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More Govt. Overreach! Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores

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posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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It looks line the founders have finally stopped rolling in their graves.... They left and repatriated in England ... Guess king George wasn't that bad at all.


On a serious note ... WTF


Are the majority of Americans brain dead couch potatoes?

It would appear so. What will it take for we the people to take a stand?

As for the comment about kids working for their parents on their own farms .... last time I check Government thinks they own our kids.


Molon labe'




posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


That reminds me of the time when my son was three years old and "lifted" a candy bar from a display at child height at the checkout counter. I didn't see him do it and didn't find out till we were half way home. He whips out this candy bar that I knew I hadn't purchased. I asked him where he got it and he said "Mama, it was right there in front of me so I took one!"
I turned that car around, went back to the store, made him pay for it and apologize (the clerk looked at me like I was crazy), and then made him walk over to the trash can and throw it away!
Lesson learned that he never forgot!

BTW my son worked around the farm since he was big enough to carry an egg basket! He could work the tire machine at eight, and by the time he was ten could change a tire more efficiently than most men. He learned to repair the equipment just as young. He had his own farm car at 5. My husband is actually the one who wrecked it, not my son : ). The life wasn't easy, but it wasn't hard either and it made us CLOSE! Taught us to stick together through anything! It taught my son values that at 32 he still treasures.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Why do you have to make this a left/right thing..??

this isn't a 'crazy left wing agenda' nor is it some 'right wing conspiracy'.

I'll tell you exactly what it is.... big business winning over little business. The concerns of large super farms being held in higher regard than a self sufficient family which does not need the large business to stay above water.

Children have always been free labor on farms, and rightfully so (incidentally its also one reason why third world parents have many children). For thousands of years, children born on farms, worked on farms. Did anyone complain? No - well probably some of the lazy kids - but on the whole, there was never any big outcry by farm kids. Suddenly, its a problem today after all these years?


Now, I did not grow up on a farm, however I had chores and responsibilities. My family could have hired a maid to do these things, but instead I had to do them.... So should some "Maid Lobby" in Washington fight to make house chores illegal for children just so Maids can earn more money?? That would be insane - which is exactly what these new farm regulations are.... insane, but helps the super farm business and their lobby.

So first, the super farms mess with family farmers over the cross pollination of seeds and such. Then a big push toward immigration overhaul (eliminate the super cheap work force used by smaller farms). Now, they are trying eliminate a Farmer's ability to raise a successor to the farm.

Makes me want to renounce my US citizenship because we no longer live in the land of the free and home of the brave. We are a bunch of enslaved cowards.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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As to children working, farm or elsewhere, my idea is that kids these days have too much time on their hands.
There should be after school work programs for all kids grades K-12.

In the old days most kids worked on farms. That is part of what made people self-responsible and made this country strong.
My dad and his brother were sent to work on a farm (not family) when they were 12 years old. They worked for room and board and a few dollars. When I was about 16 we went to visit the farm and the people he worked for.
Evidently he had pleasant memories of the whole experience.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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Again, this new rule was Pushed last summer and is now being affirmed. Welcome to the U.N. Agenda 21
That is why it is SO important for each one of us to speak out and stay on our GOV. Reps 2 or 3 times a week to stop the madness. Go to your city council meetings and speak out about this agenda that will end up making everything you know now as freedom….. Disappear---- It is Death by a thousand cuts. Check the link below for the info documentation. then do a search on Agenda 21. **Shocking**

Source link Agenda 21


edit on 4/26/2012 by StayAlert1 because: Link edit correction



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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So what does Obama want these children to do? Grow up with zero work ethics and respect? Just sit around, doing nothing, listening to ipods and playing video games all day long?

I'm really sick of this crap. Children should do some chores, and should learn how to work for what they have. It's not slave labor to have you child clean the chicken coop or feed the horses. Give me a break.

As it is, many teens today can barely spell or form a coherent sentence, and do not want to work. And now they want farm families shut down and children made to become uninspired, undisciplined, and ignorant slaves of the govt.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
What a better way to program your children to make them believe they are entitled to things without having to actually work for it.

