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US Decieved Into Beliving Rich Pay Their Fair Share Of Income Tax

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posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by jonasdelnegros
 



2nd




posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by thegagefather
Give me one logical reason that we can't make it fair.


The Bolshevik Revolution? Worked out great, right? How about Greece today. I'm all for income equality, but the question is, how do you practically go about getting it??? Historically, major efforts to achieve it haven't exactly worked out too well. And in today's world, if you raise a rich bastards taxes too much, they'll just move their income and assets to the Cayman Islands and say "nanner nanner".



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by thegagefather
 


OP, you're ENTIRE post is meaningless because you're reading the charts from the National Taxpayer's Union wrong! Those charts don't say that the top 1% pay 40% of their income in taxes, it says that the top 1% pays 40% of ALL INCOME TAXES PAID.

www.ntu.org...

"Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid". It doesn't say percentage of income paid in taxes like you assert.

For cripes sake, this forum is really getting dumbed down when people can't even read a chart correctly.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
There's a cap of only a few hundred thousand dollars on the taxes that the rich pay?

Then why in the hell are we giving them extensions on their tax breaks?

I bet even with the Bush tax cuts, the richest Americans are only paying the same they have every year.

Smoke and Mirrors. No wonder they hate Ron Paul's idea of scrapping the IRS and doing a sales tax instead ! We'd generate hundreds of billions of dollars extra by doing this.


THERE IS NO CAP ON TAXES PAID. I have a freakin degree in accounting. The OP completely misread the charts from NTU.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Let's not forget to mention the ONLY REASON America had a strong middle class throughout the ENTIRE 19th century was because the rich paid ZERO taxes. Forcing the wealthy to pay high taxes stunts growth, investment, spending, etc.. It's the absolute worst thing for the economy.



Deregulation and lower taxes = economic growth.
edit on 27-4-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Im tired of these tax threads. If you confiscated all the wealth and assets in america and turned it to cash to pay off the debt, you still would not have enough money to pay off the debt and unfunded liabilities!

We dont have a tax problem, we have a spending problem.

Go ahead, tax away, wont fix a thing.
edit on 27-4-2012 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 




He made a few minor errors, but overall, the numbers are fairly close, considering how little information is available.

Minor errors?? Not even close. Where does this number come from, in the first line of the OP?


my point is the rich owe roughly $34,000,000,000 in taxes in 2007 alone.

Later in the OP,


Because the median salary of these 400 families is over $87,000,000

400 x 87,000,000 = $34,800,000,000


His $34,800,000,000 figure is TOTAL INCOME and he wants it all. Minor error? Get real.

The entire premise is false based on the fallacy of a tax "cap" around $400,000.

What is this about?


It still doesn't answer the question as to who is supposed to pay back the Trillions of dollar of debt borrowed by republican admins.

Start a thread about it then. In this thread that question is deflection.




Or the reality that all the numbers are phony baloney.


Prove it then and don't attempt to use them falsely.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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The fact is that they have found the tax holes that allow them to keep their money, or keep it working for them. The ways that they do this are numerous.

I'll give you an example from Canada.

A smart trucker will own his own truck and business. His company works for another company.
A smart trucker will own his own farm and grow a crop that takes 2-4 years to grow. eg...echinatia or rhodiola.

The reason he does it this way is, so that the years his crop does not make money. (crop growth) the farm is at a loss. These are the years His truck can make MAD money and take MAD money and throw it at farm equipment like new trucks (leased) and tractors (leased) and land rentals, ect ect. Then the trucker/farmer writes off his tax money he would have payed the government, on his "failing farm"

The years the crops come in and he makes money on the farm, the farmer/trucker spends money on new tires/engines/new truck/new trailer, or he just works less in the truck, or hires a driver. This means he takes a loss on the money made on the farm and the truck.

I guess my point is that if you wanna keep your "tax" money yours, get a good accountant that knows the tax loopholes. This can be applied to any business. That's why Bill gates is in it so thick with monsanto, and charities. He's writing off and hiding his money!

So in order for it to change, the tax loopholes need to be fixed. Thanks for the thread!



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by libertytoall
Let's not forget to mention the ONLY REASON America had a strong middle class throughout the ENTIRE 19th century was because the rich paid ZERO taxes. Forcing the wealthy to pay high taxes stunts growth, investment, spending, etc.. It's the absolute worst thing for the economy.



