Veneration of the pagan sun god in the beast's mark vs God's mark and seal : powerful video sermon

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posted on May, 3 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Would you also agree that the 'fault' in the old covenant was not in the 10 commandments themselves but in the terms of the agreement on the object of the 10 commandment that the people themselves could not keep them in their own strength?

Considering the fact that Psalms 19:7 tells us 'The law of the LORD is perfect'. Is your answer a yes?

And you would agree that Jesus was under the law and had to fulfill it perfectly or else he would not have been an unblemished sacrifice in our place acceptable before the Father ( I am trying to determine what the point you were trying to make citing Matthew 12:1-14 when it only supports my case and not yours)?

Because to me it seems like you are citing texts with a couple of key words that support your current stance with little understanding of what the full meaning of the passage entails.
edit on 3-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)


I understand all too well of the context and the symbolism. The moral of the story is he desires mercy and not sacrifice. Again, i will say to you that a specific sabbath day was never mentioned anywhere in the bible. The "sabbath" is the day you rest on from your labors. If you work 6 days you take the 7th one off.

You keep ignoring my question of "what are Yeshua's commandments?", after the 4th time asking i am going to say that you yourself do not know.

I'll tell you what day the Sabbath is. It's the day Yeshua was crucified for our sins. That day he became our Sabbath Day. Again i urge you to stop judaising. You cannot hold onto the old covenant and have the second covenant. The fact that you do not know that our God became our Sabbath troubles me.

Yeshua fulfilled those laws...by becoming them.

This source may help, but i have doubts about that
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Source

Yeshua is our God, it is his commandments you must keep, and he didn't keep those jewish laws, he broke them constantly which is why the pharisees kept accusing him of doing what was not lawful. He had authority to break them because he is the one who created them.

Since you keep ignoring the Council of Jerusalem, i will post it here for you to read:

Acts 15

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.

3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

The Jerusalem Council
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[ from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[e] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[f] —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

Continuing Ministry in Syria
30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement. 32 Now Judas and Silas, themselves being prophets also, exhorted and strengthened the brethren with many words. 33 And after they had stayed there for a time, they were sent back with greetings from the brethren to the apostles.[h]

34 However, it seemed good to Silas to remain there. 35 Paul and Barnabas also remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

Division over John Mark
36 Then after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us now go back and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they are doing.” 37 Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark. 38 But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work. 39 Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. And so Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus; 40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, being commended by the brethren to the grace of God. 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

So, basically by saying we have to keep the laws, you call the Holy Spirit a liar. You mock God. Thats blasphemy that can't be forgiven. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
edit on 3-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Isaiah 56:6,7 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

NEW COVENANT BRO, FOR THE GENTILES AS WELL!!!

Read a Bible commentary on the verses if you don't understand

Isaiah 58:13,14
"If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

NEW COVENANT BRO

You don't even recognize what it means to have the law written in your heart. It means to put the desire in there that your will is in harmony to live God's laws

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

I asked whether the Holy Spirit 'does' or 'can' fulfill the commandments of God in you to make you righteous. The verse in Jude clearly points out that the answer is 'can' and not 'does'

That is why in Philippians 4:13, were are told "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me"

The fault in the Old covenant was that there was no forgiveness component in it and the people did not realize that they would not be strong enough to keep it. That is why the Spirit is given to us to that we can call upon to strengthen us if we are feeling weak, it doesn't complete the 10 commandments for us like we are on autopilot or something. It warns/convicts us of danger and temptation but if we turn from this warning then NO, righteousness departs from us and to be made clean again me must repent of our sin.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The 'walk' requires action on our parts and we can definitely walk away from the spirit, even if we believe Jesus is the Christ.
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You don't even know your history....the covenant was made about 40 days before they transgressed it with idol worship. The 10 commandments were already well understood before they needed to be written down in stone on Sinai. They were understood from the beginning. Please the the difference between a covenants (relating to terms and conditions of an agreement) and the Commandments (the Divine law of God which was the object of both new and old covenants, with different terms/conditions attached)
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You make a big deal about me being some kind of Jew like it is a derogatory thing....Ah, so who was the new covenant made with again??? 'with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah'
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Let's see what happened after the breaking of the first covenant as I come to answer your suggestion that Yeshua broke the 4th commandment in your Matthew 12: 1-10 passages. (If he broke that commandment then what he did on the cross was for nothing!)


