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Gary Stein, Marine Who Criticized Obama On Facebook, Will Receive Other-Than-Honorable Discharge

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posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
The biggest problem for most of the civilians on here is that when you're in the Military you respect RANK, I left the Corps as a Corporal, that means I had to respect the RANK of Sgt's and above. There have been PLENTY of times I've wanted to bounce Sgt's off of the bulkhead, Plenty of times I've wished they'd pop their chevrons off and "take it to the treeline" Did I hate them as human beings? Yes, did I ever let it get in the way of my professionalism? No, because Like a good Marine, I respected those Chevrons on their collar...not the man.

As a member of the Armed Forces, you respect the CIC, Commander In Chief. You're not respecting "The Man" whether it be Obama, Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Abe Lincoln etc... you respect his position because he currently holds "the office of the president"



Open thoes baby blues,
If soldiers don't have recourse and outlets of expression, well,
Perhaps you might understand it this way. Would you do what ever the MIC Lt Calli told you? I'm guessing yes.
Also remember Obama poomised that marine the wars would be over.
Also remember that is the LIE he got elected on.
Nixon stopped the war. Lincoln stoped a bullet.
Bush didn't stop a war. He got kicked out because of that .
Clinton, well he was a lover.


My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre - Similarto My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The My Lai Massacre 1] was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States ...

Do you think the punishments for these two men are equal?? You know Calli and Stein




posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


thanks!

Your words of intellectual superiority really lead me to further analysis of my persona and my motivations when forming arguments for discussion. I find that while you may be slightly interested in dialogue, ultimately you want simply to argue that this marine is somehow at fault and is in fact in a state of dishonor. I would concur, as I have preciously, with you on the fact that the rules say he cannot enter in this activity for which he stands accused.

I do how ever find that the rule is unethical since in its application a soldier would be violating his oath as an American to defend his country against all threats foreign and domestic. To limit his ability to even criticize his leader is wrong since his leader may be in fact a possible traitor to his office and his nation.

The argument for this silence of a fellow patriot draws many similarities to what occurred in Nazi Germany after the Nazi party consolidated power and revoked all civil liberties much like PATRIOT act did in the USA. There are many examples of how this form of censorship is un-American and unconstitutional and thus is invalid. It is cancelled out since if it is in violation of the constitution, it cannot be mandated by the same government that gets its validity to exist from the constitution.

To circumvent our civil liberties when so protected in the constitution is not only unethical for a democratic society, but it is a grievous assault on our societies values.

I do not appreciate being called names such as "troll" or "liberal" or things of the sort for being critical of anyone's argument. I certainly don't like the implied threat to my person by recommending we be careful and mindful of repercussions.

It is this very attitude that I wish to address when speaking about this fellow Americans plight against a government that is replete of Nazi ideology that is at its core TRAITORUS to our nation.

I apologize for the tardiness of my response but being occupied with work as I am, I found little enough time to form this argument mimicking your vain attempt at intellectualism, dark rounded logic, and personal assaults.

you might refrain from further engaging me in uncivil dialogue since I do not take the matter lightly as it is I find the whole premise of your accusations laughable and ingenuous. Please refrain from using intellectualism to try and pry dialogue from the average man due to his reacting to your insults by eliciting an emotional response by which his validity comes into question.

EDIT:
Murphy's law-
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong".


edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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I'm sure it's already been said but this USMC Sgt. is an American and Americans have Freedom of Speech. Until he actually disobeyed an order he should still be able to serve his country. That's how I feel.

Facebook lol It amazes me how people put all their info on it and say things or post pictures on it that get them in trouble. Facebook is monitored by everyone, including the 3-letter organizations.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by decepticonLaura
this is so farcical
what could they hope to achieve here?
dude stated a view, one that is clearly held by many....
by kicking him out do they think they will eradicate this view?
they can't think that
they're not that dumb, are they?
yet they act it!
instead of addressing the wider issue here
it is back to the old hierarchic mainstays
"shut your mouth and obey your elders and betters"

right, anyone still wondering why the world is a mess?


Hi dec,
I just finished composing this and then saw your post.
I hope you don't mind me posting it here?
I see some similarity.

the best ljb

It is a shame so many of these issues get turned into left right debates.
I know this is not the military of conscription but one of voluntary well paid people.
Would this man have faired better as a conscript?
I really don't like to argue these things as there really are no winners in situations like these.
I love my country and the people that hold it together.
I have unlimited respect for our fighting folks. I like the majority of Americans are fed up with the disrespect the top has for these individuals. They are used in offensive campaigns that have nothing to do with the defense of America. At least a recognizable one.
The surviving wounded languish in infectious hospitals, commit suicide at alarming rates,
and are given virtual shrinks as an option for PDSD. Is it any wonder the guy is pissed?
If they dealt fairly with Gary they could have discharged him honorably and compensated him for his tenure.
He would then be out of their hair and we most likely would never have heard of the entire mess.
Conscription - Definition and More from the Free ...
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conscription - Similarto Conscription - Definition and More from the Free ...

