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Why is the Smithsonian preventing any research into Giants?

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by FORMe2p00p0n
.and once the Sumerian texts are confirmed, it would confirm that we were created as a slave race to mine gold.... oh wait we still mine gold and stock pile in just a few places around the world.

the all powerful spiritual "god" of Moses does not make sense, a flesh and blood "being" with technology predating our current tech by 100,000 years does..

*looks at watch* - wonder when they are going to pick the shipment up



Haha. Yea. I would think soon, seeing all the Cash for Gold ads. Mix that with the price of Gold being high, and people are shifting the Gold into fewer hands. I wonder if there is any validity to the theory??

Timing is everything...

I recently went to a Cherokee site, well, a Cherokee named place, that the Cherokee didn't go near. There is this hidden cave on the side of a mountain between Boone, and Asheville, NC. It's supposed to be judicolo's (sp?) house. He was this Giant that could rip a bear right off the ground and throw it effortlessly with his strong arms.
He was supposed to be one of the last giants the Cherokee had to deal with. They said that these Giants were beasts, and not to be trusted ever. They had decided to leave this particular giant be, and he apparently died from old age years ago...

I believe in Giants. Havn't listened to the show yet, I'm listening to the show from 4/23 right now..




posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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I'd like to know where the "cutoff point" is for the "impossibility" of Giants. I mean, are we talking 8 feet tall, 9 feet tall, 10 feet tall, 11 feet tall, 12 feet tall...?

I'd also like to interject that "Gods coming from the sky" might be a misinterpretation. Were I to find a primitive culture living on Earth and land there via Helicopter, I would to them be seen as coming from the sky...
Though it would be nice to be worshipped as a God. I've never been worshipped before, as a God or otherwise...



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by CaptainLJB
 


Really? Sweet. Can you post some links for the ones that are just starting out. A kind of "point us in the right direction" type thing. It would be much appreciated.
Peace.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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OH PLEASE PEOPLE. In that video those images of giant are fakes. These were from a competition , something about photo shop , even posted on ATS years and years ago. And now...these photoshopped images are being used as proof of Giants.....Come on people.

And as for proof of the bible. NO. Every single mythology from every corner of the world, from Sumarians to South Americans....had myths of Giants who were there rulers.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 


I heard that this is where the Cherokee said raising your hand up and saying "hi" came from because giants had 6 fingers? The Cherokee have really cool stories, most are probably true who knows?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Dextraphite
 


I can tell you exactly why quakademia is covering up the presence of giants in prehistory...because they are attempting to cover up the glorious history of the Cro-Magnon/Proto-Aryan empire, which before the end of the last Ice age circumvented the globe. The full implications of this information being broadcast to the world has already resulted in a world war and the development of Aryanism and Ariosophy. It is a fact that these giants were the direct ancestors of of modern western and northern European Caucasians, and that they were also responsible of every great megalithic cultural achievement of history from the Great Pyramids, to Gobekli Tepe, to ancient Sumeria, to the early megalithic culture of China, to the mound culture of the Mississippi, to the megalithic cultures of Mexico and Peru. But somehow despite the droves of evidence of Giant Caucasian mummies, a prevailing culture of Proto-Aryan sun worship and consistant account of "white skinned, bearded, god kings" in all of these regions, quakademia still wishes to attribute these cultures to the Mongoloids who moved in to occupy these regions millennia later through hundreds of generations of miscegeny with foreign migrants, which of course resulted in the fall of these once advanced "white" civilizations. Just because these people lived there in recent history and the present does not mean that they were the founders of these cultures.