As the Jews departed from God, and failed to make the righteousness of Christ their own by faith, the Sabbath lost its significance to them. Satan was seeking to exalt himself and to draw men away from Christ, and he worked to pervert the Sabbath, because it is a sign of the power of Christ. The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions. Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.

When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.283, p. 284



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.

If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.

Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.

Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.

Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.284, p. 285, p. 286


Continue reading p.286 and 287 for the response on the healing of the man's hand if need be
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Sorry for not answering your question on what Yeshua's commandments are (for the 4th time)...I thought the answer was so obvious it was a rhetorical question. ANSWER: We show our faith, love and obedience to God by keeping the 10 commandments (which is His Divine Law under which the angels in heaven are under right now, and which was understood by us from the time of the garden of Eden and which we will be subject to for all of Eternity) and receive his grace and mercy of forgiveness when we sincerely repent our transgressions of those laws and earnestly strive to remain in Him.

Your whole argument about the Council of Jerusalem is pointless, I am referring to the Divine Laws which the council never abolished.
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Your contention:


The "Sabbath day" is just a prophetic allusion to The Rest in his Millenial reign and the New Heaven and New Earth.


Let's see,


"The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20

The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6."
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281, p. 282


Merely alluded to the Rest that is our time in the New Heaven and New Earth?

Isaiah 66:22-23
(22) For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
(23) and it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

This text proves you are incorrect yet again. The Sabbath is continued to be kept on a weekly basis (which is how long each Sabbath takes to come around) in Heaven then again in the New Earth just how it is expected to be kept now. If you understand the promises of our eternal inheritance you will know that we will have a city residence (in the heavenly city, which will also come down on the New Earth) and a country residence. It is required of us in the Heaven and again on the New Earth to meet in the heavenly city both once a week to participate in Sabbath worship of God and to be there each new moon (also meaning once a month) to participate in the eating of the fruit of the Tree of Life which produces fruit 12 times a year (or once a month/each new moon).
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Your argument:


"The 4th commandment didn't establish a particular day of rest, just that we should rest from our labors after 6 days of work, to take a day to enjoy for ourselves. Genesis doesn't name what particular day he rested on, nor did he tell the Israelites what day they should rest on"


Names for Saturday in Many Languages Prove Which Day Is the True Sabbath
Arabic: Sabet
Armenian: Shabat
Bosnian: Subota
Bulgarian: Sabota
Corsican: Sàbatu
Croatian: Subota
Czech: Sobota
Georgian: Sabati
Greek: Savvato
Indonesian: Sabtu
Italian: Sabato
Latin: Sabbatum
Maltese: is-Sibt
Polish: Sobota
Portuguese: S ábado
Romanian: Sambata
Russian: Subbota
Serbian: Subota
Slovak: Sobota
Slovene: Sobota
Somali: Sabti
Spanish: Sabado
Sudanese: Saptu
Ukranian: Subota

source :www.ucg.org...

www.seventh-day.org... - Please see this link, shows exactly which day the Israelites should rest on
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"The fact that you do not know that our God became our Sabbath troubles me."


