"A Revolution to attain the Natural Rights of men which were embraced by the Founders. "

Only if you are neither a Native American Indian or Negro Slave. Those people had no natural rights. A very selectice clause in your Decleration Of Independence is it not?

Originally posted by Malynn

Kiefer Sutherland (Jack Bauer reading the declaration?! Yes please.)

If our government was run by men like Jack, I wouldn't need to bitch. I can disagree with someone, and even live under their rules if they have been elected to office, IF they are men of honor and integrity. Unfortunately, the honor and integrity displayed by Jack Bauer is just as fictional as he is anymore.

They use the media to push their agenda. Why can't we? Oh wait, we need rich people for this *sigh*

Sweetheart, I don't have two dimes to rub together; but watch this message get out anyway (with the help of people like you.)

Originally posted by lambros56
You know. Every now and again, someone comes along on ATS and gets it so right.
They create a thread that's so inspirational that it gives you that bit of hope and at the same time makes you wish that the millions who are asleep could be sitting in the same room with you and taking action to what the thread is awakening them up to.

Well I've got to say, you are one of the few that has done it for me and not just on one occasion but quite a few.

Well done mate. What a great thread.

I'm glad to be of service brother. Someone had to do it, so why not me? I'm half expecting a knock on the door anytime, but I don't care. I'll throw my body on the gears if it means my children and grandchildren will breathe free air as I did when I was a child.

Besides, I have a friend at the ACLU.

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by budro
As if I were invited into the conversation I would like to add my thoughts.

Bravo OP for renewing in me the energy of complex rational which my mind holds so dear. It is a pleasure to read the thoughts of another who understands the importance of language, culture and borders; be it from you, our forefathers, or paid entertainers which in this case happen to be fueling the fire.

On to my points; OP if you want to reach the maximum audience with this might I suggest adding a few notations to the origination of the grievances which are only being perpetuated with the current administration. Meaning that those who are so deceived by the system and who worship their leaders will likely not assimilate information once they are shown the reality that they have been deceived. Both sides are guilty and most fools take sides while history shows us that our oppressors do not have sides. They are masters at dividing and that brings up the next point.

You're right of course. With a 9% approval rating, Congress need to go as well. Should we start making lists? Why don't we start with every Representative and Senator that voted for the NDAA.

Well sir a list is going to be needed but first we have to organize and unite. We should not allow ourselves to be forced into a response when our society is divided. The social discord should be fixed first. The masters of influence have to be countered with equal and greater measures so the truth can be seen by the majority.

Once society is informed our joint effort would not need to be violent. But this is the greatest conundrum, as stated before, the reprobate mind would not recognize a key placed in their palm which could free them from the chains. So we have a long way to go before we worry about the big boys on top. As a species we have to adopt a way of life that promotes natural freedoms. That of course means that if you do not work and participate then you naturally die of starvation. If you harm someone you will be harmed and if you harm no one you will be wrong of no crime. It is hard to even imagine such a society where logic rules the day and false idols are cast aside.

If we do not correct our ways we will fall again into this trap, because it is a trap created by demand of the deprave mind. If we do not wait until the masses are united we will fall divided again as we are now. Cornered, stripped of resources and isolated. I know it is not realistic that we can suffer long enough to revolutionize society before we replace a government, but if the government be for and by the people then the people better know what they want.

And despite all of this, Obama has the audacity to run for a second term.....and there are people who will vote for him. It's a sick and twisted country we've become.....

A brainwashed lot we are.

The thread was put together nicely, but I am wondering why the OP decided to just aim it at the "Employees of the Federal Government" and not address the People, that is, ever Individual as an indication of just how far over all we have fallen from the concept of liberty, limited government, self-government, checks and balances and Individual and States' Rights.

I also wonder why the OP chose not to dig deeper in the "long train of abuses" that the Government has engaged in; from the "War on Drugs" to legal "blackmail" via withholding Federal funds from certain projects if States do not comply with the will of congress.

Understandably, President Obama is fresh in our minds and I discount the notion that some posters have brought up such as "where were you in 2000? 2004? 2008?"; implying that each of you that wishes to petition your Government on grievances shouldn't be able to because you were not -- A: a member of this site so thus how could you express your views to this particular person or B: complacent and thus part of the problem.

I hope your aim with what you presented is to garner discussion -- though so far it is merely concurrence with some dissension. While the original did list grievances towards the King, I believe the focus was more on the concept of where political power lies. To put to practice the notion that all political power is derived from the Individual and it is that Individual who allows Government to exist. That which was given, can surely be taken back.