These Proto-Aryans were known by many other names given them by the primitive peoples whom they conquered and taught civilization to. The Aryans were also known as a race of giants as they stood as much as twice as tall as the original indigenous peoples that they conquered. Many of the ancient Aryan mummies and skeletons found in modern times, such as the remains of Lovelock and elsewhere throughout North America, is proof that these Aryans were giants with an average male height of 7’5” to 8” and an average female height of 6’5” to 7”, though some reported skeletons may have been as tall as 12 feet! Most interestingly are the extremely large skulls found to coincide with these findings, some large enough to fit around the full-grown head of a man. Repeatedly, the “race of giants” is connected with the legend of a global flood or Deluge. What follows is an overview of giant lore from the many descendents of the original Aryans and the people they conquered during the first and second Aryan expansion:

Celtic:

The Tuatha de Danaan: This was a race of Celtic giants and the father gods who were believed to be the ancestors of the Irish Celts. They were said to dwell in underground kingdoms or inside hollow mountains. One of the chief deities was Lugus, a name that translates to “Shining One”, revealing a parallel connection to Sumer’s deified giant kings known as the Ari, Annunaki, or Annanagi who were also called the Shining Ones.

Cuculainn: He is known as the Irish Hercules, and is said to have come to Ireland in a special ship when his homeland was destroyed by a great flood. It is interesting that his name sounds very similar to the South American white god Kukulcan, a character described as a bearded, white man of “very tall stature”, with deep set blue eyes. He was also said to have arrived on a boat telling much the same story about his sunken homeland.

The Cimbri: These were giants living in Celtic Gaul. They had long manes of blond and red hair and a fierce, warlike demeanor, all of which lead them to be compared to lions. They were also known as the “Cimmerians”, which may be suggestive of a Sumerian connection. This legend led in modern times to the inspiration for the story of “Conan the Cimmerian”, the fierce warrior of the northern land of Hyperborea.

Albion: He was recorded to have been one of the Titan giants fathered by Poseidon. According to legend he came to England after the Flood and was for many years the island’s principle deity. In ancient times England was actually called “Albion”, after their Titan god/king. Many British place-names retain the words “Albion” or “Albany” to this very day.

King Arthur: There is some Arthurian lore which claims that he piloted an ark during the Deluge, and this legend also relates that he stood just over nine feet tall. Inspired by stories that Arthur was buried at Glastonbury, King Henry II dispatched a crew to excavate the area. They found a lead cross at a depth of nine feet inscribed with the words: “Here lies the body of King Arthur”. The dug further below the cross to a depth of sixteen feet and found a stone sarcophagus containing the bones of a man nine feet tall. History records that the bones at Glastonbury, which were supposed to have been those of Arthur, were respectfully re-interred.

(*to be continued...*)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Grecian:

The Tritons: This was a race of giant gods, spawned by the interbreeding of Poseidon with a mortal woman named Cleito. They were recorded to have been the royal family of Atlantis, and some are said to have escaped the flood that destroyed Atlantis.

The Titans: These were a Greek race of giants born to Ouranos and Gaia and were said to be a cruel race of rulers predating the gods of Olympus who were in fact the progeny of the Titan Chronos. It is undoubtedly a later retelling of the saga concerning the Atlantean race of giant Tritons.

Atlas: He was the King of Atlantis, and a Triton/giant. He was so large and so strong that he was often depicted holding the Earth upon his shoulders. To this day compendiums of world maps are called “Atlases”, thus honoring the name of the king of Atlantis in modern times.

Iberius: A Titan and the brother of Albion, he went to Spain after the Flood. And likewise, Spain was for centuries named Iberia in his honor. The Celtic Basque people of Northern Spain are undoubtedly the descendents of this migration.

The Cyclops’s: The Cyclops’s were said to have been one-eyed giants in Greek mythology. It was said that they built the city of Mycenae in Greece out of massive blocks weighing many tons each. This is why similar constructions found at Baalbek are referred to as having “Cyclopean” architecture.

The Cabiri: This was a race of giant blacksmith gods said to live in hollowed-out volcanoes. Their name sound very similar to the Cimbri of the Celts and may have been a wondering tribe of giant, warriors wielding superior weaponry made using a form of metallurgy unknown to the Greeks. They had tattoos on their foreheads of a large solar disc, leading many to speculate that the myth of the one-eyed Cyclops’s may have originated with them.

Semitic:

The Nephilim: These were the Sons of God who in Genesis interbred with humans, creating a race of giants. They were also known as “The Watchers” in The Book of Enoch. Much speculation has arisen in modern times as to their origins, yet the most likely scenario is that they were a hybrid race in ancient Sumer created by the interbreeding of the Aryan Invaders with the indigenous proto-Semitic peoples of this region.