I worked on a farm as a young man for a couple years. It is hard, honest work and I would not trade that experience for anything in this world.

What I am most curious about however is just how does the Government plan to enforce this? That, in my opinion is the most important question. Just how exactly do you intend to enforce this? Without total surveillance of a farm, how exactly do you know if a kid is hauling some hay bails around? Or picking up eggs? Or feeding the livestock?


Amen to all this. When I grew up I lived with my grandparents for the most part. I helped out every single day with chores. I grew up to respect adults, work for what I have, and respect the work that I do. There is a process of character building and self respect when children are given some responsibility. What is going to be next here? Obama tells every parent in America that children cannot do household chores?



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by akalepos
the method used to destroy a culture or a society or a nation is to destroy it's agricultural base.

Just ask the plains peoples.

It feels like war against the American people.

These bastards must be destroyed.

It is what I think.
It is what I feel.
This is not a position to back down from.

This isn't Government. These are enemies of the Republic.


Everything you say here. Truth. In addition to this, most farm families are close knit and live differently. Most have some values intact, and have a different view. Maybe they are more old fashioned. They are people of the land who know how to work it and live off of it. Less controlled in a sense, and more independent in their spirit and their knowledge of how to grow something.

You start breaking down these farms and these families..... you leave a farm to fall apart, a home that is eventually abandoned, and a broken family forced into the urban jungle, where people are more easily accounted for and controlled.

I hate Monsanto.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Did anyone bother to go to the DOL website and READ?

The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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The OP's source article is typical "Obama Administration" fear mongering and is rife with lies.

Here are some more facts from the DOL website.


Wage and Hour Division (WHD) Five Facts about the Proposed Child Labor in Agriculture Rule

Fact # 1: The proposed Child Labor in Agriculture rule will not prohibit all people under the age of 18 from working on a farm. The proposed rule would not change any of the Fair Labor Standards Act's minimum age standards for agricultural employment. Under the FLSA, the legal age to be employed on a farm without restrictions is 16. The FLSA also allows children between the ages of 12 and 15 years, under certain conditions, to be employed outside of school hours to perform nonhazardous jobs on farms. Children under the age of 12 may be employed with parental permission on very small farms to perform nonhazardous jobs outside of school hours. Young people can be employed to perform many jobs on the farm – and this would be true even if the proposed rule were adopted as written. The proposed rule would, however, prohibit the employment of workers under the age of 18 in nonagricultural occupations in the farm-product raw materials wholesale trade industries. Prohibited establishments would include country grain elevators, grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, feed yards, stockyard, livestock exchanges, and livestock auctions not on a farm or used solely by a single farmer. What these locations have in common is that many workers, including children, have suffered occupational deaths or serious injuries working in these facilities over the last few years.

Fact # 2: The proposed rule would not eliminate the parental exemption for owners/operators of a family farm. The parental exemption for the owner or operator of a farm is statutory and cannot be eliminated through the regulatory process. A child of any age may perform any job, even hazardous work, at any age at any time on a farm owned by his or her parent. A child of any age whose parent operates a farm may also perform any task, even hazardous jobs, on that farm but only outside of school hours. So for children working on farms that are registered as LLCs, but operated solely by their parents, the parental exemption would still apply.

Fact # 3: This proposed regulation will not eliminate 4-H and FFA programs. The Department of Labor fully supports the important contributions both 4-H and the FFA make toward developing our children. The proposed rule would in no way prohibit a child from raising or caring for an animal in a non-employment situation — even if the animal were housed on a working farm — as long as he or she is not hired or “employed” to work with the animal. In such a situation, the child is not acting as an “employee” and is not governed by the child labor regulations. And there is nothing in the proposed rule that would prevent a child from being employed to work with animals other than in those specific situations identified in the proposal as particularly hazardous.

