Ex-CIA Officer Who Destroyed Waterboarding Videos: Torturers "Disgusted" at Being Labeled "Tortur

I guess it is true that words are relative. To someone whom college exams are a high stress event or maybe hasn’t left the couch in a while a good many things on the enhanced technique list might be torture. To someone who has never been challenged for his life an open handed slap/face grab may be torture – not to me.

To me having been in combat situations countless times, being apprehended by the Egyptian Border Patrol and detained for 96 hours or so, and training at some of the most competitive schools; being slapped, bruised, hungry and kept awake, made to experience muscle failure to face things that made me uncomfortable are fairly common. Not torture.

Thing to remember is that these hard core AQ operators on the side of our enemy are just as trained and a hell of a lot more fanatic. What may break a civilian or average foot soldier - he will laugh it off as weak.

You all realize how few people were actually ever subjected to these measures and the level of approval required to get it authorized? Less than I have fingers and toes - out of how many captures in 10 years or so you think that is? Maybe less than 1-2 percent - if that.

I suggest to you who feel that experiencing enhanced techniques in training is not the same - I suggest you sign up for tour and go to SERE school and we can then compare experiences. It's real enough - I assure you. Until then I’ll just consider your opinion on interrogation and torture for what it’s worth to me – zero.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Here's a question for all the bleeding hearts who feel pity for the poor terrorists getting water-boarded. If for example MI6 had credible information that islamic nut-jobs were preparing to have suicide bombers kill innocent civilians at the London Olympics during the opening ceremonies, would you use water-boarding to try and extract information form a suspect who was found with an explosive "vest" in his house? Would you want to save lives, or would you want the hatred to increase even more after such an attack?

I'd like to field this one, if I may. I don't think waterboarding would be necessary here. I think London has more security cameras than people. Some good police work should be able to locate this guy's known associates. Alert the media and ask people who know this guy to come forward if they have any information about his friends and associates. Also, you have his explosive vest, so you know a lot about what to look for at the the Olympics, types of explosives, triggers, etc. I think some good police work and the public's help would virtually neutralize the threat.

Now, if I may ask you one. Suppose you decide to waterboard this guy. Under this enhanced interrogation, he points the finger at the Israeli Mossad and several people in the US Government with dual citizenship. Would you advocate arresting those individuals for interrogation and attacking Israel?

Here's a question for you then. Lets say one of Seal Team 6 who supposedly killed Osama got captured during the raid. Let's say Al Qaeda captured him. Is it fine for them to torture him to get more info about the Seal Team? Or do you view it differently now its the enemy doing it to one of yours?

If the only thing those none human beasts did was water-board highly trained Navy Seals I would be ALL for it, especially considering what the disgusting vermin have done to hostages in the past.

Or how about if it was white US citizens from otherwise upstanding families and neighbourhoods, who were publicly respected that planned to bomb the olympics? Is torture ok for them or only for towelheads?

Congratulations, your playing of the race card proves how brainwashed by the MSM you truly are, good job. I suppose you also jumped on the left wing MSM "let's hang Mr. Zimmerman bandwagon" before all the facts are in as well.

The fact is, people on both sides are brainwashed into believing they have to kill the other. You are a victim of that as much as they are, not to mention there is at LEAST as much blood on the hands of our armies as theirs.

No, unlike yourself and many other sheep who have been manipulated into thinking there is no threat I KNOW who my enemy is and I will vote accordingly to keep the nut-jobs out of my country; especially after seeing what radical islam has done to parts of Europe.

Arguments about beheading and such go straight out the window when you look at the behaviour of coalition forces in Afghanistan of late.

Good god, I wish I had seen this part of your post before I even responded to you as I see you are one of *THOSE* types. Toodles.

Now, if I may ask you one. Suppose you decide to waterboard this guy. Under this enhanced interrogation, he points the finger at the Israeli Mossad and several people in the US Government with dual citizenship. Would you advocate arresting those individuals for interrogation and attacking Israel?

I'm not into far out conspiracy theories that have no basis or grounds, so it's kind of a hard question when I have no historical fact to base it on. I know for a fact that 99.999% of all terror attacks in this world are perpetrated by islamic nut-jobs, but when was the last time an Israeli attacked a U.S. citizen? Now, I know there's quite a few kids on this message board who believe that the Jews are evil Zionists hell bent on the destruction of the world and eating newborn babies on the Sabbath while praying to the new world order; but let's talk facts, not silly little fantasies.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko

Now, if I may ask you one. Suppose you decide to waterboard this guy. Under this enhanced interrogation, he points the finger at the Israeli Mossad and several people in the US Government with dual citizenship. Would you advocate arresting those individuals for interrogation and attacking Israel?

