Gary Stein, Marine Who Criticized Obama On Facebook, Will Receive Other-Than-Honorable Discharge

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posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I have to pull back on my position a little as I jumped in my first post.


...and he should be dismissed after ignoring warnings from his superiors about his postings.



Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.



"The Marine Corps gave him the opportunity to think about his actions, yet Sgt. Stein continued to undermine the chain of command," said Umberg, who was not involved in Stein's case. "I think his purpose was to leave the Marine Corps in a dramatic fashion in order to begin a career in talk radio or what have you."


*****


Im a little conflicted here, because if he had been posting at home, or when he was away from his duty, not using his rank or military identifiers, I would have to agree with his right for free speech.

Given that he is making a political statement, and made a page about Obama (at first I thought it was just a status update) AND he was warned from his superiors, AND he continued...

I really don't know what this guy was thinking.

If it was just the original comment, ""Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him." , there is context that can be implied there, and its not to say it's worthy of a discharge, HOWEVER...

His other postings and actions makes it sound like he was asking for it...
edit on 26-4-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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here, the dictatorship your supposed security needs. Enjoy.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 03:46 AM
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This idiot claims to be a true patriot by not wanting to follow illegal orders...yet he has been in the core for nine(9) years...where was his supposed conscience during the Bush years?


You know the war based on lies from Bush...the illegal war. Where was this great man during that time....just another idiot who hates that Obama is president.


He is just choosing what is right and wrong based on who he likes as president.

There are rules by which you choose to follow when you choose the military ...when you don't follow these rules ...S**T happens....he should quit crying and take his punishment...idiot.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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this is so farcical
what could they hope to achieve here?
dude stated a view, one that is clearly held by many....
by kicking him out do they think they will eradicate this view?
they can't think that
they're not that dumb, are they?
yet they act it!
instead of addressing the wider issue here
it is back to the old hierarchic mainstays
"shut your mouth and obey your elders and betters"

right, anyone still wondering why the world is a mess?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:16 AM
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This guy is a true patriot. God bless his balls. I bet many Germans wished more people would have spoken out as Hitler gently seized power with similar policies and actions of our current and former presidents.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by decepticonLaura
this is so farcical
what could they hope to achieve here?
dude stated a view, one that is clearly held by many....
by kicking him out do they think they will eradicate this view?
they can't think that
they're not that dumb, are they?
yet they act it!
instead of addressing the wider issue here
it is back to the old hierarchic mainstays
"shut your mouth and obey your elders and betters"

right, anyone still wondering why the world is a mess?


Here's the thing , in the Military we have a set of guidelines that we operate by, it's called the UCMJ , or Uniform Code Of Military Justice, think of it as your job's "Employee Handbook" on steroids.

Now like most jobs there are areas in that document involving employment policies, practices and procedures, ethics, standards of conduct...etc

Like I've been trying to explain to civilians that have not yet read the UCMJ, but still feel the need to give their opinion on it.

"If you made a facebook page about your boss and he/she found out would you expect to keep your job?"

It would probably violate the "Ethics & Code of Conduct" section in your "Employee Handbook" Is that a violation of your 1st amendment rights? No, you are entitled to say whatever you want, It isn't illegal...but there may be repercussions involved.

Now, if you were terminated from your job for posting negative things about your boss on facebook, would you then try to accuse your company of trying to silence you and eradicate your view? Of course not, that's what happens when you get caught posting about your boss, the rest of the employees would think you're an idiot. (This is how most of us that understand the UCMJ feel about this topic)

It doesn't matter if you and all of the employees at your job hate the boss and you talk smack about him everyday in the break room. YOU CAN'T POST IT PUBLICLY AND EXPECT NOTHING TO HAPPEN.

I know it's a hard concept for you guys/gals that never served to understand, I'm trying to explain it in a way that makes sense. There is no conspracy, no agenda... the dude burned himself. Just like If you did the same at your job, you would get no sympathy from the other employees... just a look of "what's wrong with you?"



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
here, the dictatorship your supposed security needs. Enjoy.


What are you talking about?



Originally posted by BIHOTZ
This guy is a true patriot. God bless his balls. I bet many Germans wished more people would have spoken out as Hitler gently seized power with similar policies and actions of our current and former presidents.


What does hitler seizing power have to do with a Marine stepping on his (you know) and violating the UCMJ?

Are we talking about the same topic?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:35 AM
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absolute security was Nazi Germanys reason for suspending civil liberties like the Patriot act did. Shortly after Hitler seized control of all government functions. This was all done after a BS plot by the communist they made up to supposedly to burn the Reichstag building. It was a lie much like many suspect 9/11 was. They passed the Reichstag fire decree shortly after (PATRIOT ACT) and commenced to arrest and punish all dissidents. Much like this poor marine.






"What does Hitler seizing power have to do with a Marine stepping on his (you know) and violating the UCMJ?"


Marines are here to protect the US, not the presidents reputation. If it is in the rules then it is against the rules since it impedes their function of protectors of the constitution and the USA.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I think our issue is with the trend in the US to get involved in the citizenry's personal life. There is an attitude being passed down from Washington that is changing our country into a new form of fascism. Fascism in the end is neither left or right. It is actually in the middle and usually borrows from both. The main purpose in such a system is to control all aspects of civil life.

The US better wake up about all these "noble" ideas that will eventually build to a greater set of laws that regulate everything from food rationing to water usage/ shower rights. It is dangerous to walk down that road. No nation that has taken those steps and that direction has avoided complete fascism. Germany was a bastion of civil liberties until Hitler and the Nazi party slowly took over. The process was slow like in the US. The mentality of the people was first changed.

