Aliens will never invade us...heres why!

reply to post by aytacaksel


Maybe there is some super use, but, oil is Hydrogen and Carbon, 2 of the most adbundant substances in the universe.

If you are so smart to get here, you are smart enough to manufacture your oil.

A class zero civilization? .. humans invented this classification system, so the logic of your conclusion is flawed immediately... I'm aware of that classification system, but unless the aliens use the same system it's a silly assumption to make..

Resources would be a valid reason for an alien to invade the planet.. and there's even proof to back it up..

Source: Asteroid mining venture backed by James Cameron, Google CEO Larry Page

Now let us consider life, and the possible scale.. we look at life as we see it here.. relative to our average size.. There could be advanced biological life living anywhere in the universe, even our galaxy .. that is no larger than the size of a pin.. We could very well be planning to do the very thing you say they will never do within the next 5-10 years and not even realize it.

Now say that in the cosmic scale of things, our galaxy is filled with pebbles for planets and our neighbors need to mine some resources.. they may not realize or even care we're down here...

In other words an invasion may not be the classic tv version you see on TV, it could just be a major sweep of the galaxy for all resources that can be collected..

Do I think this is going to happen? very unlikely.. but any one science minded would NEVER say "Never" ..

okay, they are smart enough for travel between stars and they can have anyting they want with out killing another civilization.
so lets try to find why they want to invade us :p

Originally posted by aytacaksel
okay, they are smart enough for travel between stars and they can have anyting they want with out killing another civilization.
so lets try to find why they want to invade us :p

Scale .. again.. if these alien life forms are gigantic then they may not even think of us as much more than bacteria .. besides, intergalactic travel takes energy and energy does need to be collected by some means.. they probably wouldn't come here for Earth, they'd probably come here for our Sun.. and that would be just as bad for us

We as humans make silly mistakes.. we look at everything relative to us.. our size, our biology, our resource needs.. our physics.. everything we look at is relative to us and our place in this universe.. dangerous mistake to make such assumptions that other life would be anything like, or THINK anything like us.

reply to post by miniatus


Good argument....but...

My logic isnt flawed by the classification system. Its a measure of advancement, progression, acheivement etc, 0 meaning low, 2 meaning high, a classification system is that by definition.

Change the numbers if you like, the meaning is the same, something else is better than the other depending where it lives in that scale.

Humans invented the number 1, for a single occurance of something.....again a classification, does that make our math flawed? and 1 + 1 doesnt equal 2?

reply to post by aytacaksel


They don't want/need anything, thats the point of the post

Theres nothing they need to come here for, aside from sheer amusement, but that trait alone, almost guarantees that we are safe. Oh and tourism haha

Originally posted by fuserleer
reply to post by miniatus

 

Good argument....but...

My logic isnt flawed by the classification system. Its a measure of advancement, progression, acheivement etc, 0 meaning low, 2 meaning high, a classification system is that by definition.

Change the numbers if you like, the meaning is the same, something else is better than the other depending where it lives in that scale.

Humans invented the number 1, for a single occurance of something.....again a classification, does that make our math flawed? and 1 + 1 doesnt equal 2?

You're comparing math to a civilization advancement system.. I don't think we could even fairly assume that aliens have the same concept of mathematics as we do, they might find it quaint or not even understand it.. that's another assumption.. but yes you can't relate math with the simple civilization classification system.. that was created by a man who had an idea for utopia and that was how he viewed how our progression should go. You can't assume for sone single solitary moment that arc would apply to a civilization disconnected from our own =) ..

Originally posted by fuserleer
reply to post by aytacaksel

 

They don't want/need anything, thats the point of the post

Theres nothing they need to come here for, aside from sheer amusement, but that trait alone, almost guarantees that we are safe. Oh and tourism haha

And that's a horrible assumption to make =) .. I think the article I posted earlier about James Cameron and Larry Page looking to mine asteroids in space is a good example... civilizations need resources, they may not need it for energy but they would probably need it to build. they may also have over populated their own society and are looking for places to colonize.. we might have to be wiped out purely because our diseases present a risk to their biology.. Heck, they could even be a criminal population ejected from their planet and looking for a place to call home... it's simply foolish to assume an advanced civilization HAS to be peaceful even though the scale of civilized society assumes they would have destroyed themselves first.. that is an assumption

There's so many reasons why they WOULD..