It would be interesting if we can get more of a discussion going rather than the potential bickering about partisan issues. That Government has engaged in a much longer train of abuses than the presented ones (not to discount them) and that the People are just as much responsible as "Federal Employees".

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
The thread was put together nicely, but I am wondering why the OP decided to just aim it at the "Employees of the Federal Government" and not address the People, that is, ever Individual as an indication of just how far over all we have fallen from the concept of liberty, limited government, self-government, checks and balances and Individual and States' Rights.

I didn't address the people, other than to specify some of the abuses they have endured, because I AM their voice. It is the employees of the Federal government who need to get their act straight, because without their help Obama couldn't find his way to the head. They are enabling this usurper, and only when they stop - and use their power to levy charges against BHO - will this descent into Tyranny be arrested.

I also wonder why the OP chose not to dig deeper in the "long train of abuses" that the Government has engaged in; from the "War on Drugs" to legal "blackmail" via withholding Federal funds from certain projects if States do not comply with the will of congress.

Even the original Constitution had 10 Amendments, the Bill of Rights, because the Founders didn't think of everything the first time around. I ENCOURAGE everyone to look over the 1776 DOI and use its wording as I did to find contemporary examples of the abuses detailed therein.. I know I forgot a lot; what I wrote was just what I came up with off the top of my head. One major revision I am going to make on the published article is to add Fast and Furious to the list.

I hope your aim with what you presented is to garner discussion -- though so far it is merely concurrence with some dissension.

Absolutely. I can't do everything myself, nor would I be so smug as to think I can. As I just said, I'm hoping to get some help finishing and polishing the New Declaration. When it is ready, I'll create an episode of TTiV in which I will read it to the world.

It would be interesting if we can get more of a discussion going rather than the potential bickering about partisan issues. That Government has engaged in a much longer train of abuses than the presented ones (not to discount them) and that the People are just as much responsible as "Federal Employees".

edit on 27-4-2012 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)

Yes it would. Thank you for your input.

everything in America is for sale , Americans are human capital and live in a corporation not a country .

anyone like to explain crown copy right in the united states

nice thread title OP

Originally posted by OldCorp
I didn't address the people...because I AM their voice. It is the employees of the Federal government who need to get their act straight, because without their help Obama couldn't find his way to the head.

Then you wholly do not understand the concept presented in the Declaration of Independence. That Free Men (all inclusive; men and women), regardless of employment or station, hold the political power. I won't deny that there are many within the bowels of the Federal Government that do enable, but the Individual on a whole acquiesces their political power freely.

This is why reelection rates are so high. Acquiescence -- from the Representative down to the poorest of citizen, all have handed power freely with nary a protest. Sure there are pockets of resistance and soap boxes such as these in which we see Free Men fight for Liberty and it is a wonderful sight -- yours included. But to just aim it directly at one group, while willfully placing yourself outside of blame doesn't solve the problem.

They are enabling this usurper, and only when they stop - and use their power to levy charges against BHO - will this descent into Tyranny be arrested.

And you or me are not enabling him? The reelection rates for incumbent Representatives is ridiculously high and short of killing someone, most know they firmly hold their seats because of you and I and our acquiescence.

Even the original Constitution had 10 Amendments, the Bill of Rights, because the Founders didn't think of everything the first time around.

This could spawn a whole other topic -- depending on how one sees the Constitution. Founders such as James Madison, the "Father of the Bill of Rights", only put them in place because they needed the support of States that wanted them. He argued that such "Bills of Rights" would lead to the school of thought that by merely listing certain Rights, the Government could see the innumerable Rights we retain as not protected. One could say it has lead to the thought that Rights are granted by the Government; a view many hold today because of poor education regarding the concept of inherent and unalienable Rights. By I digress, this is a discussion for a different topic.

I know I forgot a lot; what I wrote was just what I came up with off the top of my head. One major revision I am going to make on the published article is to add Fast and Furious to the list.

And this is why I recognized that President Obama is fresh in the mind and that is why the list contains only what you think to be a list of abuses. But I think if we, as Individuals and collectively as the People are to flex our inherent political power, we need to expand the scope to show that the abuses have been happening for a much longer time.

A valid argument could be said that the Declaration was nullified and no longer recognized as a guiding doctrine because of the Civil War. In which Free Men, sought to change their Government and were struck down. Regardless of their reasons; good or bad; they had that Right as inscribed and recognized in the Declaration of Independence and were punished for trying to invoke it.

