21 levels of Security Clearances above POTUS

Just wondering what you guys think of this. Is this true, or not? I've always thought of POTUS, as a "puppet" especially after Obama because POTUS. He made so many promises, yet sounded so convincing of those promises only to be elected as POTUS to do the opposite of everything he said he would do.

I found this information awhile back, and I've never seen it talked about on ATS so I figure I would bring it up to see what you guys have to say about this.

Keep in mind that there are two different claims that I know of. 1, is that there is 21 Secruity Clearances above the POTUS, and the other is 38 levels.

21 Levels;



21 Levels Source

38 Levels;



I'm well aware that both sources are far from being a legitimate source. I still thought this would make up for an interesting dicussion. Hopefully someone who actually has a little bit of knowledge on this subject, will come along and shine some light on this topic for us.

*MODs, forgive me if I created this thread in the wrong place. Feel free to move it to the proper forum.

abovetopsecret

Really super secrety non expo confi-super-dential.

You missed one...

Reminds me of a story.

Once a friend asked his buddy who was in the military about all the top secret levels of clearance.

Said friend could not comment about that since that information itself was top secret.
And that he also could not comment about the book in his commanders office that dealt with those levels of clearance.

I had a TS SCI clearance and I have never heard of the so-called 'majestic' clearance except in UFO circles. Ditto with a bunch of those others listed in that upper frame. Of course things may have changed since I had mine ... but still ... I'm not too sure of the listing.

But for discussion .... if there are clearances over that of the POTUS .. GOOD!
He's just an elected politician and being elected doesn't mean he has a right
to know everything about our security and our projects.

Democrat or republican .. doesn't matter .. he's a temporary employee in DC.

Two words - plausible deniability.

Also, I agree with other posters here, POTUS is an elected official, and a short term one at that, at the best, for eight years.

Why should he (or she) know the nations secrets once they return to civilian life? It's a high security risk to have someone outside of the control of these circles knowing certain facts, I'm sure.

reply to post by FlyersFan

He's just an elected politician and being elected doesn't mean he has a right
to know everything about our security and our projects.

...and keeping with the "what if" those clearances exist, then it begs the question, who are the one's with said clearances, more, who determines "they" have the right to those clearances?

COSMIC is a NATO designator, not an actual clearance that i know of.

CRYPTO is also a designator that shows the material is used for the encryption in cryptographic equipment. It can be designated TOP SECRET CRYPTO, SECRET CRYPTO, CONFIDENTIAL CRYPTO, depending on the level of informatioin the cryptographic equipment processes.

I've held a TS/SCI clearance for 30 yrs and have been read in for a few SAP programs. Also did a couple stints as SSO clerk. Never heard of those "clearances" listed above CRYPTO on that chart.

I'm not saying they don't exist. Just saying the chart is partially inaccurate and i've never heard of them.

I can imagine working your way through all the security levels would be a bit like sitting down and watching every single episode of "lost" in one sitting. Just when you think you have a handle on what the h_ll is going on, another plot twist comes along and you are wondering if it has something to do with that smoke monster

I just think it's funny that someone would actually think they might get a decent answer from someone regarding this.

You want one closest to the truth? It's gotta be broad...I'll give it a shot:


Who knows? Maybe so, probably not.

I don't think they really need that many security clearances, this is why we hear the saying "in the need to know". Just because someone has a TOP SECRET clearance doesn't mean they have free reign to anything classified as TOP SECRET, their job must be associated with whatever it is; they must be "in the need to know".

Matter of fact, I had a TOP SECRET clearance only because I worked with types of explosives and ejection seats. That doesn't mean I could waltz around and prod into anything I like, or anything for that matter except what was relevant to my job.

If there is a bunch of "upper level" security clearances then who knows, they might work differently or something.

I have heard there is also one known as "OMEGA CLEARANCE" which is the end all, know-all. There is actually a position that has 1 individual with such clearance, in charge of several dozen departments with clearances just below that, and those departments in charge of lesser clearances. The sole purpose being the information clearing house to ensure things are coordinated, people are protected, and agendas are met.

reply to post by TheProphetMark


Thanks ALOT for sharing!!! his clears up alot of questions!! S&F!

reply to post by TheProphetMark

It's not true. It's complete fiction. Even the parts that aren't complete fiction are wrong in your chart.

1. There is no "restricted" classification or security clearance in the United States.
2. SCI is sensitive compartmented information.
3. USAP is not a security clearance, it's a kind of special access program that is briefed to the relevant Congressional committees but otherwise denied.
4. Crypto refers to cryptological material, key material and the like. I'll leave that in the hands of the experts.
5. Ultra was an old WW2 code word for a COMINT compartment which fell into disuse a long, long time ago.
6. Cosmic is the NATO term for Top Secret. Lower levels are NATO Restricted, NATO Confidential, and NATO Secret, but TS stuff is called Cosmic Top Secret.