Deregulation and lower taxes = economic growth.
edit on 27-4-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)


I dunno about that! After WWII, when income equality was at it's height, and so was income growth, the highest tax brackets were like in the 80% range. But at that time, there was a mentality of society taking care of each other. Now adays, it's an everyone for themselves mentality.

I'm of the opinion that, given the fact that most wealthy people pay roughly 15 to 20% of their income in income taxes (effective tax rate, not marginal), that a 15% flat tax ACROSS THE BOARD, with an easy to understand personal exemption and exemptions for children and for a mortgage, would help solve a lot of this tax envy stuff. That and END THE WELFARE STATE. 1 page tax returns for EVERYONE.
edit on 27-4-2012 by Drew99GT because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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43:00
edit on 27-4-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Our huge military expenditures, and the interest on the debt, money borrowed to pay for our huge military, exclusively serves the interests of the super rich.

The rich should pay for our huge military presence overseas, which means they are grossly under paying their share of the taxes.

Stop expecting working people in the U.S. to pay corporate welfare.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 




The rich should pay for our huge military presence overseas, which means they are grossly under paying their share of the taxes.

How would we know how much they pay? Is that based on "phony baloney" numbers or have you found the "real" numbers.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER

whats interesting is that for some corps,
they seem to be able to pay no taxes and instead spend the money on lobbying politicans.


It all semantics. The money they pay lobbyists is like a tax. In crime circles it's called "protection money"



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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I just don't get how people can sit here and blame "the rich" for the economic problems we're facing. "The rich" have always been responsible for the success and growth of our economy. In the old days people who came up with great ideas would seek investment from the wealthy rather than going to a bank. This type of system showed the greatest economic progress this country has ever witnessed. Once the federal reserve system was instituted we were dead in the water. When money became easy to borrow it became easy for government to become bloated. The sole purpose of the federal reserve system I'm convinced was to cripple the US economy by unsustainable debt and "big government." If the government had stayed small, never had a federal reserve, and stuck to republican values, we would never have regulated and taxed ourselves into the hole we find ourselves in. This is why being a liberal is highly ignorant. We cannot afford big government programs nor can we afford to expand government at all but liberals think somehow big government can solve our problems. It's absurd..

And don't get me wrong todays republicans are progressive big government people in disguise. People need to learn what true republicanism is.
edit on 27-4-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


Glad you see my point, we don't know how much they pay.

What we do know is that the middle class pays far too much. There was a time when the Fed government sent a lot of the money back to the states, which has been pretty much eliminated, so what are average taxpayers getting back for the money being sent to Washington?

I repeat, who is supposed to pay back that enormous debt built up under Repub admins.?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by libertytoall
 



I just don't get how people can sit here and blame "the rich" for the economic problems we're facing. "The rich" have always been responsible for the success and growth of our economy.


No they haven't, for the most part the rich have been nothing but a wealthy cleptocracy, starting with JP Morgan ripping off Edison way back in the day.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 




Glad you see my point, we don't know how much they pay.

Nice try but yes we do know. You can't have it both ways. Prove the figures wrong or accept them. Until you do one or the other your position is invalid. This statement is purely conjecture,


What we do know is that the middle class pays far too much.

According to you we know no such thing.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Our huge military!

How about our huge nanny state

150 million Americans get Government checks

15 trillion going to social securty more than the last decade of war

20 trillion going to prescription drugs more than the last decade of war

82 trillion going to medicare 8 times more than the last decade of war

Geez people.

www.usdebtclock.org...



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by DenyObfuscation
 


What figures, I have yet to see any figures on what the income of the wealthy, 5 Mil annual income group, actually pays, except what the Op presented.

All I have seen from the conservative side is a bunch of cherry picked data, that also doesn't include all the taxes, which fall disproportionately on the poor.

We do know what the Middle class pays, and where the money is going, as I have pointed out. Department of Defense and Interest on the budget make up 49% of the fed general budget.

www.whitehouse.gov...

We can always look at tax income based on historical data to see how much corporations paid compared to income taxes when our nations economy was functioning well. Hint, Corporation paid a lot more when the U.S. economy was doing far better.


edit on 27-4-2012 by poet1b because: change last line.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Social Security and Medicare are not paid for by income taxes, or corporate taxes, but by a separate FICA tax.

The Fed gov is still borrowing from FICA.

Your numbers are cherry picked nonsense.

And that is 15T owed to SS. Seems you can't accurately identify you own data.
edit on 27-4-2012 by poet1b because: add last line




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