguments?

It was bad enough when people were leaving & threatening to leave because of the hatred and racism on ATS... but now it just seems the type of hatred and topic and location has changed... but the level of hatred and troll threads is exactly the same.

Can some of these threads be merged? Or moved to ATS?

We really don't need so many of the same topics on the part of the site that is supposed to be casual and fun and friendly and light-hearted.

BTS is being ruined by these threads.


"Atheists are soulless losers" "Religious folks are brain-dead Morons"


They're basically the titles and the level of discussion.


There is no debate to be had, nobody listens.... everybody sticks to their own belief and it just goes round and round and round and round.
Then someone new joins... and posts exactly the same thread again and off we go again.
You asked recently, ATS, whether things posted were "Good for ATS and its members" well I really don't think that these divisive threads, that nobody ever concedes in or gives any ground or listens.... are good for ATS.
Move these threads out of BTS and if there is any conspiratorial angle to them, put them in ATS.

But the threads like the couple I mention (although names have changed) can just be removed.

We do not need threads where the only purpose is to cause bad feelings and arguments among members.


There are many decent religious conspiracies that are discussed on ATS and they are some of the most fascinating topics.. but if you look through BTS at some of the crap on there, it's just embarrassing.

Hopefully someone at ATS (staff) would like to comment.

reply to post by blupblup

I know your wanting Staff to respond,but as a member I`d like to say a few things to this as well.

I do see what your saying blupblup and I`ve seen it happen quite a few times in the years here on ATS though it ebbs and flows,recently in BTS there does seem to be many faith topics more than normal.

Usually I think its mainly from particular members starting many multiple threads where some of the topics could have been incorporated into a few or reduced,if you know what I mean,(kinda hard to get out)

I also think the flag and star system generates this somewhat,as when a thread loses its initial attention it once had and the star and flags get less,then its time to start another,even though the other thread/s is still running.

The arguements and disagreements will always be with us,though sometimes change in people does happen.



My 2 cents anyway

reply to post by blupblup


I agree it has become very rough over there.

Have you tried hitting the pink minus sign on a Faith thread in the recent post list? It will remove all the threads in the F&R forum so when you're looking at the BTS recent post list, it's like they're not even there.

You're basically putting the forum on ignore. This works for any forum on ATS or BTS.

Because you can't have a religious argument without people attacking each other

reply to post by blupblup

As I understand it, the official distinction between the ATS main forum and "Off-topic" (previously BTS) is that the first is about conspiracies, and the second covers anything that isn't really conspiracy.
So moving religion into the main forum would go against that distinction.

I think what is really happening is that you are noticing religious threads more than you used to because there is now on Off-topic "Recent Posts" page. This means you that are seeing religious threads along with the rest, whereas previously you would not have seen them unless you deliberately entered the Religion sub-forum.
You can always "hide" individual sub-forums, you know. Then you wouldn't have to look at them.

Originally posted by gps777
reply to post by blupblup

 

I know your wanting Staff to respond,but as a member I`d like to say a few things to this as well.

Oh no.. I want everyone to comment and have their say.. I mainly said about staff because they are the only one's who can actually change anything, they can remove threads, combine them... have a word, move stuff to ATS etc.


That was all I meant.

,recently in BTS there does seem to be many faith topics more than normal.

Oh man... when I counted them I couldn't believe it... it's insane.

Usually I think its mainly from particular members starting many multiple threads where some of the topics could have been incorporated into a few or reduced,if you know what I mean,(kinda hard to get out)

That's exactly the problem.
Members who get annoyed and start another 3 threads about another thread.
It's ridiculous.... there's one such member doing this now/recently.. but yes, this is a common issue and one that I feel needs to be resolved.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by blupblup

 

I agree it has become very rough over there.

Have you tried hitting the pink minus sign on a Faith thread in the recent post list? It will remove all the threads in the F&R forum so when you're looking at the BTS recent post list, it's like they're not even there.

You're basically putting the forum on ignore. This works for any forum on ATS or BTS.

I'm aware of that feature but that doesn't solve the problem, It just ignores it.... and only for me.
That's not a particularly good way of solving any problem IMO.

Springer & SO posted recently about what is good for ATS and its members.
Baiting and trolling religious threads designed to attack either atheists or christians or jews or muslims... do NOT help or benefit ATS in any way shape or form.

I'm all up for a discussion and debate... but as I said.. when you're making purposely offensive threads in which you have no honest desire to discuss and debate... then that's where we have a problem.

ATS needs to deal with this, not ask people to just ignore it


Thanks

Totally understand. It doesn't fix the problem. The staff is discussing this elsewhere.