No, Christ did not become our Sabbath....in the context you provided in your link to Matthew chp 11 for 'rest' meaning cessation of any motion, business or labor. You cannot just say Jesus is our rest inferring we now go on autopilot through life. At the moment you are quite out of touch of what the Sabbath means to God so I would not try labeling Him with something when you don't know the meanings.
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There is error in every single argument you made against the obligation to keep the Sabbath commandment still today and shows you are reading into scripture what you want to be there, which really isn't there. I hope that you will look into what I have said sincerely and that the Holy Spirit will convict your heart of its truth.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


I am working on your post...sorry for the delay...I am doing a reasonably extensive reply...I will try send some of it through soon and the rest within the next day or so



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Hey Autowrench thanks for the reply...I'll do a partial reply now just to get some info out there for you to read and complete the reply hopefully later today, just so you're not waiting too long

Great post, I always like a participant!!....although a couple comments in your post suggest you still might not have read fully my answer to your question yet or did the follow up read of chapters 3,4 and 5. Common autowrench, you're supposed to be on a campaign of 'learning' haha

First thing, I don't represent 'mainstream' Christianity. If you follow the posting between Lonewolf and I, our basic discussion is concerning the nature of the new covenant that 98% of Christianity, the mainstream, is in error of understanding. Their stance that the 10 commandments no longer apply and that we should not be legally judged against them is incorrect. When the Catholic church says:


“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.


If you know that other smaller denominations as well also keep the Sabbath day which the Catholic church could have mentioned but didn't really means what they are saying is that they know every doctrine and scriptural understanding we officially espouse is 100% backed up by the scripture of the Bible, and they would know because it is often directly opposite to theirs and they are the ones that spread their teachings to the other denominations to take on board. In areas such as the state of the dead (like a sleep, no conscious state), the investigative judgment, Arch Angel Michael being Jesus ('The one who is what God is', God's highest message is Jesus...although I hear this is taught in the occult as well, but I don't think any other Christian denomination teaches it), the mark of the beast, end-time prophecy interpretation, teaching on hell (that God merely sends flames to burn you until you are consumed and there is nothing left, that's it, like stubble or ashes, the consequences of your actions are eternal not the burning) ect... So if you agree with all the theological standings of the SDA church then you can consider yourself with a high enough working knowledge of the bible to equal me haha. Jokes

Actually I would only rate my working knowledge about a 2 or 3 out of 10 compared to people in my Church, who knows, you might be higher
Knowledge understanding and implementation though are three different things.

Hmmm, well it appears from what you have told me so far that your level of knowledge in Wicca is at a level that is not past the third degree, so you haven't been initiated into insider knowledge as yet.

I have to ask you, why is it at the highest levels of both Wicca and Roman Catholicity that they cooperate together and are the best of friends? News to you right! It is because at the highest levels they worship the same deity and have a very similar structure. Let me explain briefly then will send you some info to follow up on that might shake up your paradigm a bit. At the highest levels of the R.C.C Mary is worshipped as the goddess Isis (Mary with baby is Isis and Horus). If you know your bible knowledge well then you would know that all the teachings about Mary being elevated to the level Holy and our mediator (mediatorix) is against scriptural teaching. You will also know that according to the bible as well what the accurate state of the dead is, so why is it that they have saint this and saint that, that is veneration of the dead. In Wicca on the other had they have the goddess as well (Diana a common form....to the insiders it is one and the same) and spirit guides and fairies (that take the role of the saints) ect..

I would suggest getting through some of the background history of this guy first but I will send you to a site hosting audio tapes of an ex-illuminati member who was initiated past the 3 commonly understood degrees of Wiccan (as there are 3 more degrees above that where the actual insider knowledge is kept). He came from one of the highest occult families in America, the 'Collins' have who are very much credited to bringing the craft to the US shores.

Audio Tapes of former illuminati top wiccan occultist John Todd (aka Lance Collins)

So listen to tape 5A and/or 6A first. Then once you know a bit about him and some of the knowledge in Wicca that has been kept hidden from you, you might understand why Christianity would reject the mythological ancient history.
edit on 5-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Go to Tape 5B, at the 27:30 minute mark when he starts talking about how the Catholic mass is basically a mirror of witchcraft or vice versa.

