Original Sin - Do You Understand What it Means?

Indeed, or maybe he simply lived his life then died.

Didn't think judging others was permitted, but I guess that only applies if you want it to.
The wavering atheist prayer fits best here.....

"Dear Lord, save me from your followers...."

Just thought Id add one more.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men....

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.


I dont know if that fits the "original sin" concept, more like Adam was the first to sin...But really, somebody would have eventually anyways right? And in the same way one man (Jesus) redeemed us all with one sacrifice.


Random side track... what if sin has nothing to do with our ego? What if, in the realm of existance where God lives, sin has an actual physical property?

That would make the argument that we are here on Earth to learn to "transcend" that sin make a lot more sense...

Just my two cents.

reply to post by AQuestion


Personally I find their to be one sin against god
A crime for which the punishment is always death

For which the bible metaphorically is correct since to live is to know about that which is good and evil
( [ evil ] backwards is live ) like existing through the rewinding of the universes cassette tape.

That sin is to live
For life is a crime punishable by death
But it's only a crime once you've been caught
but if you do anything long enough eventually everyone gets caught in the end

To have tasted life is to know death

"I [Lucifer] am the flame that burns in every heart of man, and in the core of every star. I am Life, and the giver of Life, yet therefore is the knowledge of me the knowledge of death..." -Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law. 21

Four steps to life conseption begetting and then birth/beginning of our end
In order the alpha and the omega; the beginning and the end
Alpha is like the beginning and omega the eventual end

reply to post by nusnus

he wants us to develope enough understanding, to be able to chose what it right and good because we know, and understand why, it is good...
he doesn't want mindless slave who will do everything he says because were're afraid of the consequences, but rather he wants us to be able to judge it oursleves and make the correct judgement, because we want to, we know it's the right thing to do, we understand the consequences of all the choices available, are able to connect with the pain we may cause others, ect.
angels can go into a city and destroy everything, at the command of god, and feel no remorse, not really caring about the pain they may of caused to innocent children.
he wanted more than angels.

sorry, double post....

reply to post by dawnstar


You win the million dollar check! xD Congratulations! hahha

Original sin is the Christian concept of the fall of man. I believe it's as simple as that. Without Adam and Eve eating the fruit, then there would be no need for Jesus. This is also why I feel that original sin is an important concept to Christians.

Romans 5:12 sums it up nicely:

sin entered the world through one man, and through sin - death, and thus death has spread through the whole human race because everyone has sinned.

I disagree that sin requires intent. Adam and Eve, I reckon, didn't know any better. Should they have been punished as harsh as they were? No. Would you punish your young children for playing with a loaded gun they found? You may have told them not to once before, but if they don't understand your message, they're going to continue to do it out of curiosity.

reply to post by novastrike81


No it's not. Original Sin is a doctrine that teaches that Adam's sin passes to all mankind. It's different than saying we as men inherit a sin nature from Adam. Original Sin proponents hold that babies and the mentally retarded go to Hell without accepting Christ.

Adam and Eve, I reckon, didn't know any better. Should they have been punished as harsh as they were?

Eve was deceived, not Adam, he chose to join his wife in her spiritual death. He knew she ate the fruit, and chose to do it also.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
No it's not. Original Sin is a doctrine that teaches that Adam's sin passes to all mankind. It's different than saying we as men inherit a sin nature from Adam.

Which is what I said. Man inheritted sin from Adam, but not Adam's sinful nature. We aren't held responsible for his sins, but we did acquire the sinful nature from their fall; hence "fall of man".

Original Sin proponents hold that babies and the mentally retarded go to Hell without accepting Christ.

Which isn't far off base. If we are all born into sin, and we have to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior, then technically all babies and those that are unable to make a decision on their own go to Hell. I can't recall if there is a scripture referring an age of accountability.

I think it's a f*cked up system, but I'm not God and didn't create such a system to begin with.

Eve was deceived, not Adam, he chose to join his wife in her spiritual death. He knew she ate the fruit, and chose to do it also.

The only issue I have with this "spiritual death" is that I've not found any scripture to support that God said they would die a "spiritual" death. I think it's just Christians working around a contradiction that needs to be addressed. If God said they would spiritually die if they ate the fruit, then why not say that. He just said they would die, and they didn't.

Also, that's not the point I was making. Did Adam and Eve understand what they were doing? They were born perfect and without sin. So they would have no understanding of right/wrong or good/evil before they ate the fruit. Like I said, if you tell your toddler to not touch a hot stove or they will get burned, do you think they understand what you told them? No, because 9/10 they are going to touch the hot stove. Which is why I think God's punishment was quite severe and him throwing a tantrum over it was rather unneccesary. He should have seen it coming, but he didn't.