However, for the meantime, it can help calm things down for some while we try to work it out.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by blupblup

 

As I understand it, the official distinction between the ATS main forum and "Off-topic" (previously BTS) is that the first is about conspiracies, and the second covers anything that isn't really conspiracy.
So moving religion into the main forum would go against that distinction.

Except that's not what I said.

I said move any religious threads that have a conspiratorial angle into ATS and combine, delete and organise the others so we don't have 30 threads in recent posts that are just the same thing over and over and over.

I don't want religion banned... or to stop anyone talking about religion on BTS..... that's not even remotely what I'm saying.

I just want to stop the rise in deliberately offensive threads made by religious folks and atheists where the only purpose is to cause a massive argument and offend each other as much as possible.

The racist threads soon stopped after the owners stepped in... things calmed down and there has been less and less of these stupidly offensive, nasty, racist and bigoted threads.

A similar things needs to be said/done regarding these threads in BTS.

That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Totally understand. It doesn't fix the problem. The staff is discussing this elsewhere.

However, for the meantime, it can help calm things down for some while we try to work it out.

Much appreciated and I understand what you mean.

Cheers

A completely different section for religious and esoteric discussions would be nice IMO. Not on BTS or ATS.. but maybe some section for this in particular. I got bored a few yrs ago with the religious topics.. they seem to be all the same : bashing and rebashing. Lately there have been a few of interest, I click the thread.. and yep : bashing and rebashing. It seems to be impossible for some to have a civil convo concerning religion and the inability of some of the religious to keep hate out of their arguments.

Meh, to each his or her own.. Ive kind of given up on a conversation in those threads. Someone needs to tell a few the arent getting a better seat in heaven just by arguing biblical points on ATS.

reply to post by AshleyD


I mean, it's not that I hate religious guys. They have the right to speak, like everyone else. But could we not make three topics: Conspirations, Off-topic, and... Religions?
That way we could let religious folks express themselves but we won't be overflooded in the Off-topic because of them.

reply to post by Advantage




I agree actually.
An entirely separate place... kinda like RATS or something but without it being hidden... I dunno.
But yes, a separate place that doesn't clog up the boards.

I'm really not sure how you'd do it though.


I'm not even sure now I think about it that that is what's needed.

I just think tougher scrutiny of threads posted and perhaps each thread in the religion forum has to be approved or looked over to make sure it serves a purpose, other than to attack, troll and bait members.

It needs the mods to go over the threads and just combine some... move all the replies and posts into some of the others that have been posted. It's mostly all repeated anyway.

reply to post by blupblup


Thanks for bringing this up.
Only yesterday i got involved in a thread entitled "Atheism promotes Nihilism", started by a person I won't even name. There was no question mark in the this title, but in the OP, the author turned it into a question.

Asking such a question is valid. It could be the start of a debate. However, this wasn't the intention of the author, not at all. The intention clearly was to harass atheists, using a disgusting "soft friendly voice" to call atheists all kind of names.
I tried to be informative in my replies, trying to show the assumption included in the title wrong based on my own way of life and daily actions. Of course the author decided not to deal with that, as it would force him to stop his game.

Even after I decided to stop reacting to his provocations, that person continued his harassment, using a reply I gave to someone else who addressed the implicit arrogance and verbal violence of the author. I couldn't escape the impression that this Disciple of the Lord just wants this: to provoke others.

I sent a complaint without any decent reaction from the mods, on the contrary. A post from a mod appeared, calling for some decency (I applaud this) while at the same time a funny picture from someone else who opposed the symbolic violence of the self-declared specialist in all matters theology.

This made me very angry so I wrote a second complaint that remained unanswered. Since then, part of me is trying to convince the other part (do i sound mentally ill now?) not to close my account. I'm afraid this will happen after all, as no decent action is taken against christians who think it is their right to harass people who differ.

I'm an atheist. I'm a sociologist. Some call me an intellectual.
I'm a proud atheist.
I have no issue at all with people who decide to belief. That's their decision, it's their life. As long as that decision doesn't impact my quality of life, that's fine. Luckily I'm an European. While christians over here still have a lot of power, at least their impact on political decisions has been erased, replaced by humanism.

I would really like to learn from the staff of ATS (people I do respect and appreciate for their engagement in trying to keep this a decent website) what their position is. From what I understood, a discussion is going on so I will wait in patience until a resolution is known.

Sure, when atheists and believers enter a debate, the heat might be on. That's fine. As long as it is a debate. Lately that debate is being obscured, replaces by arrogant bashing. So, dear folks at ATS, please come up with a solution. Please stop these people, if only because they spoil opportunity for sincere christians to bring across their vision.