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate here, while I believe aliens exist somewhere out there.. given the vast size of the universe, it's unlikely I'll ever live to see one.

reply to post by miniatus


I'm glad you posted

Good arguments from you, but I think theres counter arguments.

You say that other species may not think like us, but logic again is fundamental and universal, especially if its survival driven and not emotional.

Any animal, alien lifeform, is going ultimately be survival driven, reproduction is survivial at its most raw, without reproduction of that species, there is no species.

Individual survival also is key, and that is driven by simple logical rules. Rules that are going to be the same no matter where you are from.

"I'm hurt and if I carry on, I'm going to die" result "stop what you are doing and recover". That thought process surely, and many others, is going to be the same whether you are human, reptilian, or any other species. Especially when you have come so far and have limited resources, alien-power etc.

Warfare tactics are going to be the same, sure they may have some surprises, but generally theres only so many ways to physically skin that cat.

Thus, the way that I think, is not going to be much further from how they think when driven by even simple logic.

reply to post by miniatus


And if Larry Page and James Cameron went to an asteroid and found aliens there, would they start a fight for said asteriod, or just go and find another one?

reply to post by miniatus

There is a misconception that the Larger a Rocky Earthlike Planet is in a Goldilocks Zone...that any lifeforms that are land envilomentally based and not aquadic would be Gigantic. It is actually the opposite. The greater the Mass of a Planet and although Mass does not determine size...as there have been Super Earths already Discovered...Planets that are of about the same density but much larger such as 2 or 3 times the diameter of Earth thus having a greater mass thus a greater Gravitational effect on anything on the surface...it would be a higher probability that a Smaller and Stockier and higher muscle density SMALLER LIFEFORM would come from such planets.

Any planet that has a mass lessor than Earth...say a Planet the same size as Mercury with the same mass as Mercury which is relative to Earths planetary rocky density to an extent....and is also in the Goldilocks Zone...would have a Higher Probablility of Evolutionary development of a Larger but less sturdy than Human Muscular Density and although being Taller or over all larger lifeform...be nothing in comparison of a Giant Humanoid Creature.

This basic principle is shown as in Earths Oceans where Gravity is partially negated...large Fish and Mammals such as Whales can grow to HUGE sizes but cannot walk on land or develop evolutionary appendages such as apposable thumbs. A Dolphin is intelligent but cannot hope to develop interstellar tech.

Thus E.T. Race evolutionary development would be similar...plus or minus several hundred pounds as well as plus or minus Hight from 2 ft to 14 ft...in approximation. Split Infinity

Originally posted by fuserleer
reply to post by miniatus

 

I'm glad you posted

Good arguments from you, but I think theres counter arguments.

You say that other species may not think like us, but logic again is fundamental and universal, especially if its survival driven and not emotional.

Thanks - I find things like these interesting to ponder.. And you could be right, but that's another assumption.. If they are survival driven, say, the end of their species and the need for a new home.. That would only be another reason to displace us..( aka. invade )

Originally posted by fuserleer
Any animal, alien lifeform, is going ultimately be survival driven, reproduction is survivial at its most raw, without reproduction of that species, there is no species.

Individual survival also is key, and that is driven by simple logical rules. Rules that are going to be the same no matter where you are from.

"I'm hurt and if I carry on, I'm going to die" result "stop what you are doing and recover". That thought process surely, and many others, is going to be the same whether you are human, reptilian, or any other species. Especially when you have come so far and have limited resources, alien-power etc.

That applies, on an individual level and it depends on the situation, but if there's remnants of a civilization looking for a new home and we fit the bill.. They will be thinking of their own people, their own offspring, their own social group before they would be thinking of us .. Especially if we were considered insignificant in relation to them.. Remember what I said earlier, we look at everything relative to US .. they will be looking at us, relative to THEM .. and there's no guarantee that their perspective is as ours.. or even that their logic is the same.. Our human logic system is the product of our situation on this planet. ( i'm not referring to basic, systematic logic )

Originally posted by fuserleer

Warfare tactics are going to be the same, sure they may have some surprises, but generally theres only so many ways to physically skin that cat.