Fact # 4: Under the proposed rule, children will still be able to help neighbors in need of help. In order for the child labor provisions of the FLSA to apply, there must first be an employer/employee relationship. The lone act of helping a neighbor round up loose cattle who have broken out of their fencing, for example, generally would not establish an employer/employee relationship.

Fact # 5: Children will still be able to take animals to the county fair or to market. A child who raises and cares for his or her animal -- for example, as part of a 4-H project -- is not being employed by anyone, and thus is outside the coverage of the FLSA. Even if the child needs to rent space from a farm, the animal is not part of the farm’s business and with regard to the care of the animal no employer/employee relationship exists, so the child labor provisions would not apply. Likewise, there would be no problem with taking the animal to the county fair or to market, since the child is doing this on his/her own behalf – not on behalf of an employer. The proposed prohibitions would apply only if the child was an employee of the exchange or auction.


The regulations and changes to them pertain to employee/employer relationships and therefore do not apply to kids working on their family farms.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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The biggest problem is these asshats think they're doing good by protecting the children. They see (more like purposefully create) a problem and of course will try to solve it by using the age old battle cry of "won't somebody protect the children". Using children as a rallying cry is extremely popular because children are a hard thing to argue against, because any argument against protecting children, regardless if it violates civil rights and liberties, means that the person arguing against it is an ogre who wants to harm children. That sort of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's very hard to convince these kinds of people that they're wrong and will actually be hurting people in the end, they have an emotional interest in this.

This is also a war against parents and parental rights as well, in case if anybody noticed.

But I feel that this is being done on behalf of the corporation that rule this country. It will be the corporations that will eventually snatch up the lands that fail.

The saddest thing about all of this is the more you "protect" the children the more you harm them. You are not teaching them any kind of responsibility or any character but will only teach them that the world owes them a living, not the other way around. All you are doing is putting them into a prison and turning them into bland emotionless robots. Which is the ultimate goal of any government is to turn us all into slaves.

I also suspect that this is also partisan beliefs in play too, because liberals absolutely hate farmers as they call them all hillbilly rednecks. Take the children away from your most hated enemy and teach them to be liberal and you'll only strengthen your voter base even more and wipe out those "racist conservative bastards".



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

This is also a war against parents and parental rights as well, in case if anybody noticed.


How are these revised regulations a war against parents?



Originally posted by EvilSadamCloneI also suspect that this is also partisan beliefs in play too, because liberals absolutely hate farmers as they call them all hillbilly rednecks. Take the children away from your most hated enemy and teach them to be liberal and you'll only strengthen your voter base even more and wipe out those "racist conservative bastards".
lmao How many farmers do you know? I know quite a few and some of the are liberals and some conservatives. So are you suggesting the liberal farmers hate themselves? lol Any source material to backup the notion that liberals call farmers hillbilly rednecks any more than conservatives do?

Didn't think so...



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by jibeho
 

I agree that this smells of monkey business. To overcontrol things.

However, I am against child labor. I'm sure some parents do exploit the loopholes... However, how do you enforce something like that? How do you make sure that children aren't used that way?

By "child labor" I mean working a comparable number of hours as normal workers or working heavy machinery. I really don't think children belong on those things. They're too young for that, IMHO.

But you're right to worry. This could easily go much too far like so many other things.
edit on 26-4-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by jibeho
 


The bureauRats never sleep. To bad most Americans have no clue that the Federal government has no jurisdiction in the states.... Sad to see what Americans will put up with



This is why they're going after the small farmer. As hard working and necessary as these farmers are, they are not well known for their legal or business acumen. It is arguable that Baum's Wizard of Oz is a parable of America, with Dorothy representing "everyman", the Scarecrow representing the American farmer, the Tin Man representing Eastern industrial labor, and the Cowardly lion representing the American politician. The Scarecrow, of course, would be happy if he "only had a brain".

This is not such a bold move by Obama - even if he put the rrrrrrrrrrr in courage - to go after the hapless farmer, The Obama administration is counting on that farmer not knowing that all they have to do is challenge jurisdiction and once successfully challenged use the subsequent documentation to sue for a redress of grievances.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
This sounds like a typical ultra fanatical left wing agenda.