The Cainites: This was a race of giants supposedly descended from Cain who lived in an underworld kingdom called “Arka.” The statement in Genesis that “in those days, and after that, there were giants on the earth” is in fact a mistranslation of the original Hebrew texts. The actual translation states that there were “giants in the earth.”

The Anakim: The word Anakim translates as “the descendants of Anak”, or Enoch, the son of Cain, and was another name for the Watchers. Though it was said that the flood had been sent to destroy them, there were still entire cities of Anakim in Canaan as late as the time of Moses. Spies sent by Moses to scout Anakim strongholds reported back that the Anakim were so large that the Hebrews seemed “like grasshoppers” in comparison. Jewish chronicler Josephus states that even in his own day it was not uncommon for people to dig up gigantic skeletal remains.

Amerindian:

Ooelen: Ahwahneechee folklore relates a legend of giants called Ooelen who came into the Yosemite Valley in ancient times. The legend says that the Ahwahneechees banded together after being terrorized by them for some time and finally ganged up on and killed the giants. In 1885 a group of miners led by G.F. Martindale were prospecting the California’s Yosemite Valley and found the remains of a woman nearly seven feet tall still holding a mummified child in a cave behind a wall of rock. The “Martindale Mummies” are currently the property of Ripley's Museum.

Ronnongwetowanca: David Cusic, a Tuscorora Amerindian by birth, wrote in 1825 that among the legends of His people there was a powerful but extinct tribe called Ronnongwetowanca who inhabited the Ohio River valley in ancient times. They were said to be red haired giants, and had a “considerable habitation”. He states that when the Great Spirit made the people, some of them became giants. They attacked when most unexpected and made themselves feared by terrorizing the red man for a great long time, then the tribes banded together to destroy them. With a final force of about 800 warriors, they successfully killed off the Ronnongwetowanca. It was said that there were no giants anywhere after this. According to Tuscorora legend this was supposed to have happened around 2,500 winters before Columbus arrived in America, or roughly 1,000 B.C.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Sitecah: The Paiute Indian legends describe a race of red-haired giants called Sitecahs. Like their red-haired counterparts, The Ronnongwetowanca of the Ohio River Valley, the Sitecahs were the enemies of many Indian tribes of the region, and according to the Paiutes, they were hostile and warlike. For many ages the Sitecah and the Paiutes were at war, and after a long struggle a coalition of tribes trapped the remaining Sitecah in Lovelock Cave. When they refused to come out to be slaughtered, the Indians piled brush before the cave mouth and set it on fire, killing off the Sitecah. In 1911, Guano miners discovered prehistoric artifacts at Nevada’s Lovelock Cave, (the same cave in which Paiute legend states the Sitecah were slaughtered) above the southeastern shore of Humboldt Sink. Archeologists believe the cave was occupied from approximately 1500 B.C. until a few hundred years before European settlers appeared in the region. Red-haired mummies and skeletal remains ranging from 6 and a half feet to 8 feet tall were discovered in the cave. Some skulls recovered from Lovelock Cave can still be seen in museums in Lovelock and Winnemucca, Nevada. In 1931, more large skeletons were found in the Humboldt lake bed, approximately 20 miles from Lovelock, Nevada. The first of these two skeletons found measured 8 1/2 feet tall and appeared to have been wrapped in a gum-covered fabric similar to the Egyptian manner. The second skeleton was almost 10 feet tall!


Mesoamerican:



Quetzlcoatl: Quetzlcoatl is the later Aztec version of earlier Incan and Mayan God Kings. This was the giant white god who appeared to native South Americans and founded their civilizations, according to their folktales. He too is depicted supporting the Earth on his shoulders, and he told the natives that the civilization from which he originated was destroyed by a flood which he escaped by building a ship, which was said to move without ores.

Votan: This is yet another tall white tutelary deity of South America. Once again we see the strange circumstance that his name sounds exactly like that of the Germanic god Wotan, (in the German tongue the letter “W” is typically pronounced like the English letter “V”) a deity worshipped by the Germanic Vikings as the father of the gods.

