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Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Would you also agree that the 'fault' in the old covenant was not in the 10 commandments themselves but in the terms of the agreement on the object of the 10 commandment that the people themselves could not keep them in their own strength?
Considering the fact that Psalms 19:7 tells us 'The law of the LORD is perfect'. Is your answer a yes?
And you would agree that Jesus was under the law and had to fulfill it perfectly or else he would not have been an unblemished sacrifice in our place acceptable before the Father ( I am trying to determine what the point you were trying to make citing Matthew 12:1-14 when it only supports my case and not yours)?
Because to me it seems like you are citing texts with a couple of key words that support your current stance with little understanding of what the full meaning of the passage entails.edit on 3-5-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)
As the Jews departed from God, and failed to make the righteousness of Christ their own by faith, the Sabbath lost its significance to them. Satan was seeking to exalt himself and to draw men away from Christ, and he worked to pervert the Sabbath, because it is a sign of the power of Christ. The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions. Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.
When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.283, p. 284
The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.
If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.
Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.
Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.
Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.284, p. 285, p. 286
The "Sabbath day" is just a prophetic allusion to The Rest in his Millenial reign and the New Heaven and New Earth.
"The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281
Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20
The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6."
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281, p. 282
"The 4th commandment didn't establish a particular day of rest, just that we should rest from our labors after 6 days of work, to take a day to enjoy for ourselves. Genesis doesn't name what particular day he rested on, nor did he tell the Israelites what day they should rest on"
"The fact that you do not know that our God became our Sabbath troubles me."
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.
Is not an Adventist pastor.
Dr. Walter Veith
“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” — Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.
“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.
I take it that you are claiming to be under the Adventist banner again . . .
That is an oracle of Zechariah, which is not anything to be taken literally. It was a prediction made about how good Judah was going to have it under the Persians, which we know did not work out thanks to Alexander and the Greeks.
. . . which is when Jesus' feet finally touch the earth again, at the mount of Olives if I an not mistaken . . .
Not really, since Jesus basically changed the commandments. I think he was talking about the underlying principles behind the Law, when he said they would not pass away. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the point of it was probably to give people needed physical rest, which would be inhumane to deny workers of.
. . . there are numerous verses saying how God's commandments never change . . .
Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
or the counterfeit 'light of the world' Satan who is really the bearer of all things darkness.
I don't think there are any like that.
. . . verses of Revelation 19 and 20 . . .
I don't see any sort of literal fulfillment of Revelation ever happening.
. . . then the 1000 years in heaven (not on earth) correct...
He did. The best example being the law for divorce. Jesus made it more strict than the written version.
Jesus basically changed the Laws or he did or he didn't.
None of that has to do with the old covenant. The New Covenant has better promises than the old did.
If you don't subscribe to the new covenant which are the terms under which God will classify you as His people then you don't received what God promises in return, His Spirit to strengthen you to be able to keep the commandments and the ability to have the forgiveness of sins.