Go to Tape 2B, at the 12:30 minute mark where he describes his own sister who was the queen witch of Ohio would perform rituals and call up the spirits and they would buzz the skies with everyone thinking they are UFOs.

I tell you why Christianity might reject the supposed history that ETs first came to our planet as gods to start us off, because the witness accounts of people who have been involved in an Alien Abduction experience that have been able to stop it part way through have done so by calling on the name of Jesus (hmmm, yes that weak piss-ant who never/doesn't exist you might think) to help them and the 'Alien ETs' (fallen angels of Lucifer) go and piss off (when it is commonly misunderstood that during such experiences they have you under a kind of paralysis and you can't do anything about it). Have a good look around these sites to confirm my statements :
CE4 FAQ
How to make the ETs Stop!

When we find out that similar tales of ancient history and ET involvement as described in books series like the 'Earth Chronicles' was written by a Jesuit on behalf of the Vatican based on manuscripts the Vatican are gatekeeper of in their Library (prob via the Library of Alexandria) we can see how RELIABLE the source is and how much trust to put in it. When it comes to reading things from Jesuits the best thing to do with whatever conclusions you are lead to surmise from the text is to reverse it and you might be somewhat closer to the truth!!! haha (same thing with Teilhard de Chardin writings)

When we read in books like 'Final Events and the secret government group on demonic UFOs and the Afterlife' by Nicholas Redfern about top occultist Jack Parson and the Babalon Working ritual from Chapter 3: 'Be Careful they Bite', we start to get a pretty clear understanding of what we are dealing with when it comes to ETs, UFOs and where they come. I would highly recommend getting that book.

When we read that mediums, witches/wizards, necromancers who undertake an exorcism end up losing all 'their' powers they believe they have innately developed from ancient knowledge it just goes to show where the source of all their ESP, magic and messages comes from.

For me it is sad that these 'religions' give out deliberately misleading information to their people below them, having them chasing their tails trying to prove Lucifer is Jesus or Lucifer is just a made up thing by the Christians while as soon as you get taken in form the outer temple into the initiates they say, 'we were actually telling you some fibs before, we actually worship Lucifer directly and the UFOs/ETs are summoned by us'. Hmmmmm not too fun or fair if people's paradigms are based on such lovely white-lies huh.

Why have people's heads to the ground chasing tails having them think the Bible is actually based on lies and myth?

So people don't have the opportunity to look up and see:

- The destroyed cities of Sodom and Gomorrah found
- Mount Sinai found
- Red Sea exodus crossing escape from Egyptians found...with axels and wheels from the Egyptian chariots found underwater
- Jesus' blood discovered in the ground of the vertical foothold that bore the cross. The blood contains 24 Chromosomes only, 23 from Mary and a 'Y' Chromosome from His Father to determine gender, oh and the blood is STILL ALIVE! (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

They don't want you to look up and read:
- The Case for a Creator

That shows irrefutable science confirming the creation shows absolute design, the origins of life and the theory of the universe is CAN'T be explained by Big Bang and Evolutionary theory, but is perfectly explained by the Genesis account of an intelligent designer. Extremely good book I recommend.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


- The Case for the Real Jesus

The biggest criticisms against the historical account of Jesus are investigated and answered by experts interviewed accounts numerous specifics of study. Another book like this is called "The Case for Christ" written by the same guy but the first he did in the series when we was still an atheist out to 'prove' that Christianity was based on BS, his investigation converted him to Christianity, opps! (based on the reviews and length of book, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, by Gary R. Habermas would be a better bet fully covering the resurrection of Jesus question rather than that presented in Lee Strobel's book 'The Case for Christ' which is the book I read on it and it was good enough for me, but then again he was already preaching to the converted! haha

They don't want you to watch:
- The Genesis Conflict series by a Professor of Zoology Dr. Walter Veith (he WAS an atheist and taught evolutionary theory for a long time until he started to question the seriousness of the fossil record and lack of transitionary species. Now he is kick-arse pastor in the Adventist Church and has put out another excellent series called, 'Total Onslaught' which is comprised of 36 1:30 Hour or so long videos, that will destroy your paradigm of religion (although confirm your rightful disgust in the Roman Catholic Church) then have you built up into the truth within short order)

Who will destroy the S#&@ out of your paradigm against the creation account, destroy evolutionist, prove the Universal flood, prove creation, destroy long date theories of earth age ect ect.
Genesis Conflict Series

All the videos are available to watch for free and can be found on youtube as well.

