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Quantum Experiments, Proof that Human Consciousness influences Particles

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by Samuelis
 


You wouldn´t have to go that far. Erasing the info is virtually the same thing, as long as the info cannot reach the experimenter the interference pattern is present.

It already is proven with the experiments I posted.




posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by Samuelis
 


I think the results in this post really prove it.



Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by InTheLight
 


I would say consciousness is, this is a post I made earlier.



Scully and Drühl found that there is no interference pattern when which-path information is obtained, even if this information was obtained without directly observing the original photon, but that if you somehow "erase" the which-path information, an interference pattern is again observed.In the delayed choice quantum eraser discussed here, the pattern exists even if the which-path information is erased shortly later in time than the signal photons hit the primary detector.


The non interference pattern is already on the screen before they erase the wich path info, yet when the experimenter checks the screen later, it still shows an interference pattern.

How is that possible? It's only possible because after the fact, the wich path info is not available, so the pattern on the screen adapts to the experimenter not knowing the wich path, even though it was available at the time the particles hit the screen.

The pattern on the screen adapts to human consciousness. How else would you explain it?


However, the interference pattern can only be seen retroactively once the idler photons have already been detected and the experimenter has obtained information about them, with the interference pattern being seen when the experimenter looks at particular subsets of signal photons that were matched with idlers that went to particular detectors.


They are saying that the interference pattern only shows itself after the experimenter knows if the wich path info is available or not, by looking if the idlers were picked up by the detectors that are related to the wich path info not being known in this case.

You have to have an understanding of the setup of the exp to understand this.

en.wikipedia.org...

Why else would it matter what the experimenter knows, if human consciousness is not the deciding factor?

edit on 24-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)

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edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname
 


You are correct that the availability of the 'which path' determines the particle status as a wave, but you are wrong that this has to do with human consciousness. The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by masterp
 


Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.

Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.






The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.


This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname
 
nice thread S&F for you. this subject is very interesting and for me there is no doubt that we all have an influence on our reality. thanks for posting.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


My pleasure and thank you sir.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by swan001
 


DeBunked is a very serious accusation.... Care to present any information to back up this statement? The science channel still plays this as fact and to my knowledge it is. An since your just a "physicist" and not a "quantum physicist" I'd say your not qualified to answer the question either.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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to clear a bit with gramma

Originally posted by nii900

Originally posted by circlemaker

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
-So when they don't measure there is an interference pattern.

-When they do measure the interference pattern collapses.

-When they measure but immediately erase the info, the interference pattern is restored.

This proves that the physical act of measuring, the Observer Effect, is not responsible for collapsing the interference pattern.

The measuring device has interacted with the particle, yet the interference pattern remains if the info is erased.

The conclusion is again inescapable, the availability of the info is what collapses the pattern, or not.
I see no other reason for that besides it having a direct relation with the consciousness of the experimenter.


That's because the observation is done by the person/consciousness that observes the results, even if those results are observed after the experiment already happened. The machine itself doesn't "observe"... at least not yet.
if we could put human consciousness in that category of the machine too then the astral world or a shadow of a-live one is that placetime-machine where the interference is build through its human pattern in it by the very nature of a pattern - a human form?



or ...the essence of..? a human....


Exploring Personal Essence



www.thinkingallowed.com...
Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas)


edit on 25-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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and.... a natural condensation of energy happens as a reaction to (form??) a multiverse(of all human essences)
and in trusty? ways en.wikipedia.org...

>> Talks

Brian Greene: Why is our universe fine-tuned for life?
www.ted.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
A condensation reaction is a chemical reaction in which two molecules or moieties (functional groups) combine to form one single molecule, together with the loss of a small molecule.[1] When this small molecule is water, it is known as a dehydration reaction; other possible small molecules lost are hydrogen chloride, methanol, or acetic acid. The word "condensation" suggests a process in which two or more things are brought "together" (Latin "con") to form something "dense", like in condensation from gaseous to liquid state of matter; this does not imply, however, that condensation reaction products have greater density than reactants.


btw... Berei# (help·info) is a Hebrew word, which is the first word of the Torah (the first five books of the Tanach, or Hebrew Bible). It may be translated as the phrase "In the beginning of".