Post Script
OP I am not trying to contend with you; I hope you understand that.

Originally posted by alldaylong
"A Revolution to attain the Natural Rights of men which were embraced by the Founders. "

Only if you are neither a Native American Indian or Negro Slave. Those people had no natural rights. A very selectice clause in your Decleration Of Independence is it not?

They absolutely had Natural Rights but I am guessing you are speaking of the ill-conceived "3/5ths Compromise" that was within the original Constitution?

The "compromise" was for taxation and counting purposes and while definitely a black mark upon the Constitution, spoke nothing of denying any Rights or declaring that Native American Indians or negro slaves held no such Rights.

That was done by society and was eventually corrected. Similar to the concept that persons try to state such as: The Constitution denied woman -- false; the Constitution excluded the poor -- false. All constructs of a society that was transforming.

The most notable aspect of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution -- save one instance -- speaks about the Individual and the People. Society at the time dictated that it only applied to "white male landowners".

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Sure there are pockets of resistance and soap boxes such as these in which we see Free Men fight for Liberty and it is a wonderful sight

Sorry to single out a quote in your elaborate post. I don't much disagree with you on the whole, but I'd like for those reading to recall the "four boxes of freedom," which you brought to my mind, with those being the soap box, ballot box, jury box, and finally the ammo box.

Quite a few are steady using the soap box.

The ballot box is still receiving hope, seeing as it's presidential election year.

The jury box... well, this one may still have hope if the ballot box fails, and even in the meanwhile...

As for the ammo box... all I'll say is godspeed to the former three...

Originally posted by jlm912
Sorry to single out a quote in your elaborate post. I don't much disagree with you on the whole, but I'd like for those reading to recall the "four boxes of freedom," which you brought to my mind, with those being the soap box, ballot box, jury box, and finally the ammo box.

There is no reason to be sorry here. When we neglect and take for granted our Natural Right to speak freely (the soap box) we run the risk of allowing the ambitious to consolidate power -- such as we have seen over the past century and more.

The "soap box" is as much a powerful tool as the "ammo box", but only when used correctly. Harnessing the public's ear pushes something more powerful than a bullet could ever be -- an idea, a vision, a dream. Something that once seeded and taken root, cannot be killed off with tyranny; though it will surely attempt to do so.

Take for instance North Korea. Speech is so far beaten down, that no one wants to speak out (that is if there are people there actually wanting to proverbially flex their Natural Rights) against the tyrannical Government. But if one person, just one person can plant the seeds of liberty from within and begin to spread that concept, there are not enough bullets; short of genocide; that can stop a people from gaining their freedom. The very notion that one would stand against such tyranny is freedom in its own right!

As for here in the United States, the long march of consolidation of power only proves Lord Acton's famous words (that which was already proven in history that is...) "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely". As long as the Individual does not participate beyond showing up in November to cast a vote that has no binding attached to it, then the "long-train of abuses" will continue and the "soap box" will be steadily replaced with the "ballot box".

But in my mind there is time, may it be dwindling, to utilize the "soap box", the "ballot box" and the "jury box" to its fullest extent. Those three are all based on our Natural Right of speech.

Powerful stuff -- something I intend to share with many people, especially those previously alluded to who sleepwalk through life in a TV-narcotic-induced state of non-being!

Let me ask you all something. Are threads like this one just dropped because those who read it and care are just to busy staying proactive or is it simply boredom that causes threads like this to die quickly. For me its a little of both. Ive read so many gloom and doom threads that I care not what any one has to say because all I can do is wait for the battle cry and hope to God I recognize it when it is given.

For me, much of the reason I simply give up on here is because everything quickly turns into he said she said and its all a big ignorant mess. The ill informed argue with the haughty fools and rarely is their evidence that these mental battles reach beyond a computer screen.

Meh, whats it matter any way

Originally posted by budro
Let me ask you all something. Are threads like this one just dropped because those who read it and care are just to busy staying proactive or is it simply boredom that causes threads like this to die quickly. For me its a little of both. Ive read so many gloom and doom threads that I care not what any one has to say because all I can do is wait for the battle cry and hope to God I recognize it when it is given.

For me, much of the reason I simply give up on here is because everything quickly turns into he said she said and its all a big ignorant mess. The ill informed argue with the haughty fools and rarely is their evidence that these mental battles reach beyond a computer screen.

Meh, whats it matter any way

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm busy opening up new fronts every day. I need to carry the fight forward, and not worry so much about the ground I've already taken.