Sorry for this long, pretty inconsistent reply. I feel emotional about this. Maybe one day I'll explain why. Most likely I will just close my account and leave ATS to these people. Too bad for all the others who try to make ATS the best place to discuss out of the box.

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by AshleyD

 

I mean, it's not that I hate religious guys. They have the right to speak, like everyone else. But could we not make three topics: Conspirations, Off-topic, and... Religions?
That way we could let religious folks express themselves but we won't be overflooded in the Off-topic because of them.

I second that suggestion.

I did describe other alternatives, although I do take into account that the technological platform this site is running on might turn this pretty difficult to implement.
The idea is to have two kinds of "moderation":
1. the first one is the one we are familiar with: mods continue their great (well, most of the time) job in keeping this a nice place to be. Their actions impact all.
2. the second one is a personal kind of moderation. Instead of being confronted with someone who's only intention is to annoy, harass, insult you, you simply indicate you don't want to see any more posts from that person. Of course, this impacts only you. All the others can still access whatever it is that person writes.
This would have a profound impact on the level of flames and will eventually assist mods in their jobs as the amount of corrective actions will decrease. It would also help them to distinguish and notice those who prefer to flame instead of contributing to a debate.

reply to post by blupblup


It seems sometimes the BTS section is used as a trash can for the religious threads from the main page. Also i try to remember that the site is frequented by mostly American users. Outside of the Middle East, America is one the most religious countries on the planet. So there is bound to be lots of fundamentalist fighting , what they perceive to be the good fight.

It's a shame, if religion was used correctly and they all used the mutually beneficial practice of co operation, maybe some real positive changes in the world could be made. Instead it's all about infighting and claiming one belief superior to another.

Tis getting out of hand. I respect that people are passionate about these things but really, it just looks like a flan flinging contest. Is there a prize for having the most bible quotes in one post or something?
But like I said yesterday, it's only going to get worse. I'm sure we all appreciate that the Mods are paying attention to it though. I'm just not sure how it's going to be achievable.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes


My belief is that people can discuss differences without expressions of hatred, and/or bias. I think if the intention becomes clear that a person who makes a thread created it for purposes of bashing others with different beliefs/thought processes that it should be locked.

I have never minded explaining my beliefs to others, actually I am happy when people come to me with questions because they want to learn something or question any aspect legitimately. I am sure you, and everyone else feels the same. But you are correct, this is not what is being done.

I think it is less since the site owners gave warnings, and they have mainly kept it to the religions forums of late, and it is nice not to come to ATF everyday and be bombarded with hatred of others' beliefs because it is not their own. At least it is in a different section, and I do not have to see it

(thank you ATS owners for that!)

But these people are extremists, this is how I would categorize them, and western society is quite full of them. So I would doubt any forum will be free from insanity.

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes
reply to post by blupblup

 

Thanks for bringing this up.
Only yesterday i got involved in a thread entitled "Atheism promotes Nihilism", started by a person I won't even name. There was no question mark in the this title, but in the OP, the author turned it into a question.

Asking such a question is valid. It could be the start of a debate. However, this wasn't the intention of the author, not at all. The intention clearly was to harass atheists, using a disgusting "soft friendly voice" to call atheists all kind of names.
I tried to be informative in my replies, trying to show the assumption included in the title wrong based on my own way of life and daily actions. Of course the author decided not to deal with that, as it would force him to stop his game.

Thank you BOTH, blupblup and Eyes, for bringing this to the bbq forum. It's a big issue.

I would really like to learn from the staff of ATS (people I do respect and appreciate for their engagement in trying to keep this a decent website) what their position is. From what I understood, a discussion is going on so I will wait in patience until a resolution is known.

Thanks to AshleyD for that, also. I hope some remedy can be devised.

Sorry for this long, pretty inconsistent reply. I feel emotional about this. Maybe one day I'll explain why. Most likely I will just close my account and leave ATS to these people. Too bad for all the others who try to make ATS the best place to discuss out of the box.

*panicky* No, nono! please, don't go!!

I'm a sociologist, too, a humanist, universalist, whatever, although not an atheist. There are some very interesting new members, too, and I'm afraid of all of the quality posters in that forum (and C in R) are going to leave!!

It's members like you and blupblup that keep it from becoming like a middle-school facebook flamefest...there are other very worthwhile contributors, but some have already left (sadly), and the belligerence needs to stop...

For what it's worth, I hope we start seeing more thoughtful, intelligent, open-minded discussion, not less quality!!

Ack.
I got rattled, too, and this morning I alerted staff, and by the time I got back to the thread, two M/D warnings had been issued and the thread closed. Good.
Now...let's get back to discussions...
our other option is to go to Philosophy...seems to be more real conversation over there.