When used as a noun, Berei# might refer to:
The Hebrew title of the biblical Book of Genesis
en.wikipedia.org...#
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Bharat,Bharath, Bharata, Bhārat, or Bhārata may be a transliteration of either Bharata (Sanskrit: भरत, lit. "to be maintained") or Bhārata (Sanskrit: भारत, lit. "descended from Bharata") and may refer to:
en.wikipedia.org...
'cos (with) interference of the feather? formed so
en.wikipedia.org...

@2mass... en.wikipedia.org...:_Redemption
spider.ipac.caltech.edu...

edit on 25-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname
 

c
okay, so I have a thought. What happens if you set up the measuring device on the opposite side of the slit? Is it not possible, that this electron is attracted to the measuring device? I imagine The measuring device being composed of matter itself has an affect on the electron being fired! As well, the device running on electricity wouldn't this have some effect on the particle? A real physicist please explain, there are so many sources of potential interference here. I would think if the object with the slits is made from any material an electron could be drawn to or react with could have an effect on a single available electron, wouldn't an electron want to join that material ? Forgive me but I've always understood that electrons do not like to be a single electron, they want to find a balance and will happily take their place anywhere they can, so I would think something as radical as an electron would, could and should interfere with itself, and it is not in multiple places at the same time, but rather moving in many places at an unimaginable speed trying to find somewhere it will be stable, and balanced... I would believe the electron is moving faster than we can detect/perceive before I believe it is in many places at the exact same time. Light is the fastest moving thing we know of, but light is composed of something, and it too is a wave of moving particles.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


I also think it would be rather simple to set up a consciousness experiment. Set up multiple slits, instead use a detector as a target for each slit. Fire one electron, have a subject try to consciously designate a target. It shouldn't even matter if the electron is fired at the slits at this point. It could be facing the opposite direction. If human consciousness plays a role, the target will be the same as the subject intends.. Pretty simple. You could even use just the two slits, and two detectors. Subject picks a target it should match at the very least 50% of the time for this to even be probable.

Or better yet, set up the beam in a room it moves down a dark hallway, at the end of the hallway is three slits in a convex plate, three paths are split in different directions, these travel down another dark hallway, at the end of each hallway rests 3 targets, 3 detectors and 3 rooms. Each room has a window looking at the target. The windows will have blinds, 2 of the blinds will remain closed, and one opened with a conscious human being watching the detector. If it's the detectors all 3 targets should register a hit as suggested, if it's consciousness the target being observed should register a hit. If it's not human consciousness and not the equipment causing the particle to split and hit all three it will be one target at random. Am I right in this experiment proving undeniable proof ?
edit on 4/25/2012 by Ilyich because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


Please read the whole thread again and the post I repeated three times. That is what this thread is about, that it is not the physical act of measuring that is collapsing the interference pattern, because if the info is erased the interference pattern is restored, wich proves it is not the measuring device itself making the wave function collapse when the info is erased.

Also, the way the Delayed Quantum Eraser exp. is setup makes it so that there are no extra interactions with measuring devices that are making the wave function collapse.

You don't need to look for other setups to prove it cause the proof is right here in this thread.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 





I also think it would be rather simple to set up a consciousness experiment. Set up multiple slits, instead use a detector as a target for each slit. Fire one electron, have a subject try to consciously designate a target. It shouldn't even matter if the electron is fired at the slits at this point. It could be facing the opposite direction. If human consciousness plays a role, the target will be the same as the subject intends.. Pretty simple. You could even use just the two slits, and two detectors. Subject picks a target it should match at the very least 50% of the time for this to even be probable.