I'm not into far out conspiracy theories that have no basis or grounds, so it's kind of a hard question when I have no historical fact to base it on. I know for a fact that 99.999% of all terror attacks in this world are perpetrated by islamic nut-jobs, but when was the last time an Israeli attacked a U.S. citizen? Now, I know there's quite a few kids on this message board who believe that the Jews are evil Zionists hell bent on the destruction of the world and eating newborn babies on the Sabbath while praying to the new world order; but let's talk facts, not silly little fantasies.

edit on 1-5-2012 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)

Actually, Israel is the only national government that I'm aware of that has been proven to have commited acts of terrorism against US citizens, but that's not really the point of the question. If you like, you can substitute Switzerland, Mexico, or the Vatican for Israel in the original question and answer it that way.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Well then absolutely. If it was a bunch of nutcase chocolate eating sheep shagging clock-makers from Switzerland that had committed over 30,000 terror attacks since 911 I'd say water-board the hell out of them. But it's not, it's islamic terrorists conspiring to kill innocent civilians on a daily basis. Your straw-man argument has done nothing to further your point, whatever that is.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


The point is, if you decide to waterboard this guy, and he gives you an answer you don't like, you'll just keep waterboarding him until he gives you an answer you'll accept, right? Whether it's the truth or not? In your case, it doesn't seem to be about getting information. It's all about punishing those sub-human Islamic nut-jobs.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Ah ah ah, now you're attempting to to take a swift detour from the original topic by trying to spin it, good try, but no cigar for you, this isn't MSNBC The original topic was should we water-board terrorists to find out if they know about other terror plots. I answered your question and you didn't like the answer because it leaves you no room to wiggle.

Btw, I edited my previous post so you can understand better what I am getting at.

To add, I'm fairly certain that the interrogators are trained in the method to the point that they can tell fairly easily when the person doing the interrogating is being fed a pack of lies just so the water-boarding stops. I would imagine they are quite highly trained in what they do and wouldn't do it at ALL if it didn't net good results. This kind of stuff has been taking place since the cold war, it's a cold hard fact of intelligence gathering as far as I'm concerned, but if it saves lives in the long run so be it.

Originally posted by Golf66

This is ridiculous; what we do in the US is not torture.

Enhanced interrogation which is more like intense physical and mental manipulation that may produce momentary panic or mental fatigue did without a doubt produce documented and good usable/ actionable intelligence.

I'm amazed that we have citizens like you walking free in this country. But I'm not surprised because darn near everything has been upside down for quite a spell. Up is new down, black is new white, wrong is the new right. Are you aware sir that we executed Japanese soldiers post-WW2 for water boarding which was classified as torture?

If you or our forces had actually gotten good, actionable intel, why is Bush the junior still walking around free? What about the intel provided by Sibel Edmonds that Grossman (#3 at the State Department) ordered 9/11 detainees released before they "spilled the beans". What about the intel provided by numerous academics that very advanced pyrotechnic chemicals were present at the 9/11 crime site? What about the intel provided by vetted experts that said WTC 7 was brought down by explosives? What about the intel in the pentagon surveillance video of the 9/11 attack that the pentagon refuses to release? What about Rumsfield's intel on 9/10/2001 that the pentagon was missing 2.3 trillion? There's plenty more intel. Much more.

You sir, are so deep in the propaganda that you can't see the forest for the trees. This is not a new game. Fedgov has been at this criminal enterprise since the end of WW2 and they are very skilled. It's a real shame that your participation is furthering their agenda.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by VictorVonDoom

 

Ah ah ah, now you're attempting to to take a swift detour from the original topic by trying to spin it, good try, but no cigar for you, this isn't MSNBC

The original topic was should we water-board terrorists to find out if they know about other terror plots. I answered your question and you didn't like the answer because it leaves you no room to wiggle.

Btw, I edited my previous post so you can understand better what I am getting at.

edit on 1-5-2012 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)

I thought I was trying to spin it back in to the topic. Should we waterboard terrorist SUSPECTS to find out if they know about other terror plots. Remember, the original London Olympic bomber question was yours. I answered it by saying that in the scenario you described that waterboarding would not be my first impulse, investigation would.

You didn't really answer my question at first because you seemed to take offense that the suspect might say that Israel was involved. No problem, I understand. And I don't want to sound like I'm putting words in your mouth, but I believe if YOU had been conducting that interrogation, and the suspect said Israel was involved, I get the impression that you would have dismissed it out of hand, without investigation, even if it were the truth. You would have continued to interrogate the suspect until he told you something you would believe, like Islamic radicals were behind the plot.