Kukulcan: Kukulcan had a human form as well as his feathered serpent form. Kukulcan would transform into a man standing about 6 feet tall, with long white hair, and white skin. Most interestingly he was depicted as having an extremely large elongated skull! We find writing from the Mayans (such as the Dresden Codex) and sculptures of what is thought to be Kukulcan and they depict a very European looking figure, totally different from how the Mayan's looked.

Viracocha: Viracocha is another “white, bearded” god of South America also depicted as having an elongated skull, and was credited for establishing the culture of the Incas. He was considered the god of the Sun and depicted with a crown of rays around his head, yet another connection with the shining ones, and the archetypal religion of the ancient Aryans.

Mesopotamian:



The Annunaki: In modern times the Annunaki have gotten allot of attention due to the so called Ancient Astronaut Theory, though this theory is entirely based of conjecture, circumstantial evidence, and outright falsehoods. The word Annunaki has been mistranslated by the Ancient Astronaut crowd as “those who from heaven to earth came” yet a closer examination of this reveals that the Sumerian word interpreted for heaven is actually “high place” or “Steppe” and likewise the word mistranslated to mean earth actually means “Plain”. So In actuality the Annunaki were “those from the steppes to the plains came”. Furthermore depictions of the Annunaki correspond with the description of Aryans as being extremely tall, having pale skin, blue eyes, light colored hair, long beards, and elongated skulls. Other cultural themes and archetypes match up with other Aryan cultures such as their association with Sun worship and advance technologies.

The Ari: This was a race of Sumerian “God” kings. “Ari” is a royal title meaning “the Shining Ones.” Numerous Sumerian seals depict them as men of gigantic stature with strange elongated or conical heads. They are often taller than members of their courts, even when depicted seated on thrones. In the numerous seals that show them standing, they tower far above those standing next to them.

The Ellu: This was a race of Mesopotamian kings said to be descendants of the gods. Yet again, “Ellu” is a royal court title which translates to “the Shining Ones.” It is thought that “Ellu” is where the word “Elohim” was derived, a term translated generally as “the Sons of God.” The Elohim are considered by some to be synonymous with the Nephilim of Genesis.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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East Asian:



Sun Emperors: New finds are forcing a re-examination of old Chinese books that describe the historical or legendary figures who established the line of Sun Emperors in China. In these books they are described as being of great height, with deep-set blue or green eyes, long noses, full beards, and red or blond hair. The discoveries in the 1980's of the 4,000-year-old ”Beauty of Loulan” and the 3,000-year-old body of the ”Charchan Man” confirm the legends about the first Chinese Emperors. Victor Mair a researcher of the Tarim Mummies was quoted as saying “From the evidence available, we have found that during the first 1,000 years after the Loulan Beauty, the only settlers in the Tarim Basin were Caucasoid. East Asian peoples only began showing up in the eastern portions of the Tarim Basin about 3,000 years ago.” The Tarim Mummies were identified through genetic testing as belonging to Haplogroup R1a, the Y chromosomal group of the Western Aryans.

Sky Gods: The Sky Gods of China were credited to have originated on earth but built ships and a “stairway” to the Heavens. The divine beings took the practice of mating with human beings and their life spans began to decline rapidly until they lived no longer than the people they still ruled by virtue of their great weapons and their willingness to utilize violence. War supposedly broke out between factions of the sky gods, until a powerful weapon was deployed and sounded with the noise of creation itself. The weapon destroyed forever the stairway to the heavens and brought down to earth the “Yellow Sovereign” or the “Sun Emperor” who introduced civilization, agriculture and the art of living together peacefully. Many Chinese temples depict the sky gods as being very pail skinned and having blue eyes.