Well I am personally inclined to believe there might be some truth to some of these 'ancient stories and myths' that they might have actually happened to some degree or another. The one that comes to my mind the most is Atlantis. For me it isn't an important topic though. What are we going to learn from them? That they were an advanced society that roamed before the human faculties had become as degraded as they have now, that they worshiped Satan, received technology from the fallen angels posing as gods, that God was disgusted with them and all the power of their gods and technology and ancient wisdom did not amount to squat as one click of the fingers from God sent the universal flood that swept the world and wiped them off the map (maybe at the bottom of some oceans waiting to be discovered).

I will try address some of your other thoughts in another post soon, that should be enough to digest and follow up on now though, I hope my shield wasn't too blunt for you.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 

Dr. Walter Veith
Is not an Adventist pastor.
He has some foundation which supports his lectures but it is a private corporation, not the Adventist church.
He preaches an adventist type message, where he brings up the second coming, but he is a little too far off the deep end to be recognized as representing the church.
I don't support him personally because I believe the organization he is involved in is Zionist and is so, anti-Christian.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


seems like a cool video... though right around 2:15 into part one he exclaims "we are going to proceed in a linear fashion"

linear is not logical imo atleast 50% of the time... should I continue watching?

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at anyrate I couldn't make it past 5:mins... the Mark of the Beast is Idolatry of a Human.

the Pope gives it to his adherents on a regular basis.

edit on 5-5-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Statements from the Catholic Church:


“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” — Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.


See how it is making an idol out of a man....read my exchanges between Lonewolf establishing God's mark and Seal on page 2 and my long post to him on page 3 establishing the legal basis of the 4th commandment still being in affect.


“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.


I would encourage you to watch the sermon through....the guy explains things well through logical detective work through the bible solely but I expand on the premise of what he says vastly in my posts in the thread as well
edit on 5-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Pastor, preacher...I will accept the correction

Oh course Veith doesn't represent all of SDAs all the time (given only a very targeted message he is given out in the Total Onslaught series) but he represents me perfectly. I am sick of a softly softly approach in the church. I am so happy to hear someone present truth and have it explain the entire world situation down to the level of the specific groups involved which do all that they can to remain VERY secret. You will see from my approach with autowrench and Lonewolf a very stern approach to revealing the errors and deception of people's ways that have been incorporated into their belief-systems. In light of what I perceive to be the world on the cusp of Satan's grand ends days deception where he comes presenting himself physically to counterfeit Jesus' second coming in order to implement the mark of the Beast system, I think it is now more important than ever to take on this tough love approach to our brothers and sisters especially when it is our commission, knowing what we know, to do it. If people are under a deceived paradigm we should clearly point this out to them. It is up to them to decide what to do next and that is where we hope the Holy Spirit reaches their heart and convicts them of that truth presented. The message is to come out of Babylon and apostate religion, it needs to be cutting....'come out of them and be separate'. We need to develop strong back bone, tough skin and immense trust in God if we are to give this message during the tribulation period when we will be classed as outlaws, our very characters attacked, subject to real threat of imprisonment and death while expected to give out the three angels messages to the masses of people how don't know it.

I take it that you are claiming to be under the Adventist banner again jmdewey60 since our exchanges earlier this year where I believe your stance was not so rosy.....if so, it is good to hear

Just an answer to your reply on the New Age Jesus thread, I will keep it here so that others might not see the answer just yet.

