Original Sin - Do You Understand What it Means?

I have read many people who have posted that they don't accept religion because they don't understand why we should all be punished because someone ate a piece of fruit. The reference to Adam and Eve is mistaken. Sin means to fall short of perfection, to be imperfect. It requires an intent, the intent to do something that you know you should not do. Eve may have been the first to sin; but, we are not held accountable for her actions, we are held accountable for ours. The bible also teaches that there is only one unforgivable sin and it isn't being human or "original sin".

In the Old Testament God says to Cain that if he does wrong then sin will be waiting for him. It did not say doing wrong or making mistakes was sin. It refers to knowing what you are doing is selfish and wrong. The ability and choice to do wrong is in everyone and we are all descendents of Adam and Eve; therefore, we are all capable of doing wrong.

The name Jesus Christ means "God's Salvation" or "God's forgiveness". We are told to pray, "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Jesus tells us that salvation is related to forgiveness. Jesus was asked which of the commandments was the most important, he said, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. Wouldn't it make sense that violating the commandment that Jesus gave to be the one? We are not held accountable for what Eve did, it was just the first time one of us sinned.

I expect responses from Atheists and Christians who attempt to give the explanation they were taught from some Fundamentalist that knew the words but missed the point. For those who choose to, I ask that you first explain which commandment is more important than the one that Jesus said was the most important.

IMHO "original sin" isn't Biblical. Adam's sins didn't pass to all of us, he is responsible for his own sins. He just passed to us a "sin nature" and to us it's not a matter of "if" but "when". Original sin doctrine holds that infants go to Hell.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Dear NOTurTypical,

We are in perfect agreement, I am so happy. Peace.

please clarify:

you're saying 'original Sin is the one jesus answered as being the most important Commandment?

if so, how did you get from Original to most Important?

My wife seems to think that it is 'leaving the toilet seat up'.



Go figure.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Dear NOTurTypical,

We are in perfect agreement, I am so happy. Peace.

I'll remember this day forever, it's like the 3rd or 4th time someone has said that around here.

Seriously, even David said he would go to his late infant son one day and his son wouldn't return to him. Right there shatters Original Sin doctrine.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
My wife seems to think that it is 'leaving the toilet seat up'.

Go figure.

No, that's #2. Original sin is when you tell the truth and let her know her butt looks fat in the pants she is wearing.

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
please clarify:

you're saying 'original Sin is the one jesus answered as being the most important Commandment?

if so, how did you get from Original to most Important?

Dear BiggerPicture,

Well, if we accept that there is only one unforgivable sin as it says in the bible then is it the first sin you commit or the one that is the most important? They are not the same. One had to do with disobeying God, the other had to do with not having love in your heart for others. You don't go to hell for the original one, it is not about disobeying God, it is about not having love in your heart. Does that clarify?

So god put out a production line that didn't meet regulation requirements, so all the products it made were faulty... And somehow that's the fault of the products?

That's like getting mad at a lead-paint covered toy from China.... Doesn't make sense.

Shouldn't of outsourced you idiot!

hmmm,, saying original wrongdoing is the first wrongdoing assumes wrongdoing WILL be commited - what kind of lower expectation is that of a holy book? to me it sounds more like intrinsic sin. seems an issue of lost in translation, tsk, tsk..

oh and whats this about Eve's wrongdoing not counting but Adam's wrongdoing does - wreaks of a double standard, no?!

reply to post by AQuestion


Couldn't have said it better myself. People who follow Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are all under the impression that because Adam and Eve ate fruit, we're all paying for their sins. Which, as you described perfectly well, is not the case.

I'm really glad for reading your post - S&F for you, friend.

^ yeah. maybe original sin is the state of being made imperfect and mortal,

yet given "free will".with limitations of course.

catch 22?

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
hmmm,, saying original wrongdoing is the first wrongdoing assumes wrongdoing WILL be commited - what kind of lower expectation is that of a holy book? to me it sounds more like intrinsic sin. seems an issue of lost in translation, tsk, tsk..

oh and whats this about Eve's wrongdoing not counting but Adam's wrongdoing does - wreaks of a double standard, no?!

Actually it assumes that it MAY be committed. You ask if that is a low expectation, it is the bar that we met and continue to meet till this day. Perhaps you think we don't do wrong to one another? The better question is it an accurate assessment of us to say that we will do wrong until we learn that it is better to do right? As for your statement about Adam and Eve, you have it backwards, Eve ate first and that was the original sin. Adam's also counted, for him, just the same as hers did for us. We are not held accountable for either if we love one another.

Priest in confessional: Do you have any original sins you want to confess, my son?
Person confessing: Yes, I flipped off the world on television.
Priest in confessional: Sorry, been done before... , Next?.

Original sin was the decision to go it alone.

The consequence was alienation from the Spirit that made us...
...and being denied access to nutrition that would assure our biological continuity.

This essential disconnect is the foundation of all human problems...
...we try and fill the void left by absence of the Spirit with substances and obsessions...
...and biologically we die.

Originally posted by charlyv
Priest in confessional: Do you have any original sins you want to confess, my son?
Person confessing: Yes, I flipped off the world on television.
Priest in confessional: Sorry, been done before... , Next?.

Dear charlyv,

What is the sin of flipping someone off? LOL. If I poke you in the eye, how is that different because it was caught on a cell phone camera? Next.

As everything in faith books is metaphor, then so is original sin. It's really about the dawning of consciousness and the responsibility this forces on a newly aware species. Having sex is just one small part of that.

God's mandate in the Garden of Eden is metaphor for the biological constraints placed on a particular species. Eating previously unnoticed fruit is a symbol for increasing consumption. Which is another way of describing the increased information processing capability of a newly evolved brain. The forbidden part was put there by people who fear this new awareness. The snake is a scary creature used to conflate independent thought with danger.

This is the extent of my interest in religion.

reply to post by jannerfish


This is the same reason that the meaning of 'Good' and 'Evil' have been flipped. Or at least, the meaning of 'Evil' has been usurped. I'm no expert but isn't the only reason we have a devil is because he had the audacity to question his boss? And for that he's called 'Evil'. 'I was only following orders' is a refrain used by those who accept no responsibility for their actions. This has come to mean 'Good.' If you continue using 'Evil' for all kinds of stomach-turning actions, then asking questions becomes synonymous with foul deeds.

And so, as with Original Sin, a metaphor for a beautiful awakening (asking questions, eating fruit) becomes a tool of abuse for those would rather keep increased awareness to themselves.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He just passed to us a "sin nature" and to us it's not a matter of "if" but "when". Original sin doctrine holds that infants go to Hell.

it did, the vatican released a new set of rules a couple of years ago. now infants that are not baptized are not going to this waiting room before hell anymore.

reply to post by AQuestion



I'm sorry I've never read the bible but I'm glad I'm not the only one who came in through the Eve angle.
The histories of all religion (what I've read) tell an amazingly similar story to each other, my question was....what the heck happened to the women? Why has it been the way it has for so long, when without the body of a mother no-one would be here at all?!

If the greatest mother of all, under our feet can stand to keep us, then there's always hope for she is awake and loves us still in spite of all that's been, as does he.
I felt the need to beg forgiveness from all the mothers daughters and sisters, who came before me, because to continue to walk this planet with ease, a healthy respect and love for both sides does heal all.