Wrong actually.

There are two axis of politics, left vs right, and authority vs liberty.

You can have authoritarianism within left and right leaning groups.
Or you can have libertarianism within left or right groups.

This isn't a left wing agenda, it's an authoritarian agenda.
Both the left and right wings support the authoritarian agenda.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Oh, this is definitely Government insanity.

I grew up on a farm, and did farm chores from a very, very young age. It gave me a good grounding and strong focus later in life.

This has been going on on family farms for thousands of years, and Obama Govt thinks that they should regulate it?

They keep doing things that will continue to push up the price of food.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by NoAngel2u

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

This is also a war against parents and parental rights as well, in case if anybody noticed.


How are these revised regulations a war against parents?



Originally posted by EvilSadamCloneI also suspect that this is also partisan beliefs in play too, because liberals absolutely hate farmers as they call them all hillbilly rednecks. Take the children away from your most hated enemy and teach them to be liberal and you'll only strengthen your voter base even more and wipe out those "racist conservative bastards".
lmao How many farmers do you know? I know quite a few and some of the are liberals and some conservatives. So are you suggesting the liberal farmers hate themselves? lol Any source material to backup the notion that liberals call farmers hillbilly rednecks any more than conservatives do?

Didn't think so...


Just another example of people mixing up the two axis of politics.

Right vs Left does not equal Authoritarian vs Libertarian.
Either can be either.

That is how the media brainwashes people, they make them think everything is Right vs Left, when in reality that's not true at all. What matters is authority vs liberty, but instead it is lost in the nonsense of pointless left vs right debates.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Just another example of people mixing up the two axis of politics.

Right vs Left does not equal Authoritarian vs Libertarian.
Either can be either.

That is how the media brainwashes people, they make them think everything is Right vs Left, when in reality that's not true at all. What matters is authority vs liberty, but instead it is lost in the nonsense of pointless left vs right debates.


Also, another example of people NOT educating themselves and following up with sources. I posted just above on this same page the fact that these regulations will not change a thing for family farms and then babybunnies posts her lament over the governments insanity for regulating family farms.

Starting with the op's source which misrepresents the facts and tosses out some complete lies and continuing with all the outraged commentary that followed, I'm just stumped that everyone would just take that information as is and run with it.

wtf people, can't you read? lol
edit on 4/26/1212 by NoAngel2u because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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The article/thread title itself is A LIE. A total fabrication! The labor dept rules will NOT BAN children from performing farm chores.

The first paragraph of the article

A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves.
A total fabrication! This WILL NOT prevent children from doing farm chores.

The second paragraph in the article

The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land.
A total fabrication!

The proposed rule would not eliminate the parental exemption for owners/operators of a family farm. The parental exemption for the owner or operator of a farm is statutory and cannot be eliminated through the regulatory process. A child of any age may perform any job, even hazardous work, at any age at any time on a farm owned by his or her parent. A child of any age whose parent operates a farm may also perform any task, even hazardous jobs, on that farm but only outside of school hours. So for children working on farms that are registered as LLCs, but operated solely by their parents, the parental exemption would still apply. Source


Not to mention the article DOES NOT mention the parental exemption ONCE! So all this moaning, groaning, complaining, gnashing of teeth and pulling hair has been in response to lies.

Gonna put my earplugs in. lmao


edit on 4/26/1212 by NoAngel2u because: added sources



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by NoAngel2u
Did anyone bother to go to the DOL website and READ?

The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent.




Yeah, it would be nice if the member posting this could actually read it. Reading means understanding all the words. Take for example: exemption:


1. To free from an obligation, a duty, or a liability to which others are subject: exempting the disabled from military service.


Or, why don't we clearly define the word: allow:


1. To let do or happen; permit:


So, what we have here is a magnanimous government "exempting" parents and children from a dubious code that "allows" parents to use their children as help on the farm. That's just giving you the benefit of the doubt, here. Otherwise I would be inclined to say;

WTF person, can't you read?




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