There can be no levels of security clearance above the POTUS, because the levels of security clearance are established by the President. They only exist because he says they do. Fantasists like to imagine levels above those established by executive order, but they never put any real work into their fantasy. We never hear about the investigative standards, who is the investigative service provider, the adjudicative standards, where the security offices are, the marking standards, the clearance database, position designation, etc. Government HR can barely manage the suitability and security process we have today, with just three levels of non-sensitive positions and three levels of sensitive positions. Who can handle 20-30 levels? Why would they bother?

These lists may fascinate the yokels but they're bogus.

There is no single hierarchy of secrecy or sensitivity, that runs in a single line. Each govt agency which handles sensitive information - which is virtually all of them - has its own list of levels of secrecy and sometimes there are forks in the road -- something that is highly secret is available only to the most senior and trusted people in one division and not at all available even to the heads of other divisions, who in turn have their own exclusive secrets. There are certain bits of information that are not even shared with cabinet secretaries, and there are probably certain bits that are available only to people at a certain level but not to people at a supposedly higher level for the simple precaution of no one person knowing "too much".

reply to post by TheProphetMark

Okay, look.
There is such things as "Cosmic" and "Majestic" names for clearances. This information was given to me by my Grandpa who served in the Army in 1965. He wasn't like a "28 Majestic". He was still up there though. The government of the US is more complicated than you think. Don't dig too deep in these things.

"There can be no levels of security clearance above the POTUS"

REMEMBER: The POTUS is only a politician. Do you really think they let the leader of a country know EVERYTHING? He just runs the country, and some things are better kept away from a person who has that much power. Even if he does have the highest security clearance, do YOU think the government will show him EVERYTHING? I don't think so.

So, I disagree, I can't prove it, but I think the President doesn't know what some of these agencies keep locked up behind those doors.

wofat18
"There can be no levels of security clearance above the POTUS"

REMEMBER: The POTUS is only a politician. Do you really think they let the leader of a country know EVERYTHING? He just runs the country, and some things are better kept away from a person who has that much power. Even if he does have the highest security clearance, do YOU think the government will show him EVERYTHING? I don't think so.

So, I disagree, I can't prove it, but I think the President doesn't know what some of these agencies keep locked up behind those doors.

edit on 25-9-2013 by wofat18 because: (no reason given)

Yes they will and do. I know this from experience.

babybunnies
Two words - plausible deniability.

Also, I agree with other posters here, POTUS is an elected official, and a short term one at that, at the best, for eight years.

Why should he (or she) know the nations secrets once they return to civilian life? It's a high security risk to have someone outside of the control of these circles knowing certain facts, I'm sure.

I hear what you're saying and it makes sense but......... It begs the question as to who exactly is worthy of that clearance, who decides that and what kind of information is withheld.

As we have recently seen from the NSA revelations, those in power can not be trusted with keeping American citizens bests interests in mind when it comes to secret decisions. This speculation would lead one to believe that there is another force at work within the government who makes these choices under some secret authority and that in my mind is a dangerous prospect.

All nations and governments have secrets, it is needed and is not by itself inherently bad but with that said, on the lowest level of governmental secrecy we have been recently exposed to in the last couple months because of the honesty of Edward Snowden, I cringe at the thought of what else they are hiding from us while violating every civil and Constitutional right we have as Americans.

Here's what you want to know. The President knows what his advisors want him to know. Sometimes the President wants to know more. That is the advisor's first clue that they screwed up. Oh yeah, I should clue you in to the fact that 'most' of the advisors have a boss, who is someone other than the Prez, and they don't take kindly to 'surprises' anymore than the President does. Follow this little bit of insight to its logical conclusion.

Sometimes the President is curious. Reagan was one of those. They're a pretty smart lot those guys and tend to never bite too deeply into the apple.

I saw a pretty good synopsis of the use of classifications not too long ago here. I didn't save the OP's name in the ole gray matter memory banks, but it was VERY (read that as scary) accurate. Posting a compilation of info like that WILL get you put on a scheduled visit list.

Now here's what I want you to know. There is almost no classified material more tightly controlled than your run of the mill, Plane Jane, TOP SECRET documentation. Anyone who has had access knows this is true. Most people who have had access to classified material found it covered with other classification caveats. This may not make sense to you, but I am correct in my statement. Think two-man control.

What everyone 'should' know: holding a security clearance doesn't much mean squat in terms of access. Having a background investigation favorably adjudicated only clears you for "a position of trust and responsibility with the US Government."

I've been out of the business of holding a TS clearance for a long long time now, and I grant things change. I don't think they've changed all that much though. Cheers!!