Definition of CONSCRIPTION. : compulsory enrollment of persons especially for military service : draft · See conscription defined for English-language learners » ...

edit on 4/26/2012 by longjohnbritches because: ]



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
This idiot claims to be a true patriot by not wanting to follow illegal orders...yet he has been in the core for nine(9) years...where was his supposed conscience during the Bush years?


You know the war based on lies from Bush...the illegal war. Where was this great man during that time....just another idiot who hates that Obama is president.


He is just choosing what is right and wrong based on who he likes as president.

There are rules by which you choose to follow when you choose the military ...when you don't follow these rules ...S**T happens....he should quit crying and take his punishment...idiot.


Hi ker
I see you got a few stars for this post.
I honestly do not see this as a partisam issue.
I think he like the rest of the world was in total shock and awe during the Bush regime.
You know it takes awhile to wake up!
try no doze ljb



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


it most certainly is not a partisan issue. Fascism is neither left nor right. Fascism takes both and plays with issues both are concerned with and offers a uniform view that encompasses all parties views without offering a solution. It usually talks of unity and intolerance to dissidents, essentially equating them to enemies of state.

Left (liberal)
Right (conservative)

both are just labels given to divide the common man. Neither are true to their foundations. Republicans used to defend the constitution and force the government to spend less and have less oversight over state affairs. Now, their platform is actually the opposite of that, indicating they have traded ideologies for what I suspect is a reborn form of Nazi-ism. Democrats openly embrace the naturism and humanism associated with Nazi occultist beliefs. This too is indicative of a greater loss of integrity due to subversion and infiltration.

The danger of this is that both parties may become extinct in short order having violated the spirit of their base.


edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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Let me see if I can summarize a bit....

Camp "A" is saying that this American should have been allowed to say anything he wanted.
Camp "B" says, but he was under contract and contracts have rules. He broke the rules and was subsequently punished for it.
Camp "A" says his punishment is a travesty because he was a Marine.
Camp "B" says EXACTLY, he WAS a MARINE.



So, my thoughts....

- Camp "A" screams for special treatment for this American because of his military service, at the same time they're failing to understand his military service is whats causing the problem in the first place.

- We can argue interpretation of his contract all day, but if the boss considers him insubordinate, odds are pretty good he has evidence to back it up. I have no doubt Mr. Stein will lose his appeal.

- He should look on the bright side. Now that he's fired and just an American, and no longer a Marine, he can say anything he wants.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 

Hi Bih,
You make a lot of sense here in your posts.
Although I think that if you do a little research you will find you will be substituting
Nazi with COMMIE RED MARXIST
take the plunge
ljb



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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i really dislike it when people use "freedom of speech" to allow themselves to be a-holes. you CAN say all you want. he did exercise his rights and he didn't go to jail for it. did he lose his job? yes. that's perfectly legal and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

if you went into work (lets just say it's a coffee shop) and proudly announced your hatred of your boss and that you didn't respect him/her and you weren't going to make the coffee when you were told.... you're going to get fired!!! simple. you exercised your freedom to say what you wanted and didn't go to jail for it but you lost your job.

you can't go around talking crap about your boss. well, you CAN but you're going to get fired. it's legal to talk smack but you can still lose your job for it.


why is that so hard to understand??



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


Hi,
thanks. I see what you are saying. I feel as follows.
There really isn't a difference. It is all a means to an end. Whatever ideology they profess for recruitment purposes, they expunge once power is consolidated. We often fail to realize that they honestly don't believe in much else except what is convenient to power. A perversion of whatever system is in place begins under whatever pretense they wish. Later the ideology morphs into the antithesis of its supposed reason for being.

Look at the soviet union. They started out with the typical workers rights and common man rhetoric. Eventually the upper echelon of society ignored the precepts of communism and adopted an almost fully capitalistic way of life. The only people forced to live up to the ideology of the nation are the worker class.

Look to the US with this man. Had this happened 60 years ago it would be a non issue. The fact that an American says something critical of his president was a thing of beauty before. It was the incarnation of our civil liberties. Now it is the act of a wrong doer. The extreme is evident in people´s responses here.

Why on earth would any American not support his fellow citizen in voicing his concerns about the power elect. Why in the world would they not support him, and criticize the law trying to take away a civil liberty that we used to identify with. The need to praise the leader is something extremist totalitarian nations look to. It is not something a free society like the US has ever supported. Rules or no rules. Those rules are anti-American and hence don't apply to us. We as a people REFUSE.

This loss of identity and usurped false sense of patriotism bordering on religious zeal has been slowly creeping. I think of how Bush jr. was often heard talking about his faith in much the same manner Hitler spoke of his own in his early years in politics. This mentality is dangerous and completely false and misleading. It uses moral precedent to force unethical and even immoral acts upon its followers. The Nazi Germany of the past was a bastion of civil liberties and social ethics. When the Nazis took over the same people were still living there so what happened?

BS rhetoric and individual stamping out of civil liberties over time coupled with fundamentalist/ extremist views being drilled into the people. We must be better.


edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by pasiphae
 


This is not like an employee criticizing his boss. It is more akin to an employer criticizing an employee and being threatened by the rest of his employees for doing so.