In your scenario, it's possible that the bomb plot could be carried out by old IRA members, or some Greeks who are POed about austerity measures, or even some Brits who are upset about all the Middle Eastern people coming into their country and they see Islamic radicals as a convenient scapegoat. But when the suspect saw your reaction to the suggestion that Israel might be involved, he would know exactly who to blame to make the interrogation stop.

So, I don't think that torture is a very effective interrogation technique. Especially when the interrogator has such a blind hatred for the person they are torturing. You can't really torture someone without having at least a little hatred for them, and hatred will blind people to the truth. Even when that truth is handed to them on a silver platter.

Originally posted by jcarpenter
I'm amazed that we have citizens like you walking free in this country.

Don't sweat me, there are many who are a lot worse I assure you.

Originally posted by jcarpenter Are you aware sir that we executed Japanese soldiers post-WW2 for water boarding which was classified as torture?

O"really, please provide for me the links for this.... I want to see the evidence we executed someone who's "war crime" was slapping some prisoners and water boarding them. I doubt there are many Japanese intelligence soldiers who stopped at those methods. They were certainly executed for other reasons.

Originally posted by jcarpenterYou sir, are so deep in the propaganda that you can't see the forest for the trees. This is not a new game.

You presuppose I don't know what role I have played. I am well aware of what I have done. I did it because it was right.

Originally posted by jcarpenter It's a real shame that your participation is furthering their agenda.

Everybody's got to eat. Oh and by the way thanks for the monthly checks if you are a US taxpayer. I appreciate it.

Originally posted by Golf66

Don't sweat me, there are many who are a lot worse I assure you.

It's the little monsters that keep the big monsters in power.

Originally posted by Golf66
O"really, please provide for me the links for this.... I want to see the evidence we executed someone who's "war crime" was slapping some prisoners and water boarding them. I doubt there are many Japanese intelligence soldiers who stopped at those methods. They were certainly executed for other reasons.

Startpage is your friend. Here's a link that took seconds to find:

crooksandliars.com...

Originally posted by Golf66
You presuppose I don't know what role I have played. I am well aware of what I have done. I did it because it was right.

At minimum, you're are lending verbal support to the crimes and warcrimes of the mafia running our country. I would suggest education might help you to realize the depth of the psychopaths you are serving.

Water boarding is a "advanced interrogation technique" like pulling fingernails is a really intense manicure.
It's torture. Period.

Originally posted by jcarpenter

Startpage is your friend. Here's a link that took seconds to find:

crooksandliars.com...

An interview on CNN is hardly the evidince. I want to see the trial transcripts and proof that there is a direct correlation between the practice of waterboarding and thier death sentence as a stand alone cause.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by jcarpenter

Startpage is your friend. Here's a link that took seconds to find:

crooksandliars.com...

An interview on CNN is hardly the evidence. I want to see the trial transcripts and proof that there is a direct correlation between the practice of waterboarding and their death sentence as a stand alone cause.

The ball is in your court. Startpage is your friend. That is -- unless you're ready to pony up with the checkbook.

Of course we don't torture,just like we don't negotiate with terrorists.We are just terribly misunderstood and the rest of the world better start getting back in line or we may have to liberate the rest of those less than cooperative countries from the tyrants.Look at Libya,Iraq,and Egypt and how good they have it now that we and the allies are there! *sarcasm off* We have known for years that the world is controlled by moral monsters who will do and say anything to maintain power over the planet.This little peon of a CIA officer is just a small cog in the machine.

Originally posted by jcarpenter

Startpage is your friend. Here's a link that took seconds to find:

crooksandliars.com...

An interview on CNN is hardly the evidence. I want to see the trial transcripts and proof that there is a direct correlation between the practice of waterboarding and their death sentence as a stand alone cause.

Excellent - make a claim; fail to back it up, then demand I look up the proof for myself. No thanks - I will belive it when presented and not until. I will not search for information to validate or refute your claims. The burden of proof is always with the claimant. Until then I remain unconvinced.

Getting back to the topic... has anyone watched the CBS interview?

In this video CBS interviewer Leslie Stahl describes the CIA correspondence with Defense as "Orwellian stuff". And the other commentators/pundits in this video expanded with the metaphor of '1984'.

www.cbsnews.com...

I vehemently agree. This is Orwellian Stuff

Originally posted by Golf66
I guess it is true that words are relative. To someone whom college exams are a high stress event or maybe hasn’t left the couch in a while a good many things on the enhanced technique list might be torture. To someone who has never been challenged for his life an open handed slap/face grab may be torture – not to me.

Well there's nothing like making stuff up about your opponent to try and look like you are right. Grats on being so tough though.

No, I've never been tortured. I have experienced enough pain and have enough empathy to know I don't enjoy it and I don't enjoy inflicting it on others. Only sadists enjoy inflicting pain on other people.