Like a nanobot invasion that is designed to wipe out any incompatible life forms? =) who's to say they'd even come in person .. they could send a probe designed to prepare/sanitize the planet prior to showing up.

Originally posted by fuserleer

Thus, the way that I think, is not going to be much further from how they think when driven by even simple logic.

I guess the point I'm trying to drive home is that it's not safe to say Aliens would "NEVER" invade us.. you have many good reasons why it might be considerably less likely.. but it's really going to depend on the motivations for even making the trek in the first place.. what is their situation when they arrive? are they in dire need of a new home? resources? or ... scarier still .. food? .. livestock? as in us primitive things scampering around on the surface killing everything else =)

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I'm not making that misconception.. I'm not saying that life would even be coming from one of those known locations..

The size of the life form depends heavily on gravity and the available energy, as well as oxygen .. In fact it's claimed that the reason the Dinosaurs were so large was primarily because the Oxygen content of the planet was considerably higher than it is now..

I'm just not comfortable in making assumptions about the peaceful nature of a foreign entity .. even if they were smaller than us, it doesn't make them more or less dangerous ..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying fire on our alien overlords right away.. but just don't keep your hand too far from the shiny red button just in-case ( assuming it would even have an effect )

reply to post by miniatus

Well...there is the rub. Any Alien Race that has the Tech. to travel Interstellar Distances would have the ability to understand Energy/Matter conversion or understand the Unified Field Theory. Any E.T. Race having these abilities would be so far ahead of us in tech. and understanding that it would be foley to think we could do anything about any Hostilities that could break out.

It is also Highly Improbable that a Race of this Tech. Advancement would need anything from us other than Scientific Curiosity. I KNOW E.T. to be a Reality. They have been visiting for a long time. If they were to make a Hostile Move...I hardly think they would have waited this long or even have a reason to do so.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by miniatus

 

Well...there is the rub. Any Alien Race that has the Tech. to travel Interstellar Distances would have the ability to understand Energy/Matter conversion or understand the Unified Field Theory. Any E.T. Race having these abilities would be so far ahead of us in tech. and understanding that it would be foley to think we could do anything about any Hostilities that could break out.

It is also Highly Improbable that a Race of this Tech. Advancement would need anything from us other than Scientific Curiosity. I KNOW E.T. to be a Reality. They have been visiting for a long time. If they were to make a Hostile Move...I hardly think they would have waited this long or even have a reason to do so.
Split Infinity

I can't say I necessarily agree with that either.. I'm familiar with Unified Theory, but it's still just that. But there's nothing at all to state that they evolved an understanding of science in the same way that we have.. or that they think like us in any way whatsoever... They could think on a whole different level.. It's impossible to fathom the varieties of intelligence that COULD exist out there.. This is another example projecting US onto THEM .. that argument about seeing the universe and it's potential life, relative to us.. I don't blame you because it's the only thing we know.. I just tend to think that just because it's all we know, doesn't mean it's all there is..

We invented our current knowledge of Science, Physics and Mathematics.. we developed formulas based on that system *we* created.. we tend to think that any advanced civilization would go along that path.. that's a horribly vain assumption =) .. we could have everything wrong.. There's no universal law saying we're right.. We don't even know what other parts of the universe might be like... What other forces exist, what other elements may exist.. even the basic laws of physics could be turned on their ear...

So no, I don't automatically assume that any intelligent intergalactic traveler understands mathematics, or the unified theory.. they may.. or they may have had a similar theory that they took further.. or proved false.. who knows? =) I'm not going to assume it.

On that note, I have to be up in a few hours.. it was fun!

Food. They may think humans taste good. Not the most pleasant thought but a possibly. If they are so advanced they may see us as we see cattle.

They will never take the US,We got 2 secret weapons.

The Navy Seals and Chuck Norris

reply to post by miniatus

You are right...but it is the only reference that my not sufficently evolved brain can use as an example. LOL!
Split Infinity

Originally posted by fuserleer
We, humans, are the hooligans of the universe, and woe betide anyone that wants to have a bust up!

There's your reason. To blast us back to the stone age so that we don't mess up the nice neighborhood.

This is where they dropped off their criminals and rejects years ago, they just keep checking on us to make sure we don't get off this rock...