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Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by InTheLight
I would say consciousness is, this is a post I made earlier.
Scully and Drühl found that there is no interference pattern when which-path information is obtained, even if this information was obtained without directly observing the original photon, but that if you somehow "erase" the which-path information, an interference pattern is again observed.In the delayed choice quantum eraser discussed here, the pattern exists even if the which-path information is erased shortly later in time than the signal photons hit the primary detector.
The non interference pattern is already on the screen before they erase the wich path info, yet when the experimenter checks the screen later, it still shows an interference pattern.
How is that possible? It's only possible because after the fact, the wich path info is not available, so the pattern on the screen adapts to the experimenter not knowing the wich path, even though it was available at the time the particles hit the screen.
The pattern on the screen adapts to human consciousness. How else would you explain it?
However, the interference pattern can only be seen retroactively once the idler photons have already been detected and the experimenter has obtained information about them, with the interference pattern being seen when the experimenter looks at particular subsets of signal photons that were matched with idlers that went to particular detectors.
They are saying that the interference pattern only shows itself after the experimenter knows if the wich path info is available or not, by looking if the idlers were picked up by the detectors that are related to the wich path info not being known in this case.
You have to have an understanding of the setup of the exp to understand this.
en.wikipedia.org...
Why else would it matter what the experimenter knows, if human consciousness is not the deciding factor?
edit on 24-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)edit on 24-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)
The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.
Originally posted by nii900
if we could put human consciousness in that category of the machine too then the astral world or a shadow of a-live one is that placetime-machine where the interference is build through its human pattern in it by the very nature of a pattern - a human form?
Originally posted by circlemaker
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
-So when they don't measure there is an interference pattern.
-When they do measure the interference pattern collapses.
-When they measure but immediately erase the info, the interference pattern is restored.
This proves that the physical act of measuring, the Observer Effect, is not responsible for collapsing the interference pattern.
The measuring device has interacted with the particle, yet the interference pattern remains if the info is erased.
The conclusion is again inescapable, the availability of the info is what collapses the pattern, or not.
I see no other reason for that besides it having a direct relation with the consciousness of the experimenter.
That's because the observation is done by the person/consciousness that observes the results, even if those results are observed after the experiment already happened. The machine itself doesn't "observe"... at least not yet.
Exploring Personal Essence
I also think it would be rather simple to set up a consciousness experiment. Set up multiple slits, instead use a detector as a target for each slit. Fire one electron, have a subject try to consciously designate a target. It shouldn't even matter if the electron is fired at the slits at this point. It could be facing the opposite direction. If human consciousness plays a role, the target will be the same as the subject intends.. Pretty simple. You could even use just the two slits, and two detectors. Subject picks a target it should match at the very least 50% of the time for this to even be probable.
This is extremely weird, because the universe is telling us that we cannot know beyond a certain amount in any given experiment; now we need to begin to ask the question of why the universe is this way in the first place?
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.
Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.
The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.
This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by masterp
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.
Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.
The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.
This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)
No, the wave pattern is restored when the information about the "which path" has been chosen is erased. It has nothing to do with conciousness, since consiousness does not exist.
This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
Originally posted by masterp
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by masterp
Please explain the result of my post above. and just simply saying that the act of erasing the info does that doesn't cut it.
Explain what happens with the erasure that restores the interference pattern.
The particle regains its wave status simply because the information is erased, not because a human observes it.
This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)
No, the wave pattern is restored when the information about the "which path" has been chosen is erased. It has nothing to do with conciousness, since consiousness does not exist.
Like I said, explain the results in my post above your original post. Explain how the info is erased and how it exactly influences the return of the interference pattern.
Cause there is no extra manipulation of the particles, compared to the detection in the first place, when the info is "erased". Just because your classical Physics background says it has nothing to do with consciousness doesn't explain how it isn't.
You are just repeating your mantra, the evidence and facts in this thread say that you are wrong.
This statement is wrong anyway, cause the wave pattern is restored when a human does NOT observe it.
Also, respond to that statement.
You have added nothing but "I am right because I'm right". Say something of substance.
Sofar all the skeptics have just said that I am wrong, but refuse to actually discuss the findings based on the results of these experiments.
As long as you refuse, nothing you say means a thing.
edit on 25-4-2012 by RandomEsotericScreenname because: (no reason given)
The non interference pattern is already on the screen before they erase the wich path info, yet when the experimenter checks the screen later, it still shows an interference pattern. How is that possible? It's only possible because after the fact, the wich path info is not available, so the pattern on the screen adapts to the experimenter not knowing the wich path, even though it was available at the time the particles hit the screen. The pattern on the screen adapts to human consciousness. How else would you explain it?