The Way to Avoid Starting Another War Abroad... a War at Home.

(Side note: I just wrote this in about 10 minutes as a result of a short sequence of brainwaves... so I'm sure there is stuff in here that I haven't stated perfectly, and that it's not all stunningly insightful... but I hope it's at least well-written enough to provoke some thought and spur some further revelations. Let's consider it to be an Agile conversation development methodology. The key was in getting the 70% solution to production, then debating the # out of it.)

At some point in the lifecycle of a superpower, it seems that foreign policy takes precedence over domestic policy. The government spends more time and resources trying to dictate to other countries than they spend ensuring the safety and prosperity of their own citizens. The US is already at this point, which bodes ill for its future as a united nation, and for its historical reputation as a bastion of freedom and opportunity. (I mean... the freedom and opportunity is already gone... but soon the perception will even fade among its population.)

I don't say this simply to kick sand at the US. For the most part, I like y'all. You're not so different from your neighbours in the North, despite the misspelling of words, and inexplicable aversion to hockey. It pains me to see your country (and yes, ours as well) in the state they are in. Despite all we've lost to creeping government power-grabs, and bank encroachment, we still like to believe in the ghost of our founding principles.

What we lack now are heroes. We have plenty of historical heroes to look up to, but who is willing to step up and emulate them? Plenty of people have awoken to the fact that our great countries may now be great only in our collective memories, and that something needs to change to get us back on track. It's the entrenched (and deeply flawed) system of our governments and of international affairs that have put us in this position... and yet we rely on those exact things to get us out of it. Are we all nuts?

I propose that we are. We're insane to keep trying the same thing and expecting it to finally work. Our same thing has not worked for decades.

To break this cycle, we need to get dangerous. We need to shake the system to its core, and act on the flaws that we all know, but refuse to address.

We need to start breaking s##t, and not fearing the consequences. We need to stop fearing for our lives, and start regretting that we only have one life to give in the pursuit of our own freedom, and that of our children. We need heroes who will likely die in the process, and we need ways to make sure that the system cannot mutate again into what it has become.

Now let's consider that a preamble. The real point is that it is becoming increasingly clear that the instigation of more wars overseas is already a done deal. We will have no say in whether these conflicts occur. It will not matter that our countries are being used as a bludgeon on the rest of the world, because we are not important enough to stop it. The only way to stop it is to return focus of the marauding superpowers to their own borders.

We need to be less concerned about human rights abuses in Syria (this is Syria's problem to fix), and about non-aggressive countries gaining the ability to provide power to their people, and more concerned about the burning unrest within our own country.

I can't come on here and encourage people to throw themselves in the gears of the machine of war. Those gears are just as likely to kill folks at home as they are abroad. But that is likely what it will take. See? I'm not one of the heroes I'm talking about. But if those heroes aren't here, and aren't ready to make the sacrifice needed, we will go to war again and again. We will crush, kill and destroy anything that stands in the way of total domination of this planet and its resources... and we'll continue to see ourselves as virtuous.

The time for that draws near in parts of Europe. America isnt ready.It will have to get worse first.

And it will.

The hero's will come from Europe.

Originally posted by Germanicus
The time for that draws near in parts of Europe. America isnt ready.It will have to get worse first.

And it will.

The hero's will come from Europe.

The hero's came from Europe before

The problem with this scenario is that we would be killing our relatives, neighbors, people we cared about etc. Who are we going to be fighting? If the scenario is that bad wouldn't our peers be with us?

To break this cycle, we need to get dangerous. We need to shake the system to its core, and act on the flaws that we all know, but refuse to address.

We need to start breaking s##t, and not fearing the consequences. We need to stop fearing for our lives, and start regretting that we only have one life to give in the pursuit of our own freedom, and that of our children. We need heroes who will likely die in the process, and we need ways to make sure that the system cannot mutate again into what it has become.

We will crush, kill and destroy anything that stands in the way of total domination of this planet and its resources... and we'll continue to see ourselves as virtuous.

The above quoted portion of your post bears a very striking resemblance to this (imo):

"We emphasize the great importance of martyrdom operations against the enemy - operations that have inflicted great damage on the United States and Israel, which damage is unprecedented in their history, thanks to Almighty Allah." Sheikh ul-Mujahideen Usama bin Laden (hafidhahullah).

What Are Martyrdom Operations?

Martyrdom Operations - sometimes called Fidayee attacks (see Note 1) - are those where a Muslim, a Mujahid, attacks the enemy in such a way that the death of that Muslim is (should Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) so will it) highly likely. The history of Islam is replete with heroes who have sacrificed their own life for the Way of Life which is Al-Islam.*

Muslim Creed: Are Martyrdom Operations Lawful (According to Quran and Sunnah)?

reply to post by Covertblack


Are they with you now? The major fight in these cases is always to overcome the preconceptions. You probably know people with a different point of view from your own. The ones who think they are still free, and their country can do no wrong. That will put you on opposite sides. Given the difference, you may know people that will want to kill you to preserve their perception of freedom.

Harsh... but true.

reply to post by UberL33t


It's hard to determine if this is endorsement, agreement, or an attempt to discredit by association with a current US "villain character".

I will assume it to be the second (agreement), for the following reason: The concept is essentially the same in all cultures that have achieved, or aspired toward freedom. Good intentions aside, there will be no change without blood. There can be no gain without sacrifice.

