Gary Stein, Marine Who Criticized Obama On Facebook, Will Receive Other-Than-Honorable Discharge

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
Hi sch
Well sure good behavior goes a long way.
Can you explain Exemplary to us??
thanks ljb

Thought for a sec I spelled it wrong and screwed up. If he has a really good record. or example, if he earned battle ribbons like a bronze star, good conduct medal, and had above average fitreps (fitness reports). I have no idea what his record is like, but after ten years of sevice I'm guessing he had multiple deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan so plenty of time for "heroics." If he can mount a formal appeal that includes testimony from his commanding officers, both non-coms and commissioned, it might help.

Probably a lost cause. He screwed up--no doubt about it vis a vis the UCMJ, but I kind of feel sorry for him as he was a career Marine.

But kill a boatload of "rag-heads" and be given a medal...

Biggest problem was probably that Stein doesnt understand that what is posted on facebook is public.

We had a local city official fired recently in my area for making very unbecoming comments on her own public facebook page. She actually seemed confused when she found out everyone could read it.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder


Hi shark
Thanks for helping to bring attention to the truly down trodden humans in any society.
Go VETS

reply to post by paradox

Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

since he hasn't disobeyed any orders, and had later clarified that he meant unlawful orders, i don't see how this is legal, but so few things are these days.

he'll be kicked out and left with nothing as an example, even though he never did anything wrong.

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder

Originally posted by 200Plus
From day one in the military they tell you " you defend the constitution, you are not defended by it". A soldier sacrifices his constitutional rights and gains the rights under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Do you understand the concept of "natural rights" our nation is founded on? There are rights which all people have....these rights cannot be denied by a king, a president, a contract, or any agreement. I have not read anywhere in our Constitution that "certain rights" don't apply to soldiers. Seems quite the contrary. If I am wrong someone can educate me.

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution grants Congress the power to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Biggest problem was probably that Stein doesnt understand that what is posted on facebook is public.

We had a local city official fired recently in my area for making very unbecoming comments on her own public facebook page. She actually seemed confused when she found out everyone could read it.

Don't tell me.
But is this a reason for her right to freedom of speech to be the reason she got fired ????
no sheeesh
ljb
biig broo--oh shut yo mof

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by paradox

 

Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

since he hasn't disobeyed any orders, and had later clarified that he meant unlawful orders, i don't see how this is legal, but so few things are these days.

he'll be kicked out and left with nothing as an example, even though he never did anything wrong.

He disobeyed UCMJ regulations, as has already been pointed out.

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by paradox

 

Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

since he hasn't disobeyed any orders, and had later clarified that he meant unlawful orders, i don't see how this is legal, but so few things are these days.

he'll be kicked out and left with nothing as an example, even though he never did anything wrong.

He disobeyed UCMJ regulations, as has already been pointed out.

And pointed out very very unclearly.
one mo time

Originally posted by longjohnbritches

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by paradox

 

Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

since he hasn't disobeyed any orders, and had later clarified that he meant unlawful orders, i don't see how this is legal, but so few things are these days.

he'll be kicked out and left with nothing as an example, even though he never did anything wrong.

He disobeyed UCMJ regulations, as has already been pointed out.

And pointed out very very unclearly.
one mo time

I linked you to the Article.
It would help if you read it.

You don't have "rights" in the military the way we do as civilians. It's a whole different world entirely. It's ironic that while in the military, "fighting for" and/or protecting American freedoms - you actually don't have those freedoms yourself.

Example: One man in the barracks pulls a nasty prank on another man. The ENTIRE barrack (all 40 men) are 'punished' until the guilty person comes forward.

Now, in civilian life, there's no way they'd punish everybody in an apartment complex because of the actions of one apartment resident.

The military is like an island within the US. They have their own military justice system and you can actually be tried TWICE for a crime you commit as a soldier in a civilian area.

Besides, treason is a high offence.

Insubordination, you refuse orders.He did so and it was recorded,stupid.That is what happens when you do that in a public venue.

reply to post by paradox


Thank you galent sir

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
But kill a boatload of "rag-heads" and be given a medal...

Or maybe be driving along with medical supplies and get hit by an IED and save your fellow Marines from certain death. If you care to read the citations for Medal of Honor recipients, for example, you will find almost always that they got people out of a bad situation and saved lives. They did not get a medal for simply blowing people up. They get it for putting themselves in harm's way when they didn't really have to.

Originally posted by paradox

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution grants Congress the power to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.

Indeed, it does...however you do realise that all of the federal government's powers are limited by every single amendment in the bill of Rights, don't you? No where is there an exception listed to our rights... only limits on government authority.

Also a quick definition of Natural Rights...so you know where my stance is coming from.

Natural Rights: rights not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable.

Source

Our entire nation is founded on this idea.

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Thought this WAS a FREE country..... OH I forgot.. we have a KING in the making... All Hail the King......

setting aside the military aspect....

If I bad-mouth my boss publically, I expect to be fired. In fact, I have been

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder

Originally posted by paradox

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution grants Congress the power to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.

Indeed, it does...however you do realise that all of the federal government's powers are limited by every single amendment in the bill of Rights, don't you? No where is there an exception listed to our rights... only limits on government authority.

Also a quick definition of Natural Rights...so you know where my stance is coming from.

Natural Rights: rights not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable.

Source

Our entire nation is founded on this idea.

I get where you're coming from. I don't agree entirely with the UCMJ, but the fact is they're allowed to regulate, and that's what the UCMJ is. Regulations. You're government property. You choose to sign up. You agree to their rules when you put your signature on those dotted lines.

All he is getting is an OTH discharge. No benefits isn't automatic with that discharge. It's up to the VA whether or not he will receive them. It's basically just "you're fired." It's an Administrative discharge and not a Punitive one, luckily.

reply to post by longjohnbritches


While assholes that p*ss on dead bodies rape teenagers and shoot journalists get honorable discharges...

right....

reply to post by longjohnbritches


All the regs and laws? Not a chance really.

The biggest setback or hurdle to a soldiers rights are actually covered in AR 600-20 (Army Command Policy), followed by the punitive articles of the UCMJ.

"Conduct unbecoming" was just the tip of the iceburg here, you have to look at provacative speach and gesture, disrespect to a senior officer (commander in chief), verbal assault to a senior, disobeying a direct order, gross misconduct.......... the list is endless. He actually posted "screw Obama, I won't follow his orders" then when he was called on it he said "his unlawful orders".

As far as those rights I was questioned on, I think Robert Heinlein said it best:

"Ah, yes, the 'unalienable rights.' Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is always unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it is always vanquished. Of all the so-called 'natural human rights' that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?- the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives - but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it."