Originally posted by novastrike81
Like I said, if you tell your toddler to not touch a hot stove or they will get burned, do you think they understand what you told them? No, because 9/10 they are going to touch the hot stove. Which is why I think God's punishment was quite severe and him throwing a tantrum over it was rather unneccesary. He should have seen it coming, but he didn't.

He saw it comming, trusted them but was abused of His trust. He then knew punishment was the only way to make mankind learn, for we mankind DID need that analogous stove. He could have banned the stove to save us, but did not, for it would have curtailed our inane and deep rooted desire for knowledge, progress and evolution., but responsibly done.

And what was His punishment? Certainly not death for Adam and Eve, but only banishment from Eden, with life, His guidance, gifts and free will to live, to propogate and fill the stars. If this is not original mercy, I know not what is. Tyrants, even modern day ones, would have had our heads on a pike if we so much as disobeyed or spilt milk.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
He saw it comming, trusted them but was abused of His trust. He then knew punishment was the only way to make mankind learn, for we mankind DID need that analogous stove. He could have banned the stove to save us, but did not, for it would have curtailed our inane and deep rooted desire for knowledge, progress and evolution., but responsibly done.

If he saw it coming, then why did God ask where they were after they ate the fruit? Then, proceed to ask them if they ate from the tree they were told not to eat from. Sounds like he didn't know to me.

And what was His punishment? Certainly not death for Adam and Eve, but only banishment from Eden, with life, His guidance, gifts and free will to live, to propogate and fill the stars. If this is not original mercy, I know not what is. Tyrants, even modern day ones, would have had our heads on a pike if we so much as disobeyed or spilt milk.

It was death, they returned to the dust they were made from, and they were banned. Do you believe Adam and Eve were created to live forever?

reply to post by nusnus


Dear nusnus,

And that is God is the only Perfect being, and everything that is His creation, will never be completely perfect. (Its important to note the definition of perfection here, as something that functions fully but not without weaknesses) He knowing this, still created mankind, knowing full well how or what he would do when given a choice. So God planned the whole thing, humans, earth, hell and heaven all of it in one go. He didn't just create us expecting us to obey him 100%. He expected us to NOT to obey him or at least forget some of His commands. He depended on it actually. So the question you need to ask yourself after this is: WHY? Why does God depend on us to make mistakes, to err, to be HUMAN?

Sorry for the delay in the response. I have been busy. Perfection is a process of continual change. Yes he made us imperfect, the fruit was merely our first mistake; but, the ability to make mistakes is innate in all of us. We also have the ability to overcome and to do good. The choice is what defines us and makes us ourselves rather than just robots. Peace.

reply to post by justanobody


Thank You for explaining that I thought I was going to have to do all that work.
Blessings

reply to post by nusnus


Why does God depend on us to make mistakes, to err, to be HUMAN?

If you guess the answer you'll win this million dollar check I'm holding in my hand (ok maybe not so real but humor me)

So we will accept his Grace by the Blood shed on the cross by Jesus Christ, in turn everlasting life.

Originally posted by novastrike81
It was death, they returned to the dust they were made from, and they were banned. Do you believe Adam and Eve were created to live forever?

Yes it was death, but we still have the option of life. I think its more of an earned thing now. Instead of everybody, evil and good included, getting eternal life, we have to show that we can follow and trust in God before he gives it to us. Its not a free ride.

I think eden was a test, but not to prove anything to God. He knew what would happen. I think it was to teach us why we are not perfect.

Most of what God does is for us, we take so long to really grasp certain things. He knows where everyone is going, but if you woke up in eternal punishment, would you grasp why you were there if you had never lived? Even if God knew that you would show up there, would it be right to not let you make your own decisions first?

By letting us make our own mistakes, he shows his love and forgiveness for us. Then its our choice. We dont have to follow him. But I think we need this "testing ground" to choose.

Its the same reason you need 12 years in school to learn.

reply to post by osirys
A member of the Jehovah Witness church mentioned to me the other day the Original Sin had nothing to do with Eve eating the apple but rather to Cain killing Abel.

Can anyone shed some more light on this revelation.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by osirys

 

A member of the Jehovah Witness church mentioned to me the other day the Original Sin had nothing to do with Eve eating the apple but rather to Cain killing Abel.

Can anyone shed some more light on this revelation.

Sure, the first to sin was Eve, then Adam.

reply to post by novastrike81

If he saw it coming, then why did God ask where they were after they ate the fruit? Then, proceed to ask them if they ate from the tree they were told not to eat from. Sounds like he didn't know to me.

Because it was a question meant to inspire introspection. God wasn't lost, Adam was.

reply to post by NOTurTypical
That's not what this person said to me. So this appears to be contradictory interpretation of what The Original Sin was.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That's not what this person said to me. So this appears to be contradictory interpretation of what The Original Sin was.

Dude, remember the fact that you were talking to a Jehovah's Witness. They invented their own Bible called the "New World Translation" (NWT) by men who had no functioning knowledge of Greek or Hebrew.