The key is in whose blood you have the right to sacrifice. The answer will certainly not be the blood of anyone but ourselves. So... do we project the hostility outward and avoid confronting the true problem, or do we put ourselves at risk to make the world better for everyone?

reply to post by CrikeyMagnet



If the issue, or problem if you will, were so blatantly obvious why wouldn't the masses all come together? If the truth or corruption were in the open I would like to believe my peers would agree with me. I understand the civil war divided families and friends, however, I would like to believe that we have seen the horrors of war and wish not to become involved in it once again.

reply to post by CrikeyMagnet


I suppose it was in agreement, in that the suggested path to righteousness as you've suggested bears a striking resemblance to the aforementioned.

However, where I personally come to a crossroads is due to the question of what will be the result of said path? More, what exactly needs to be fixed?

Here's where it becomes a conundrum because now your dealing with individual bias. There in, for any change to occur, whether it is reverting back to what our forefathers established or evolving into a singular civilization, there will relatively be a resistance no matter the proposed outcome.

In a nutshell, there is no one way of one civilization to come to fruition that is going to appease the masses (with our current level of intelligence), so regardless if the people were to take a violent stand, the end result will still have a bitter taste in the mouth of someone and the end result may be a case of leaping out of the pan and into the fire.

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by CrikeyMagnet

 

If the issue, or problem if you will, were so blatantly obvious why wouldn't the masses all come together? If the truth or corruption were in the open I would like to believe my peers would agree with me. I understand the civil war divided families and friends, however, I would like to believe that we have seen the horrors of war and wish not to become involved in it once again.

edit on 26-4-2012 by Covertblack because: added a ?

What is obvious to some is not so to others. Only a small percentage of people currently living in the US have seen the horrors of war. Even fewer have seen massive casualties on their own side as a result of it. All we are typically told by the news is how righteous our killing of others was. Except for those couple occasions where a couple of "bad apples" are paraded as an example of how things can go wrong. These cases are made to look isolated, and not integral to the system we are all a part of.

Does the current rhetoric around invading Iran suggest that we've seen the horror of war and wish not to become involved in it once again?

Originally posted by UberL33t
reply to post by CrikeyMagnet
...so regardless if the people were to take a violent stand, the end result will still have a bitter taste in the mouth of someone and the end result may be a case of leaping out of the pan and into the fire.

Agreed. Things can easily be made worse by taking action. And not everyone will be happy, because there can never be a solution that appeases everyone. Some will not be happy because it takes away their power. Levels the playing field. Some because they like the way things are now (or have been told repeatedly that they like the way things are now... which often amounts to the same.)

But once people have the rebellious spirit in their hearts, they will not stay in the fire for long. If the new state is not favourable, or not tenable, they will change again and again until it sticks. This now makes me curious how many attempts there were to unify the US before the current Constitution came into being. There must have been some false starts back there... (I freely admit that I'm not a student of US history -- being from Canada -- but that I suspect many students of US history are similarly unaware of pre-Constitution constitutions...) If nothing else, that should be a fun thing to look into.

It even occurs to me that 'The Republic of Missouri" has a good ring to it. As we've seen in other upheavals, the country being transformed does not always keep the same borders. It may get a lot more of them.

I like the way you think but it won't happen. Heck, we can't even get people to stop participating with and feeding the machine. Too much risk.

reply to post by frazzle


I think it will happen whether we want it to or not. Some person who will likely be forgotten by history will challenge the right thing at the right time, and it will catch on. It will likely even start as a simple symbolic protest, but as soon as that symbolic protest is used to send a symbolic message to any symbolic supporters, the symbol will be used to justify terrible actions.

Decades later, the initial person's name will be changed, and he or she will be made into a giant who can shoot fireballs out of his or her fingers, but the reality of it will likely be much more forgettable, and less... dramatized for television. It may have already happened... and it just hasn't caught on yet.

I don't know if you can feel it... but there's a general mood to the populace these days. Not a good one, but a frustrated one. Frustration is always dangerous. It can't be held back forever.

To quote Jeff Goldblum "Nature... uh... uh... finds a way."

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet
reply to post by frazzle

 

I think it will happen whether we want it to or not. Some person who will likely be forgotten by history will challenge the right thing at the right time, and it will catch on. It will likely even start as a simple symbolic protest, but as soon as that symbolic protest is used to send a symbolic message to any symbolic supporters, the symbol will be used to justify terrible actions.

Decades later, the initial person's name will be changed, and he or she will be made into a giant who can shoot fireballs out of his or her fingers, but the reality of it will likely be much more forgettable, and less... dramatized for television. It may have already happened... and it just hasn't caught on yet.

I don't know if you can feel it... but there's a general mood to the populace these days. Not a good one, but a frustrated one. Frustration is always dangerous. It can't be held back forever.

To quote Jeff Goldblum "Nature... uh... uh... finds a way."

Oh, I don't disagree that it will happen, it surely will. And yes, I definitely feel the shifting mood of the people. I just object to things like radical surgery when other less invasive methods are not tried first (like a total shutdown by the people). And I also acknowledge the fact that radical political surgery will happen anyway, whether or not we first attempt to set things right non-violently.

I will probably have some doubts about the initial person's true motives, though, because the powers are literally itching for an uprising so they can put it down by their favored methods. And that could be a factor in the shortage of heroes stepping up to take the credit/blame.

Originally posted by frazzle
I will probably have some doubts about the initial person's true motives, though, because the powers are literally itching for an uprising so they can put it down by their favored methods. And that could be a factor in the shortage of heroes stepping up to take the credit/blame.

Given the itching, those powers could easily send out their own hero specifically to make an example. Fake an insurrection and flatten it. We could always get lucky and have people pay attention this time, though.

(Insert nervous smiley here.)

reply to post by CrikeyMagnet


You're exactly right, it could easily start that way. They keep pushing us harder against the wall and we keep not reacting, so one wonders how long they'll wait to send in their own re-actors.