The president is under the employment of the country. The concept of a democratic society is that the people elect their leaders and the leaders are there at the request of the people.

Should the POTUS fail in his obligations he would be deposed, like Nixon was. He was forced to leave since he was going to be impeached. Everyone that criticized him was right and did a service to the country by removing a bad leader.

This man is the boss in the situation, being the citizen he is. He has a right and an OBLIGATION to be critical of his leadership so as to demand the best possible form of leadership available.

Americans are the boss of their president. Not the other way around. Make no mistake. We are in charge. Everything else is just an illusion of power and authority. The validity they profess comes from us not themselves.

You can't be the ruler simply by the virtue of your "kicking allot of ass" in your opinion. People must support you. This marine doesn't, like many others don't. Whether or not the POTUS likes it or not is irrelevant. He shouldn't run for a public office if he doesn't like criticism, especially in the USA. Government has no say in what we think and feel. It is also morally and ethically wrong for them to try and dictate appropriate behavior for the citizenry.

We decide how we feel. Don't like it ? Then just resign, or meet us half way. You don't get the right to do as you please and please who you want to. Not in the US. Pakistan maybe, but not here.

USA for American´S.


In some civil law jurisdictions, defamation is dealt with as a crime rather than a tort. The United Nations Commission on Human Rights ruled in 2012 that the criminalization of libel violates Freedom of expression and is inconsistent with Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.


losing your job because you criticize the grand leader is BS and un-American.

en.wikipedia.org...



edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by pasiphae
i really dislike it when people use "freedom of speech" to allow themselves to be a-holes. you CAN say all you want. he did exercise his rights and he didn't go to jail for it. did he lose his job? yes. that's perfectly legal and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

if you went into work (lets just say it's a coffee shop) and proudly announced your hatred of your boss and that you didn't respect him/her and you weren't going to make the coffee when you were told.... you're going to get fired!!! simple. you exercised your freedom to say what you wanted and didn't go to jail for it but you lost your job.

you can't go around talking crap about your boss. well, you CAN but you're going to get fired. it's legal to talk smack but you can still lose your job for it.


why is that so hard to understand??


I would say this Marine made the coffee and served it to his masters. He joked on his own time.
Maybe you forgot he is a veteran of foreign war. A tour in Iraq is more than just coffee beans.

Here are a couple snips from
Marine who criticized Obama will be dismissed - latimes.com
www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-marine-discharged-20120426,0,4525511.story


"Even though I will be discharged no one can take the title of Marine away from me," the post said. "...Today is just the start of the rest of my life. Semper Fi."


Stein's current enlistment would have ended in late July. He had hoped to reenlist.
================================================================================
This guy most likely new he was setting him self up for the fall.
Some times lambs go to slaughter
Semper Fi ljb



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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I was in the US Army for 5 years ... back in the 1980s.
Back then we were not allowed to say anything negative about others in the service.
Technically, the POTUS is the Commander in Chief ... outranking even the generals.
The POTUS may be the biggest buffoon in the military, but if you are in uniform you can't say so.
At least, that's how it was when I was in ... waaaaaaay back when ...



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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I'm no supporter of the military, in fact, I think it is idiotically managed and maintained.

That having been said, this guy broke one of their idiotic rules after he agreed to abide by them.

Anyone who thinks he should keep his job needs to get on Facebook, friend their boss, and then call him names and question his judgement.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
I'm no supporter of the military, in fact, I think it is idiotically managed and maintained.

That having been said, this guy broke one of their idiotic rules after he agreed to abide by them.

Anyone who thinks he should keep his job needs to get on Facebook, friend their boss, and then call him names and question his judgement.


Hi fur,
I think the moral of the story here will be, stay the heck off FACE BOOK.
cheers ljb
PS btw does anyone think he may have come here to ATS to vent also??
edit on 4/26/2012 by longjohnbritches because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


I think you could also add, "Don't join the military", to the overall moral.

regards,



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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the Sgt. should be getting counsel from the Corps. legal Eagles...

He might get a General or Administrative discharge under honorable conditions
and a re-enlistment code which would allow he to re-Enlist & start over again...

tough way to learn that 'Loose Lips Sink Ships'

did he encourage others to disregard orders? or did he just post a hypothetical for himself?
edit on 26-4-2012 by St Udio because: degree of refusal



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Furbs
 


the POTUS is no citizens boss. He is an elected leader. Not Jesus Christ.


edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Hi fly,
The good old days eh. Thanks for being there.
Why did you discharge??
lol ljb



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by 200Plus
 





This guy swore an oath to obey the orders of President of the United States and then said he would refuse to honor that oath. What is a soldier without honor?


So the question begs to be asked, what if this marine was ordered, by the president and chain of command to fire upon civilians in his own country at a political protest, or since you hate "libs" at say, an OWS protest, what would you say is the honourable thing to do then. Would his oath(s) mean he had to fire as ordered, or would his oath(s) mean he had to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens he was ordered to fire upon?

I am really interested to see your reply, if you can formulate one that is.



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