- Jesus' feet never touch the Earth on his second coming, we are called up to the air with Him then proceed to the Heavenly city for 1000 years before returning to earth (which is when Jesus' feet finally touch the earth again, at the mount of Olives if I an not mistaken)
- Then there are numerous verses saying how God's commandments never change ect as well...find the info more thoroughly at this post I made

I would appreciate your comments on the case I made to Lonewolf on the legal basis to still be judged under the 4th commandment on this page, page 3....most of his opposition questions are presented on the 2nd page of this thread though...I am a bit new to defending my faith in posts and had not taken a serious look at all the this/that covenant talk before which is evident in some of my posts on page 2, but I knew the Adventist position was in truth so in the past couple of days I was able to get quite a bit of research done to find what I needed to find to establish the legal basis as well. Have you got any tips how I can improve my arguments?
edit on 5-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


so Protestantism is the Beast?

makes sense I suppose... though I do not think that is a valid argument against the pure version of Christianity.

on the other hand with the Pope being an idol and all claiming he is Gods voice on earth just doesn't sound right, something doesn't add up there because only Jesus was Gods voice on earth and he was Crucified by someone just like the Pope but more like a wannabe.

There is some strange stuff happening in Catholicism to be just coincidence... I was reading recently on christian science monitor and I was taking a quiz about their practices... one thing really shook me about the communion too was that they became (ingested) the blood and body of Christ! this was some weird stuff man and totally beyond me... I guess just no one explained them to me in enough detail, including the Pope himself (does he ever speak?)

I did like the traveling Pope though, he was a bit different but at that point I thought we all shared one and the same ideals and that catholics were just a little more full-time into it... boy I couldn't have been more wrong.

The truth sailed over to the new world with the settlers... here the fire remains



I'll give the video a closer look this evening when I can sit down with it... I just will not accept that the Pope is the only way to know God nor do I accept in anyway that he is holier than thou (or the next fellow human for that matter)

the warnings against Catholic establishment and even the British church state are imbedded in most all of our music, so if school doesn't drill it in well enough (here in the states) then the music itself will teach one... from out of the rocks it rolls right into the psyche. (kinda makes me wonder why they originally called Rock & Roll that in the first place? where did the rock expression come from... when surely it doesn't mean to swing and sway to the music, they have another expression for that)

I doubt I'll ever understand Catholicism because I just haven't met anyone willing or knowledgeable enough to explain the difference... perhaps no one knows cept the Pope himself?

Tom Araya has taught me a great deal about it though


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Rock&Roll has something other music just doesn't have... "Morality" "History" "Questions"

edit on 5-5-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 

I take it that you are claiming to be under the Adventist banner again . . .

My understanding of the church is that you don't necessarily have to subscribe to every single interpretation that other, founding members, or whoever, believed in.

. . . which is when Jesus' feet finally touch the earth again, at the mount of Olives if I an not mistaken . . .
That is an oracle of Zechariah, which is not anything to be taken literally. It was a prediction made about how good Judah was going to have it under the Persians, which we know did not work out thanks to Alexander and the Greeks.

. . . there are numerous verses saying how God's commandments never change . . .
Not really, since Jesus basically changed the commandments. I think he was talking about the underlying principles behind the Law, when he said they would not pass away. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the point of it was probably to give people needed physical rest, which would be inhumane to deny workers of.
I think the only people who should be concerned with covenants are Zionists who see it as certificate for ownership of the land of Palestine and Sinai, and Lebanon and Syria. So anyone who imagines that Israel will be satisfied with the land they are currently occupying are mistaken. The Old Testament view is that land was promised to Abraham, and his seed, and then there was the Law which specified who would be included as beneficiaries of that contract. Christians are not under that contract, and have a different sort of inheritance planned for them which includes everyone and everywhere.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


No, you got it around the wrong way....The Papacy is the Beast Power and that is easy to prove. What the texts are saying about protestantism is that by them follow a command of men, that is keeping Sunday then they are paying homage to the Beast, the papacy, as their authority in their life above God because God says keep the Sabbath day Holy (4th commandment) which is and has always been marked as from sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday. I suggest you listen to the sermon, follow the text presented in your Bible then proceed to read the entire thread (although you don't need to read the exchanges between Autowrench and I on pg2 and 3 as we are discussing slightly different issues).