Once the cat had shown her nails though, everyone regretted it. The same thing will happen here. The only difference is that many will DIE instead of just feeling bad about it all.

The US has had Nazi supporters since before WW2. They have through big business and lobbyists, changed the US way of thought. They will eventually change the government into their dream form. Nazi Germany.

They have tried to take power before orchestrating a Coup d'état. Had it not been for one general we would have had a civil war thanks to them. They have not given up.


The White House Putsch was an Congressionally-investigated conspiracy of moneyed interests which tried to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt during the early years of the Great Depression. The allegations of the plot came to light when Marine Corps General Smedley Butler testified to the existence of the plot before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee in 1933 [1].

In this testimony, Butler claimed that a group of several men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a fascist military coup using the recently created American Liberty League constructed for the purpose of the coup with the model being the 1930's French fascist Croix de Feu.
SO the American Liberty League was FASCIST?
They wanted a dictatorship like the Nazis?
What does that say about "labels" and "slogans"?

In their final report, the Congressional committee supported Butler's allegations on the existence of the plot [2], but no prosecutions or further investigations followed.


www.takeoverworld.info...

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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The regulations seem vague but if Sgt.Stein made mocked-up posters of Obama, isn't that the equivalent of mocking your boss at work?

If I tried the same thing, I would probably be warned or even fired at the very least. Employers DO monitor Facebook nowadays.

I find it hard to sympathize with Sgt.Stein.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:42 AM
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The biggest problem for most of the civilians on here is that when you're in the Military you respect RANK, I left the Corps as a Corporal, that means I had to respect the RANK of Sgt's and above. There have been PLENTY of times I've wanted to bounce Sgt's off of the bulkhead, Plenty of times I've wished they'd pop their chevrons off and "take it to the treeline" Did I hate them as human beings? Yes, did I ever let it get in the way of my professionalism? No, because Like a good Marine, I respected those Chevrons on their collar...not the man.

As a member of the Armed Forces, you respect the CIC, Commander In Chief. You're not respecting "The Man" whether it be Obama, Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Abe Lincoln etc... you respect his position because he currently holds "the office of the president"



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


If he had done this during the Bush years, would you still call him a true patriot?

Again, if you insult your boss publicly, you can expect similar punishment, especially if that boss is already monitoring you!



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


are you charged with a sacred duty, or do you like sell insurance? there is a difference. We need thinking marines, not mindless robots. I find it difficult to have sympathy for Americans who look down on free speech.

EDIT:
IN a small bussiness critisizm is encouraged since it leads to real relationships and self improvement. In COORPORATE environments it is looked down upon. So in the mind of Nazi smpathizers /proponents of coorporate mentality it is looked down upon.

Small business made the US. Corporate America ruined it. You decide who you defend.
edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


You do understand that all of your posts have been purely out of emotion and fully devoid of any fact's and/or logic right?

Do you even understand what we're talking about?

This is akin to arguing about the constitution with someone who's never read it and is completely clueless as to its workings. Please do me a favor, take a minute read the UCMJ and then argue your point all you want, that way you'll have facts to support your opinion.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by The Sword
 


are you charged with a sacred duty, or do you like sell insurance? there is a difference. We need thinking marines, not mindless robots. I find it difficult to have sympathy for Americans who look down on free speech.


You're entitled to think what you want, You can even say what you wan't... be ready for the repercussions. None of us are looking down on free speech or 1a, all of us have taken an Oath to support and defend the constitution and I find it difficult to have sympathy for Americans who lack basic reading comprehension to preach to others about the 1st amendment.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


I think they do. You don't. Fine. You are still morally and ethically wrong in not defending a fellow American in his obligation to keep people who hold office in public scrutiny. It may be in the rules that he can't. Everyone who is not anal retentive will agree with me. You, you can have your president loving fans try and punish him. Us American loving people will defend him. Call us emotional.

We are pissed about what our country has become, does that count as emotion?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


repercussions. How about they stop messing with a people who are historically radical and who come from a Spartan society. Be careful, or the new Nazi party will kill me? ooooh.

look they have lost every time they tried to get installed in power. They will again. They are welcome to try. They should be ready for the repercussions, them and those that support traitors.


edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


I think they do. You don't. Fine. You are still morally and ethically wrong in not defending a fellow American in his obligation to keep people who hold office in public scrutiny. It may be in the rules that he can't. Everyone who is not anal retentive will agree with me. You, you can have your president loving fans try and punish him. Us American loving people will defend him. Call us emotional.

We are pissed about what our country has become, does that count as emotion?



Originally posted by EyesWideShut

As a member of the Armed Forces, you respect the CIC, Commander In Chief. You're not respecting "The Man" whether it be Obama, Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Abe Lincoln etc... you respect his position because he currently holds "the office of the president"



My Troll Sense is tingling... Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal , all emotion & no facts.

Enjoy your circular argument, I'm punching out



STRAWMAN FALLACY

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

1.Person A has position X.

2.Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

1.Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.

2.Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[2]

3.Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]

4.Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

5.Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

3.Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 






My Troll Sense is tingling... Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal , all emotion & no facts.

Enjoy your circular argument, I'm punching out



You admit defeat and resort to calling me names......nice, thank you for the win. Are You very emotional about this that you can't use your superb logic to show me the error of my ways?

impresive.
edit on 26-4-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:24 AM
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Is it not just this simple?

Dude violated terms and conditions of his employment, dude got sacked?

That's what happens. How are people bringing Nazi Germany into this?






posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


The problem isn't me explaining my position, the problem is your profound lack of comprehension in understanding it. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You don't want debate, you want a soapbox... I'm simply giving you what you want.

Enjoy your day!




Occam's razor

a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities
edit on 26-4-2012 by EyesWideShut because: (no reason given)





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