I think experiments have been done where people would focus their intent on a random chance generator and they could steer outcomes to significantly above the 50% normal rate.

I have to dig for it though.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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I think the question we need to be asking ourselves here is: what is information, and how is it captured and stored?

The act of measuring a particle with a photon imparts the photon with the particles information which comes back to the measuring device and is then transferred onto electrons which move through the device and allow an image to appear on the screen. Now the experiment says when this "information" is destroyed the wave pattern is re-established.

This is extremely weird, because the universe is telling us that we cannot know beyond a certain amount in any given experiment; now we need to begin to ask the question of why the universe is this way in the first place?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by epsilon69
 





This is extremely weird, because the universe is telling us that we cannot know beyond a certain amount in any given experiment; now we need to begin to ask the question of why the universe is this way in the first place?


I already said this before but my theory is that the universe is a wave of potential that collapses into solid matter based on the programming, expectations and perimeters of our specific consciousness.

Also that there is nothing but consciousness, everything else is a manifestation of it.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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This thread seems edging dangerously into holographic and ancestor simulation theory. I like this



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Snoopy1978
 


It does, glad you like.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
 


Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.

Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.






The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.


This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)


No, the wave pattern is restored when the information about the "which path" has been chosen is erased. It has nothing to do with conciousness, since consiousness does not exist.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by masterp

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
 


Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.

Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.



The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.


This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)


No, the wave pattern is restored when the information about the "which path" has been chosen is erased. It has nothing to do with conciousness, since consiousness does not exist.


Like I said, explain the results in my post above your original post. Explain how the info is erased and how it exactly influences the return of the interference pattern.

Cause there is no extra manipulation of the particles, compared to the detection in the first place, when the info is "erased". Just because your classical Physics background says it has nothing to do with consciousness doesn't explain how it isn't.

You are just repeating your mantra, the evidence and facts in this thread say that you are wrong.




This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.


Also, respond to that statement.

You have added nothing but "I am right because I'm right". Say something of substance.

Sofar all the skeptics have just said that I am wrong, but refuse to actually discuss the findings based on the results of these experiments.

As long as you refuse, nothing you say means a thing.

edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname

Originally posted by masterp

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
 


Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.

Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.



The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.


This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)


No, the wave pattern is restored when the information about the "which path" has been chosen is erased. It has nothing to do with conciousness, since consiousness does not exist.


Like I said, explain the results in my post above your original post. Explain how the info is erased and how it exactly influences the return of the interference pattern.

Cause there is no extra manipulation of the particles, compared to the detection in the first place, when the info is "erased". Just because your classical Physics background says it has nothing to do with consciousness doesn't explain how it isn't.

You are just repeating your mantra, the evidence and facts in this thread say that you are wrong.




This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.


Also, respond to that statement.

You have added nothing but "I am right because I'm right". Say something of substance.

Sofar all the skeptics have just said that I am wrong, but refuse to actually discuss the findings based on the results of these experiments.

As long as you refuse, nothing you say means a thing.

edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)


I assume you mean this:



The non interference pattern is already on the screen before they erase the wich path info, yet when the experimenter checks the screen later, it still shows an interference pattern. How is that possible? It's only possible because after the fact, the wich path info is not available, so the pattern on the screen adapts to the experimenter not knowing the wich path, even though it was available at the time the particles hit the screen. The pattern on the screen adapts to human consciousness. How else would you explain it?


According to the above:

1) the which path info is available ("before they erase the wich path info").
2) the non-interference pattern is on the screen ("The non interference pattern is already on the screen before they erase the wich path info").
3) the which path info is erased ("the wich path info is not available").
4) the interference pattern is on the screen ("it still shows an interference pattern").
5) the experimenter checks the screen and sees an interference pattern (yet when the experimenter checks the screen later).

So, when the which path info is erased, the screen changes from a non-interference pattern to an interference one.

Nothing the experimenter does alters the outcome. The only effect is the destruction of the which-path info.




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