I present in my own posts how Sunday represents the worship of the sun-god in paganism, usually the supreme god in most every form of paganism takes on the symbol of the sun. I show occult teaching where Satan/Lucifer himself is in fact that sun-god, or takes on that symbol to be himself. So by keeping Sunday you also vicariously venerate Satan rather than Jesus where His day the sabbath was made as a memorial to Him as our creator, and the creator of the Heavens, the Earth and all that is in them. The mark of the beast test is saying, choose who you give authority to in your life, the creator who rightfully deserves it and offered Himself as a sacrifice in your place or the counterfeit 'light of the world' Satan who is really the bearer of all things darkness.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


well we're sure;y not going to work 7 days a week man... Saturday is usually a half day too for those who do participate in working saturday.

The Pope just looks evil! there's no way around that


the adherents who keep sunday here are just as the adherents who keep friday and those who keep saturday... they are free to chose whichever day... the Federal government never sleeps.

or actually should I say only awakens when need be? either way you look at it...



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
or the counterfeit 'light of the world' Satan who is really the bearer of all things darkness.


this is where you're confusing and throwing me (and possibly others) for that loop (loop is a circle)

Jesus is the light of the world... (John 8:12)

not Satan the deceiver who was cast down.

venerating the Sun can be quite logical and scientific when you look at it, though I'd rather venerate the Son... Gods Son Jesus.

Jesus is gone now so it's not like venerating Obama with imagery like communists do and have done in other countries in the past... People are gullible that's one thing for certain.
edit on 5-5-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


But you would agree with the clear verses of Revelation 19 and 20 of being called up while still in the air then the 1000 years in heaven (not on earth) correct...

Jesus basically changed the Laws or he did or he didn't. Everyone single one of the 10 commandments are found to be reaffirmed to be obedient to during the time when all aspects of the new covenant were being detailed, aspects found in the later half of the Old Testament and up until the time of Jesus death on that Friday. If you don't subscribe to the new covenant which are the terms under which God will classify you as His people then you don't received what God promises in return, His Spirit to strengthen you to be able to keep the commandments and the ability to have the forgiveness of sins. To refuse the Holy Spirit is to walk away from God and to throw away your eternal life with God. I suggest you read up on the new covenant and how it differed to the first to get a better understanding. It turns out to be a pretty vital issue.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Yes, Satan takes on the symbol of the Sun for himself....Satan likes to receive worship that rightful belongs to Jesus. If you ever read some threads by New Age medium's you will know what I mean by 'Light'. They mostly unwittingly (sometimes wittingly) get all their messages from Lucifer/Satan. In the messages you always hear about the 'wisdom' that is bestowed to the people in the messages as 'Light'. Therefore Satan is trying to take a title that rightfully belongs to Jesus, 'The Light of the World' as a title that belongs to him, not only as a symbol of the sun but the 'wisdom' (darkness) he gives in his channeled messages. Read my posts on the earlier pages and all confusions should be cleared up.
edit on 5-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 

. . . verses of Revelation 19 and 20 . . .
I don't think there are any like that.

. . . then the 1000 years in heaven (not on earth) correct...
I don't see any sort of literal fulfillment of Revelation ever happening.

Jesus basically changed the Laws or he did or he didn't.
He did. The best example being the law for divorce. Jesus made it more strict than the written version.

If you don't subscribe to the new covenant which are the terms under which God will classify you as His people then you don't received what God promises in return, His Spirit to strengthen you to be able to keep the commandments and the ability to have the forgiveness of sins.
None of that has to do with the old covenant. The New Covenant has better promises than the old did.
edit on 5-5-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)





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