Aryans: One of the earliest and most important religious texts of ancient India, the Rig-Veda is the oldest of the four collections of hymns and other sacred texts known as the Vedas. These works are considered the "sacred knowledge" of the Aryans, which later developed into the Hindu religion and became the most sacred Hindu texts. According to “established” academic dogma the Aryans invaded India around 1600 B.C.; though by their own account the Vedas make it clear that they were written much earlier. For example, in several Vedic hymns dedicated to the river Sarasvati, it is described to be actually flowing and existent. In reality the river Sarasvati does not exist anymore, according to archaeological research it dried up and disappeared in north Indian sands at the latest around 5000 BC, but probably earlier. Harappa, the oldest known ruins in the Indus Valley region is known to have been constructed and ruled over by the Aryans as Harappan artifacts showing the worship of Shiva (an Aryan God) and Swastikas. The artifacts from this sight were dated to about 5000 BC, yet the sight is probably much older as carbon dating techniques are flawed in the presence of radiation.

This is why they don,t want us to know...because not everyone in this world is White. and to attribute all of the greatest accomplishments of the ancient world to one race would cause an infiriority complex to arise within the other races...especially the jews...who are the ancient enemy of the Nephilim (AKA white people).



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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Start Here:
www.bibleufo.com...

Go here for the BIG STORY about the Smithsonian cover-up of Giants:
www.xpeditionsmagazine.com...

And Here:
www.onelight.com...

Interesting page Here:
www.burlingtonnews.net...

Lots of dead guys Here:
s15.zetaboards.com...

Even if we throw out a bunch of weak sources, such as myths and fairy tales, there's still a ton of data out there which supports the existence of Giants.

And just between you and me, it's always been a fantasy of mine to make love to a 12' woman...



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517

Originally posted by Baalam

Originally posted by Dextraphite
reply to post by Baalam
 


Watch the entire series and visit Steven Quayles website. It gives a lot more information, and it is not JUST about ONE occurrence that was a hoax. Sure, there are many hoaxes, but also many valid accounts. This is not just based off of one occurrence.
StevenQuayle.com


Allow me to reiterate, I don't need to watch the entire series because in the first few minutes alone there are clearly doctored photographs.

Here's an article with more pictures.

It is mathematically impossible that these creatures existed, in accordance to the square-cube law. I believe giants are possible, but you're simply regurgitating false information.


Uhhhggg .... Using National Geographic to debunk something is no good. Sometimes photos are faked for a very useful purpose ...one being ...to discredit the context of whatever is in the photo.

They are pretty good at mixing truth with fiction. They lie. Just like every other mouthpiece for a government.

Our current use of mathematics is not the end all for everything. And using the word "Impossible" just doesn't sit well with me.

Dinosaurs existed on this planet for a long time. Seems to me they had no problem existing even though they were and still are the biggest creatures to roam planet earth.

Soooo...believing that a 12 foot Human or biped can exist isn't that far out.
edit on 25-4-2012 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)


Yes it is that far out. Using your logic a whale shouldn't exist, but the fact is, a whale is designed (lol, evolutionary or otherwise) to be the size it is. Of course there will always be what is classed as a 'freak' of nature, that is taller/shorter than the norm. That doesn't equate to a race of giants.

Getting back to the OP, why should/how could the Smithsonian prevent research anyway? If they see no reason to believe a race of humans much taller than our understanding ever existed, that's fine, but they have no legal right to prevent research, do you actually mean they won't fund research into something for which there is no proof ever existed?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by parkwoods21
 


i guess haters gonna hate...

it wouldn't prove that at all, but it would simply show that there is consistency between ancient records of Giants and the Bible.

Whether one "stole" stories or not is something that can't be determined by simply finding out the reality of Giants.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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I have not seen any believable evidence of a humanoid over 9ft. And an recent photo is 100% Photoshop HOAX!



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 





do you actually mean they won't fund research into something for which there is no proof ever existed?


Well , thats like saying we shouldnt fund research to advance technology because there is no proof that it will work.

Everything is Science fiction until its science fact.

If there are many reports of Giant Humans , not just the Bible, thats like saying there are many reports that Electromagnetic properities exist , but we cant prove it. Until we fund it and look for it.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainLJB
Start Here:
www.bibleufo.com...

Go here for the BIG STORY about the Smithsonian cover-up of Giants:
www.xpeditionsmagazine.com...

And Here:
www.onelight.com...

