US Decieved Into Beliving Rich Pay Their Fair Share Of Income Tax

reply to post by poet1b


I agree 100%.

I think our focus should be state and local voting, too.

Maybe if we quit worrying so damn much about one single man, who really doesn't have the power to change every failing system in every failing county.

Quite frankly, and no disrespect to the op at all, but i dont think we should discuss taxes in terms of the wealth crisis in america. Imo, all that should matter is that, over the past few decades the distribution of wealth is increasingly moving to the top year after year. It is actually one fact not many disagree with as every bit of data demonstrates this clearly and consistently. Who really cares how much they pay in taxes? What matters is the rich are still getting richer DESPITE the claims their taxes are increasing.

On the flip side, while the middle class and poor supposedly pays less and less in taxes, they continue to see their wealth decrese.

The amount of taxes one pays is closely related to the amount of wealth one accumulatess. So OF COURSE the rich will pay more and more taxes the more and more wealth they acculate. The problem is that, in line witht the OP, its being pummeled into our brains that it is unfair the rich have to pay so much in taxes. As a result of this manufactured consent, their taxes are decreasng, as demonstrated in the OP but, regardless, they still continue to get richer and we continue to get poorer. Poor them...

Meanwhile, people complain that the number of welfare recipients is increasing. Of course its going to! People are getting poorer and the money they are losing is going to the top! The rich dont want to let go of their wealth by giving people jobs so how else are people supposed to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies? So while these people are begging for a handout and the rich continue to reap the benefits of increased wealth AND lower taxes, some people are now requesting the poor pay a bigger portion of the decreasing income in taxes.

Great idea...lets see how that goes, shall we?

reply to post by ajay59


And what would you do should all this money you save on your own virtually disappear right before you retire in another manufactured economical collapse?

We saw what happened in the 20s before FICA existed. It wasnt pretty.

reply to post by nunya13


Good points, Nunya...

But I'm definitely not for the wealthy paying less. I think they should pay more, more, more.

And as for welfare recipients... IMO, if someone is against it, that someone shouldn't have to pay it, and shouldn't receive it if they lose their job. It's like car insurance. Hate it until you use it.

reply to post by thegagefather


Hoo Haa , Awesome Thread!

Keep up the good works.

www.youtube.com... S&F

Thanks a ton, Manimal.

That youtube link is awesome.

Dr. Strangelove is one of my favorite movies, and I'm only in my 20's.

@Schuyler

You claim the top 1% earn 20% of the income, according to the IRS, but nearly every single independant study I've found shows they've earned over 40%. Not only that, but one of the sources is the US National Taxpayer's Union.

Not sure who to believe 100%, but given the track record, I'll go with the non-gov' sources.

These corporate elite are just like school in summertime!

No class

(except for upper-class)

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by thegagefather

 

Those paid by the taxes are paid by the taxes of the proletariat, not the rich.

Carry on with the marixst tripe.

Carry on with your McCarthyist tripe.

Are you some kind of 'patriot'.

How can you read this thread and still defend the Capitalist?

You are not a capitalist unless you are a corporatist or a banker btw.

It makes me sad when I see guys like you on tv wearing Patriot Costumes and cheering for your own demise. Worshipping the Oligarchy. It really does.

You cant argue with the OP. What he is saying is correct.

Originally posted by neo96

With over 150 million Americans getting paid from the taxes of others go on kill all the rich

That is going to solve everything.

And it seems you dont understand your beloved 'constitution' at all. You should do some research into how your Founding Fathers dealt with Corporation's.

Liberty does not equal the right to demonic greed. Your founding Farthers kept Corporation's in check. They would be rolling in their graves if they could see what has become of the United States.

reply to post by Germanicus


ol·i·gar·chy

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons(congress) or in a dominate class(congressmman) or clique; government by the few(congressman)

2. a state or organization so ruled(congress)

3. the persons or class so ruling(congress)

Love the person attack my patriotism?

How about the fact this country is a constitutional republic?

and How many self proclaimed "patriots" use the term oligarchy?

The only people who use class warfare are communists,fascists,marxists.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Germanicus

 

ol·i·gar·chy

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons(congress) or in a dominate class(congressmman) or clique; government by the few(congressman)

2. a state or organization so ruled(congress)

3. the persons or class so ruling(congress)

Love the person attack my patriotism?

How about the fact this country is a constitutional republic?

and How many self proclaimed "patriots" use the term oligarchy?

The only people who use class warfare are communists,fascists,marxists.

Im no American 'patriot' . I am a socialist. I am a 'global patriot' though.
Read this--
When the Founding Fathers freed themselves from the British government,they were freeing themselves from the banks and corporations just as much.They knew corporations had to be kept in check.Incorperation is a privilege. Initially all corporations were selected to enable activities that benifited the public.Shareholders were only enabled to profit as a means to an end.Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy and other realms of society.They had alot of other conditions imposed on them as well,like they were not allowed to make any political or charitable donations.

