A taboo human instinct from a personal perspective

Originally posted by 3n19m470
What a frightening area of thought! Now I am almost afraid to have any kids! Our sense of morality will not budge on the issue of whether there would be a benefit to eliminating these people from society, and I am glad for that because I would never agree to that. And who knows which ones of us would be here today. I consider lyself to be extremely empathetic. But how do we know that's what it is? What if someday we can scientifically say which babies were born with souls and which were destined to wreak havoc on our societies? Would we put them into an asylum or camp? Could we live with that? Is it our own empathy that prevents us from improving our society, in life's most cruelly invisioned catch 22? Or is it a test? Could the babies be programmed, Monarchn style, from a young age not to cause harm to living things, and so then live a "normal" life? Would that then lead to all babies being programmed in this way? What would happen if one baby was mistakenly not programmed properly? Would he rise to rule over humanity, being the only one capable of causing harm to any human?

Oh come off it, babies are babies. All are products of their parents genes, fears and society as a whole. The bad apple in a bunch will always happen because of the above and what happens to them throughout life. Since we are not perfect beings, with a perfect society kids go astray. That's our fault, not the babies.

Originally posted by BrittanyLea
Does the baby seem affectionate towards you? Does he seem to enjoy your attention? Does he show any signs of autism?

He doesn't like to be held at all, but he does like when I talk to him face to face. Not sure about the signs of Autism, he babbles a little bit, smiles when I smile, but he can't hold himself up yet in a sitting position or on his belly.

Originally posted by lilowl53

Originally posted by BrittanyLea
Does the baby seem affectionate towards you? Does he seem to enjoy your attention? Does he show any signs of autism?

He doesn't like to be held at all, but he does like when I talk to him face to face. Not sure about the signs of Autism, he babbles a little bit, smiles when I smile, but he can't hold himself up yet in a sitting position or on his belly.

If I was him mum I'd get him checked out with the doc's. He might just be temperamental about being held, but he might have a problem with his stomach or something.

reply to post by Hecate666


Exactly! I often think I am just seeing him for what he will turn out to be. I have also had the same thoughts about other kids but it was never so weird as this one. I said a few post back that his mom is a really nice lady and so is his dad, which is why I get the inkling that they also feel something is off.

reply to post by Suspiria


Your first post made me LOL!! The things people do to their babies is ridiculous!

I know she takes him to the doctor's like she should,(thank goodness) but she's never said anything about his stomach or any other things the Dr might find. We have the same pediatric Dr, so I feel confident that he would see anything off.
I know each child is different but even with my three boys each one started off the same only to adapt to their own unique personalities later. This baby doesn't seem interested in anything around him, he will just stare at me, no matter where I am in the room. I can see him out of the corner of my eye, sitting in his bounce chair, starring at me. I have to laugh at it but at the same time it also gives me the willies.

Very odd.

I think a baby who engenders such negative feelings would be rather vulnerable. Already he's being passed around, I'd be surprised if that isn't already something that's going to be source of negative reinforcement later in life.

Did you know, that which enables a person to be a very good contractual killer is exactly the some thing that enables a different person to be a great Formula 1 race driver? Some people are born with a specific lack of a certain type of fear and social anxiety. These people aren't normal, but the difference between them being a ruthless killer or a fearless test pilot is entirely in the upbringing.

If that kid has the sort of affliction I'm suspecting he may have, he will need very focus guidance. It's possible he could grow into the sort of person people would think of as a hero, or he could grow to be something very scary and the deciding factors are under the control of those who raise him.

He may not be that sort, I could be entirely wrong.... but could be worth reading up on and seeing how he fits the known psychological traits of those sorts. Labels are of course handy for such considerations, sorry I don't have the label right now, but I'll have a look and see if I can find it for posting here.

Ok, I'm struggling to find the name of what I'm thinking of, but what I was referring to in the above post is an extraordinary psychological predisposition to risk taking. It's a little more complex than it sounds.

If the little fella has such a predisposition, that might explain why he makes you feel uncomfortable and also why he stars at you in an odd (analyzing?) way so much... like, as if he's sort of above you in the food chain.

As I said, I could be wrong. I'm just referring you to what might be a genuine cause.

Sorry I couldn't find the actual label of that specific predisposition, if I do come across it I'll be sure to come back and post it for you.

Good luck, to you, the kid's parents and everyone involved.

This is one of the most interesting personal posts I've seen in a while - and thanks OP for telling your story in spite of the taboo.

I took an interest in understanding body cues we give off and read from others years ago. I'm interested, given this young one's limited scope of communication abilities, whether or not his pupils are dilated when you move close to him. Dilation, or widening of the pupil, indicates that we are happy to see another person. When pupils narrow, a very creepy feeling is conveyed, despite any other indications of happiness. It conveys disdain, and we all do it when confronted with anything or anyone that makes us feel anger.

Not too long ago I had a boss who was, let's say, a bit touched. While overcompensating for his disdain for us all, he would just smile with his mouth - not his eyes. But for me, the real creep-factor set in while seated across from him, noticing for the first time that his pupils contracted while observing his staff. It was hard at first to notice because his eyes were dark-brown. It's contended in evolutionary psychology circles that this is the reason why women prefer men with blue eyes: their intentions are easier to read.