Interesting page Here:
www.burlingtonnews.net...

Lots of dead guys Here:
s15.zetaboards.com...

Even if we throw out a bunch of weak sources, such as myths and fairy tales, there's still a ton of data out there which supports the existence of Giants.

And just between you and me, it's always been a fantasy of mine to make love to a 12' woman...


Thank you for this... I also read a story about a farmer finding a giant skull in Texas.. When they investigated the area of where the skull was found the men discovered a underground fortress. It was even in the local paper back in the 1800's... I think this story might be listed on Steve Quayle's website also.

I believe this explains how all the megaliths and great temples were constructed... Read up on Baalbek.. how could that have been built? We couldn’t duplicate that with today’s technology.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by lupr3
 


Actually, the building of those huge tamples (and the pyramids and the Easter Island statues) Have been solved.

It's probably worthy of another thread since it doesn't require Giants. Let me just dump this here, chopped from my unpublished book:

The latest theory to explain how the pyramid was constructed comes from a French materials scientist named Dr. Joseph Davidovits: the pyramid blocks were cast in place from concrete! No massive quarrying and moving required! No super-hard cutting tools required! No massive scaffoldings to support massive blocks required! All they would have to do is extract small blocks of soft limestone from quarries and break them up using water into mortar that's easily transportable to the pyramid construction site where it would be mixed with other chemicals and poured into molds. Precision blocks on-the-spot would be the end result. The theory has been around for decades--but it goes against the long-established block-lugging theory, so Davidovits will probably go to his grave before his research becomes conclusively-proven fact. Everything I've read supports this concept that the stones are artificial, too good to be real, quarried stones. Extrapolating from this mastery of molding and cements, it explains those incredibly detailed bas-reliefs and smaller structures. Using molds makes the seemingly impossible "chiseling" of stones possible. Use a wood-etched hieroglyphics sheet for a wall mold and there's no need for high-precision chiseling, where one error would destroy an important work of art or history. I'm also wondering if all those "bread-baking ovens" used to feed the workforces out of old Egypt weren't in reality molds or vats for preparing the limestone compounds... Davidovits also delved into Egyptian history and corrolated the running out of raw materials to create this cement substance with the decline of Egyptian constructs. Obviously when resources diminished, new construction waned and eventually with an end to buildings the formula was lost to history. Presumably the same pattern can be seen with other monolith-mad societies of prehistory (the ones which used this concrete process, that is, and not the old hammering approach).

Sorry to shatter the anti-gravity/levitation/acoustics believers...



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by CaptainLJB
 


they've been "solved" but not entirely solved. They have theories on how they might have done them. But they've changed the theories several times.

For the pyramids, a Japanese film crew in recent years went to Egypt to try to recreate the process and film it. After the first time they put the huge lime stones (which they had to lift by crane) into a boat, it just sank right to the bottom of the river. The filming was abruptly stopped and cancelled.

But, I still don't think you have an easy explanation for places like Baalbeck. Perfectly cut stones weighing 2500 TONS just don't move into place even with millions of slaves working together.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by CaptainLJB
 


But what about Baalbek? Take a look at those foundation stones. Those stones were cut and then moved. Some weighing up to 1,500 tons... My father is an engineer. and i showed him about Baalbek. I didn't bring up any theories, but simply asked him how it could have been done. I still haven't gotten an answer from him on that.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Dextraphite
reply to post by fxtrademark
 


and why would this be? Because it would essentially validate the Bible?


The bible gets one thing right and it must all be true?

I don't think so



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by lupr3
reply to post by CaptainLJB
 


But what about Baalbek? Take a look at those foundation stones. Those stones were cut and then moved. Some weighing up to 1,500 tons... My father is an engineer. and i showed him about Baalbek. I didn't bring up any theories, but simply asked him how it could have been done. I still haven't gotten an answer from him on that.


Don't discount human ingenuity
www.archaeology.org...

Just because we don't know how doesn't mean it was gaints

The heaviest stones moved in baalbek were 800 tons the 1000 ton block was unmoved.


EDIT: Some good info on the subject www.ramtops.co.uk...
edit on 25-4-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)




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