Right now,the US Federal Government could preempt all 'state corporate law' under the courts current expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause.You could get around the Tenth Amendment and get them all out of Delaware.Corporate Personhood mocks the Bill of Rights and could also be removed.The Founding Fathers would remove it. Its not like your leaders couldnt fix things if they tried. And it could be done within your constitution.

And I attack your logic,nothing else.


edit- And i take exception to your McCarthyism.
So before you go there,no Obama is not a socialist and no Communism is not Socialism.


edit- And the "what about Russia" defence is tired and exhausted.
And please dont mention Woodrow Wilson. Im no liberal Democrat.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Germanicus

 

ol·i·gar·chy

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons(congress) or in a dominate class(congressmman) or clique; government by the few(congressman)

2. a state or organization so ruled(congress)

3. the persons or class so ruling(congress)

Love the person attack my patriotism?

How about the fact this country is a constitutional republic?

and How many self proclaimed "patriots" use the term oligarchy?

The only people who use class warfare are communists,fascists,marxists.

This is a plutocracy.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Germanicus

 

ol·i·gar·chy

1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons(congress) or in a dominate class(congressmman) or clique; government by the few(congressman)

2. a state or organization so ruled(congress)

3. the persons or class so ruling(congress)

Love the person attack my patriotism?

How about the fact this country is a constitutional republic?

and How many self proclaimed "patriots" use the term oligarchy?

The only people who use class warfare are communists,fascists,marxists.

This is a plutocracy.

reply to post by thegagefather

You said you would "recrunch" numbers and re-post. Your OP is a factual mess with miscalculations and false premises.

If you want to skip my jargon, my point is the rich owe roughly $34,000,000,000 in taxes in 2007 alone.

ETA: The above quote

Oh - wait a second... There's a cap on that tax? And the cap isn't even half a million dollars?

Oh - wait a second... There's a limit of $411,000 ($380,354 in 2008, $343,927 in 2009, declining, but more recent years not yet posted)

Wrong and you knew it.

Because almost all sources of statistical information in the US say that "In order to be included in the top 1% of taxpayers in the US, you must make roughly $400,000 a year." (Roughly 300,000 in some areas, roughly 500,000 in others)

You got a link for that? It doesn't make sense.

If one were to look at this graph, he would assume the people paying all that they deserve to in taxes is... well... EVERYONE, right? www.mybudget360.com...
Yep. Add those numbers up, and you'll get a staggering 100% of the population!
WRONG

It's a graph of household income. The numbers add up to 100%. What were you looking at?

Instead, they paid $400,000.

Again incorrect, stems from confusing cap and threshold in your NTU link.

So what is the American public being short-sided with?

400 x 87,000,000 = $34,800,000,000
400 x 400,000 = $160,400,000

$34,800,000,000
- $160,400,000
-------------------------
$34,639,600,000
So, between only 400 families in America... we're still owed 34.639 BILLION DOLLARS

Not only is the math bad, 400 x 400,000 is 160,000,000, but the logic is faulty. Should those 400 families pay 100% tax on their income as you have calculated?

Despite agreeing to your mistake soon after your OP, it appears as though you will attempt to carry on as if you were correct.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


He made a few minor errors, but overall, the numbers are fairly close, considering how little information is available.

It still doesn't answer the question as to who is supposed to pay back the Trillions of dollar of debt borrowed by republican admins.

Or the reality that all the numbers are phony baloney.

End the Fed and end the income tax altogether. My understanding is that our income tax goes to pay the interest on the money we borrowed from the Federal Reserve. If we issue our own (actual government issued) currency with no interest, the need for an income tax disappears. The argument here shouldn't be,"He didn't pay his fair share!" but rather "Why should anyone have to pay income tax in the first place!" That is the real outrage.

Charge a progressive 0.00005% tax that increases with every dollar earned (wages, dividends, investments, etc).

Someone making $100k would pay 5% (100,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $200k would pay 10% (200,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $300k would pay 15% (300,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $400k would pay 20% (400,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $500k would pay 25% (500,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $600k would pay 30% (600,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $700k would pay 35% (700,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $800k would pay 40% (800,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $900k would pay 45% (900,000 x 0.00005).
Someone making $1MIL would pay 50% (1,000,000 x 0.00005).

For Example, if someone is making $67,852.00/yr they would pay 3.39% (67,852 x 0.00005) as their tax rate.

No deductions, no write-offs, no loop-holes. The maximum tax would be capped at 50% which would still allow folks to become ridiculously wealthy.

What the heck is "fair share" of taxes?? Funding the monstrosity that is our government?? The 16th amendment bases income tax on a sliding scale, which it's not a tax on income or property; it's a tax on privilege. Those who acquired wealth honestly have in turn acquired a status of providing their own privileges through diligence. Government has no right to rob them of that. The criminally rich? Well, that's another story. They should be incarcerated, not taxed.