Male babies fare far worse at maintaining prolonged eye contact due to their higher levels of testosterone, which facilitates involuntary muscle movements. His maintained eye contact is off for a boy.

Departing from behavioral cues, I can't help but wonder whether or not this baby's mother's perception of his arrival as being somewhat short of a blessing could have had an effect on the baby. Babies have poor vision, don't understand language and have no social context for interpreting any behavior to be good or bad. But their sense of smell, and how it analyzes pheromones produced by those around them will never be more developed than at birth. It's our oldest and most accurate sense. I'm sure the baby is keenly aware that the scent of his mother is missing. And that missing scent could cause the child to determine his world isn't very meaningful.

Please keep this one close if you can. You may be the only adult in his life who is capable of opening the door to beneficial human relationships.

reply to post by Recouper


Thank you for looking. I have been reading through some things similar trying to find something that seems right. It does seem like something is missing. I am thinking I may have to wait until he is a little older to see exactly what his personality develops into.

Originally posted by chasingbrahman
This is one of the most interesting personal posts I've seen in a while - and thanks OP for telling your story in spite of the taboo.

I took an interest in understanding body cues we give off and read from others years ago. I'm interested, given this young one's limited scope of communication abilities, whether or not his pupils are dilated when you move close to him. Dilation, or widening of the pupil, indicates that we are happy to see another person. When pupils narrow, a very creepy feeling is conveyed, despite any other indications of happiness. It conveys disdain, and we all do it when confronted with anything or anyone that makes us feel anger.

Not too long ago I had a boss who was, let's say, a bit touched. While overcompensating for his disdain for us all, he would just smile with his mouth - not his eyes. But for me, the real creep-factor set in while seated across from him, noticing for the first time that his pupils contracted while observing his staff. It was hard at first to notice because his eyes were dark-brown. It's contended in evolutionary psychology circles that this is the reason why women prefer men with blue eyes: their intentions are easier to read.

Male babies fare far worse at maintaining prolonged eye contact due to their higher levels of testosterone, which facilitates involuntary muscle movements. His maintained eye contact is off for a boy.

Departing from behavioral cues, I can't help but wonder whether or not this baby's mother's perception of his arrival as being somewhat short of a blessing could have had an effect on the baby. Babies have poor vision, don't understand language and have no social context for interpreting any behavior to be good or bad. But their sense of smell, and how it analyzes pheromones produced by those around them will never be more developed than at birth. It's our oldest and most accurate sense. I'm sure the baby is keenly aware that the scent of his mother is missing. And that missing scent could cause the child to determine his world isn't very meaningful.

Please keep this one close if you can. You may be the only adult in his life who is capable of opening the door to beneficial human relationships.

edit on 4/25/2012 by chasingbrahman because: (no reason given)

Next time I have him (tomorrow) I will pay attention to his pupils and see how they react. As far as I can recall now, his pupils always seemed very small, but I will check on that. On that, when you say woman prefer Blue eyes, my husband has very dark brown eyes and I get so frustrated because I can never interpret when he is being serious or joking. Now I know why, lol!

The "ugg" factor made me think of this.



Maybe it is just a matter of patience, waiting for the baby to acclimatise to . . . life.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I never saw that version before. I was loling hard when the mommy duck and daddy duck were arguing. Still smiling over that.

reply to post by BrittanyLea

It's a cute version.

The quote "a face only a mother could love" is true, but sometimes even a mother can't love it either. That's where the real true hearts come in. Loving kindness. Holding the humane line for humanity when nobody else can or will. It has to be done.

reply to post by Agarta


I am going to look into this, I am very interested in the theory. I have always thought that there just could not be that many souls to go around, even in reincarnation, The rate of people being born is always more than the amount of people dying. I have also wondered when does the soul actually enter the body, while in the womb or after birth. Interesting!

Originally posted by chasingbrahman
This is one of the most interesting personal posts I've seen in a while - and thanks OP for telling your story in spite of the taboo.

I took an interest in understanding body cues we give off and read from others years ago. I'm interested, given this young one's limited scope of communication abilities, whether or not his pupils are dilated when you move close to him. Dilation, or widening of the pupil, indicates that we are happy to see another person. When pupils narrow, a very creepy feeling is conveyed, despite any other indications of happiness. It conveys disdain, and we all do it when confronted with anything or anyone that makes us feel anger.

Not too long ago I had a boss who was, let's say, a bit touched. While overcompensating for his disdain for us all, he would just smile with his mouth - not his eyes. But for me, the real creep-factor set in while seated across from him, noticing for the first time that his pupils contracted while observing his staff. It was hard at first to notice because his eyes were dark-brown. It's contended in evolutionary psychology circles that this is the reason why women prefer men with blue eyes: their intentions are easier to read.

Male babies fare far worse at maintaining prolonged eye contact due to their higher levels of testosterone, which facilitates involuntary muscle movements. His maintained eye contact is off for a boy.

