So you believe in Jesus.. But which Jesus?

I watched your video RG, for good measure. I think what you and many other christians miss completely when witnessing to the heathens, is that from the heathens perspective, your reasoning is circular. And it can only be circular as long as you hold the bible up to them as the "final authority".

Circular reasoning (also known as paradoxical thinking or circular logic), is a logical fallacy in which "the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with".[1] A circular argument will always be logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true, and will not lack relevance. Circular logic cannot prove a conclusion because, if the conclusion it doubted, the premise which leads to it will also be doubted.[2] Academic Douglas Walton used the following example of a fallacious circular argument:

"Wellington is in New Zealand.
Therefore, Wellington is in New Zealand"[3]

He notes that, although the argument is deductively valid, it cannot prove that Wellington is in New Zealand. because it contains no evidence that is distinct from the conclusion. The context - that of an argument - means that the proposition does not meet the requirement of proving the statement, thus it is a fallacy. He proposes that the the context of a dialogue determines whether a circular argument is fallacious: if it forms part of an argument, then it is.[3] Citing Cederblom and Paulsen 1986:109) Hugh G. Gauch observes that non-logical facts can be difficult to capture formally:

en.wikipedia.org...

Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms. In this fallacy, the reason given is nothing more than a restatement of the conclusion that poses as the reason for the conclusion. To say, “You should exercise because it’s good for you” is really saying, “You should exercise because you should exercise.”

It shares much with the false authority fallacy because we accept these statements based solely on the fact that someone else claims it to be so. Often, we feel we can trust another person so much that we often accept his claims without testing the logic.This is called blind trust, and it is very dangerous. We might as well just talk in circles.

ksuweb.kennesaw.edu...

Just because we start with the premise that the bible, or any other text is an authority, doesn't make it so. No matter how many times, how many ways, or how emphatic we are about it.

Because the premise cannot also be proof of the conclusion.

reply to post by Iason321


Why don't you stop oppressing other members?

This is the problem we find with theists on here (mainly Judaics).

You talk about us not seeing the truth...we provide evidence, and you refute with not evidence, but quotes from a highly dubious book that can't even be proven to be entirely accurate. Only the places and the people existed...

The actual dialogue itself (which you keep quoting) is unproven.

Stop oppressing us. You are becoming the ignorance we're trying to deny.

reply to post by Klassified


I sincerely hope you didn't just call us heathens...

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Klassified

 

I sincerely hope you didn't just call us heathens...

To fundamentalist christians, that's what we are. Godless heathens.

Originally posted by Klassified
To fundamentalist christians, that's what we are. Godless heathens.

I have a cousin who is Catholic. He had twin babies that were born many months early and were lucky to have lived. His very Catholic mother wanted to bring a priest in a have them baptized while in the hospital. The hospital staff would not allow it because the babies were in special care to keep them alive. My cousin's mother called the babies "heathens" because of this. It really hurt my cousin. I felt so sorry for him.

reply to post by Hydroman


That's why I'm not Catholic. I grew up to stories of my mother (lesbian) facing her Catholic principal.

He looked her in the eye, the eye of a 16 year old, and said, "You're going to hell."

My mother, much to my unabashed glee as she told the story, said to him, "You can be there to open the gates."

I am very proud of my mom for that moment. No one bad mouths an Irish lass.

reply to post by Hydroman

Double post, with a side order of "nothing to see here".

reply to post by Starchild23


My mother got the same treatment from the local bishop when she left the convent.
I hear the other Nuns corrected him right fast.

reply to post by Hydroman

Wow! That's hardcore for a Catholic. They're usually a little easier going than that.

reply to post by Klassified


Not the old-fashioned ones...

Originally posted by Klassified
Wow! That's hardcore for a Catholic. They're usually a little easier going than that.

Yeah, it was bad. They are not on good terms right now. As a matter of fact, I'm the only one in the family that he talks to.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


The video is very true. Taking the name of Jesus assumes that the name means his character and person in the trinity. One God, yet the Son is the image of the first born.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

We also know that God the Father is higher than Christ, being the Most High. There is a difference, yet we know that The Son and the Father are one.

"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I,'" (John 14:28).

Jesus definitely taught a hierarchy. There is the term Lord, Elohim and the reference to the Most High.

Philippians 2:5–8

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made ...

Jesus became fully man.

Hebrews 2:9

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

He was then resurrected and placed at the right hand of God. We still have the image of God being greater than Jesus, yet they are one.

Colossians 2:9

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Fully man and fully God.

Galatians 4:4–5

4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

What Christ is we will be.

Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Taking on the name of the Lord apart from the character is taking the name in vain. The character is where it is at with God. He cares more about our hearts than anything. We realize this by the life of Christ.

Now I get back to the Masons. The builders rejected the chief cornerstone. We also notice this among many other groups who will not acknowledge Jesus as fully God. The name is the character we must take and the faith in what God has done for us in and through the Son.

Acts 4

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Ephesians 1

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


God was greater than Jesus, but they were one.

What I take from this is that we all come from Source, and so Source is greater than any of us...and yet we are made from Source's essence... i.e. energy. Thus, we are one with Source as well.

reply to post by Iason321

Any single entity claiming to have the "actual" interpretation of the Bible is wrong,

Great! That's what I've been saying all along! Now we can finally agree on -

You have to come to your own conclusions, and if you've truly studied the Bible, you can come to no other conclusion than the ones presented in this video.

If you've come to other conclusions, you've failed Gods test.

...what? But didn't you just say that any one actual interpretation is wrong? And now you're saying that the guy in this video has it absolutely right...

You know what, I give up. :bnghd:

reply to post by Klassified


And its not my job to prove to atheists that the bible is authentic or trustworthy. That is down to there own investigation and study. All I can do is spread the truth and share the gospel with those willing to listen. What I find though is that its not a case of they don't find the bible trustworthy... but rather they are to proud and rebellious to accept it. Of course that is their choice and I'm not going to try and change that. We will all have to give an account when we die, and there will not be any valid excuses as to why they decided to reject it. They know this and it makes them uncomfortable, hence the reason they feel so desperate to spam my topic with poor arguments and nonsensical statements.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Because when asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, I proudly stood and answered for all to hear...

"A sheep. When I grow up, I'm gonna be a sheep at a maa-aaa-nastery."

True story.

Well, my Yeshua is none of the above. He is the KING, far more than any lord and far more than any normal king but the King of Kings. He makes the Caesars look like the lowliest piss ant and our modern day leaders are as fools before him. Thats who my Yeshua is.

reply to post by Starchild23


I would rather be a sheep then a goat.

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."

John 10:15 - "As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."


Parable of the sheep and the goats:

Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

God was greater than Jesus, but they were one.

What I take from this is that we all come from Source, and so Source is greater than any of us...and yet we are made from Source's essence... i.e. energy. Thus, we are one with Source as well.

You need to remember what God called Himself. He is the Great I AM. This is consciousness. Spirit and consciousness are one in the same form what I can see.

Holy Spirit is what we gain from experience. The kingdom of God is the universe and what is beyond. He has that experience.