Departing from behavioral cues, I can't help but wonder whether or not this baby's mother's perception of his arrival as being somewhat short of a blessing could have had an effect on the baby. Babies have poor vision, don't understand language and have no social context for interpreting any behavior to be good or bad. But their sense of smell, and how it analyzes pheromones produced by those around them will never be more developed than at birth. It's our oldest and most accurate sense. I'm sure the baby is keenly aware that the scent of his mother is missing. And that missing scent could cause the child to determine his world isn't very meaningful.

Please keep this one close if you can. You may be the only adult in his life who is capable of opening the door to beneficial human relationships.

edit on 4/25/2012 by chasingbrahman because: (no reason given)

I just wanted to let you know that when I was playing with him today on several different occasions, and even during feeding his pupils didn't dilate at all. Perhaps what you are suggesting is it!

reply to post by lilowl53


I just checked in to see if you had posted since you'd mentioned you were scheduled to get together with him today! Does he have a favorite toy? I'm wondering if they dilate when he sees the toy. The reason I ask is this may help to determine whether he has some type of a personality feature that causes him to regard people as threatening or disgusting (think paranoia or sociopathy), or if his pupils simply fail to dilate period, which would indicate a neurological source.

If they dilate when he is shown his favorite toy, then I wouldn't be concerned with anything neurological, and would lean more toward a personality disorder that's either inborn, or induced by a lack of maternal interface.

When pupils don't contract (as they would when encountering a bright light), it's a strong indication of a concussion. I say this to keep your eyes peeled for any signs of abuse. The most successful abusers are charming, intelligent and likable. Your description of his mom seems to at least fit the bill. And now that I said that...check mom's eyes when she arrives at your home to pick him up. They should dilate big and wide when she sees him, and you should notice her making some type of movement toward him, even with just her hands or feet pointing in his direction. If you don't see this, well, oh boy.

Anyhoo, we at least have some kind of an idea why, or at least partially why, this little guy is giving folks the willies! Keep us updated. Since infants mainly communicate with eye contact, match his - it will only give him reassurance that you're there for him. I'm not someone who would be considered a baby person, but something about this story is absolutely heartbreaking.

reply to post by chasingbrahman


I will defiantly check out mom's reactions when she comes later. I have lots of different baby toys here and he never shows any interest in any of them. He's lacking the grasping skill so I have to hold the toys in front of him, and then I make them work or whatever.

I read an article about a babies cries and the correlation to psychological disorders if the cry was particularly high in pitch. Have you heard of this? This baby also has a very high pitched screech of a cry,so that maybe be another tell tell sign.

Hmm.

Well, I would certainly not say anything is wrong with you. Having not met the child in question, I can also not help confirm that there is anything right or wrong with the child. I wouldn't put too much stock into the way people around you agree with your thoughts on the child. That could be a kind of empathic (scientific variation intended more than ESP - it would be based on body language and emotional closeness of the individuals in question) reaction the people around you are having in regards to your reaction, or that you're reacting to one of them.

Assuming its not some kind of empathic weirdness going on, it's not impossible that there is something off with the child. There may be some subtle disorder not yet identifiable that's rubbing people the wrong way. These are all the scientific and grounded explanations I can think of.

There's a whole slew of paranormal and conspiracy-filled things that could be brought up as well, from changelings to endless alien ancestry theories to demons and angels. Its pretty much impossible, if any of those are the case, to make guesses based on the information provided. I won't call them impossible, or even horribly unlikely, but I think the more mundane explanations of scientific empathy or undiagnosed "problems" are far more likely.

You're taking great care of the kid, debatably better than the mother based on your original post, so I wouldn't say there's too much to be concerned about here!

reply to post by mugenginga


I am looking at this from all angles, even the seemingly bizarre and paranormal. Now I am basic protection mode, I don't want him to have some terrible psychological problem as I will likely be his sitter until he is ready for school, so that's 4-5 years. I also hate to things that any type of paranormal event has occurred, but I never doubt those as possibilities as I have had my own fair share of experiences in those areas. Since I won't have him again until Tuesday I am planning to cleans my house, plus my family, then him when he comes back. Just to see if it helps.

I didn't mention it before, but I have been having terrifying nightmares since I've been watching him, as well as some unexplained experiences by both myself and my kids. I know in Psychic attacks that can happen and then, I wouldn't doubt if it has something to do with his parents. Although they are very nice people they are very negative at the same time. I know they butt heads on a daily bases and that the tension between them has been pretty thick at times. In that case he may have been a prime suspect for an attack..... The possibilities are endless, but no matter how much I try to open my heart to him, it's still just me "acting".

reply to post by lilowl53


Well, you're paying attention and you seem far from stupid. I mean even if the most outlandish possibility happens with the kid, I think you'll be okay because you're paying attention.

People (ignoring functioning receptive telepaths for the moment here) can only judge people on their behavior. So even though you're just "acting", that's what's going to come through. Don't beat yourself up too much. My opinion may be only that of one person, but I think you're handling things just fine. Just try not to get TOO caught up in the potential paranormality of things.