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Europe About to Shift Focus from Austerity to Socialism

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posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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This will mark the end of the EUSSR as governments start falling and are replaced by Socialist governments intent on spending their way out of recession. The Netherlands government has already fallen-

www.guardian.co.uk...




Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte has resigned after crucial negotiations over the country's budget collapsed over the weekend. Rutte submitted his cabinet's resignation to Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands this afternoon, following an emergency cabinet meeting. Rutte is likely to continue as a caretaker leader while Dutch politicians decide how to proceed.


France's government on the verge of a humiliating defeat to a socialist party.

www.bbc.co.uk...




French President Nicolas Sarkozy faces an uphill struggle in the second round of the presidential election, after coming second in Sunday's first vote. He won 27.1% of the vote, while his Socialist rival Francois Hollande took 28.6%, the first time a sitting president has lost in the first round.


To add to this the Spanish and Portugese governments are weak and facing civil protests at their austerity packages opening up popular movement to socialist opposition. The Greek government is illigitimate and facing mass protests in Greece as in Italy too. The UK government is fast becoming unpopular due to the coost of living and massive governmental cuts despite debt only standing at 66% of GDP.

www.bbc.co.uk...

I'm afraid all the ingredients are there for a political shift accross Europe to a socialist position and this cannot and will not be good in the long run. Socialist countries are not competative and in a time when the East is rivalling the West this is the last thing Europe needs.

Next to fall will be Spain, then Portugal will fall soon after, then the EU Centeral bank and currency will fall with the rest of Europe. The IMF cannot afford to prop up Spain when it goes.





posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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What's wrong with socialism? I'm not promoting it, just genuinely curious on your take..

What can you expect when this capitalist system has obviously failed? People are tired of being poor, unemployed, under/uneducated. When the system has failed the vast majority of common people what else can you expect but a push for change? When our democratically elected officials sell us out and don't have a financial concern in the world, people are going to start electing new officials.

It's a damn shame the US population doesn't have the brains/balls to do the same.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Ok, let's add some perspective:

France is led by a pretty right-wing dwarf who now begs for the votes of extreme-right voters (they got 18% last sunday, which is scary if you know it is a bunch of fascists). If this little Napoleon manages to get these votes, there we go again, another couple of years with a nepotist who likes to talk about "Strong France". On a personal note: that scares the hell out of me...

Rutten - a dark blue conservative - lost his cabinet that could only exist because it was supported by Wilders, an extreme-right racist populist.

And Farage... do we really have to listen to this far-right british populist and born anti-EU person?

Last time i checked, real power in EU was in the hands of right-wing bankers. Italy? Check. Greece? Check.

Mind you, I am not a socialist. My grandfather was one. Then true socialism died. They just kept the name and the logo.
I am a left-libertarian.
I am scared by what's going on over here in Europe. I am so sad having to be present in a world that is being ruled by elites.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by TinkerHaus
 


It definitely won't work at this moment. A lot of these platforms are about social aid (and in the case of France the highest tax bracket will be taxed 75%!) which these heavily indebted governments could only support with more debt. It isn't their ideologies we're complaining about, it is that these platforms won't stand up to reality.

I don't have any good alternatives besides cause the whole thing to default, though.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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It's actually quite interesting to see how extremes of left and right become more popular in economically difficult times. The far right and the far left have both gained popularity since the financial crisis.

I would also say that the political elite are indistinguishable from one another, they all promote an economic Neo Liberal ideology that is based around globalisation. Unfortunately for this political elite the masses realise that the current form of globalisation is not in their best interests and are kicking back in the ways they know how.

Take the three main UK parties, it's impossible to put a cigarette paper between them when it comes to policy.

Interesting times ahead.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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My take is somewhat different.

I truly believe that what the people are reacting against is how their tax dollars have been increasingly transfered to private, multi-billion dollar corporations. (Primarily in the financial sector) They have had enough, and would like to see their hard-earned tax dollars reinvested in programs that benefit the general populace instead.

Let's face it, austerity was nothing but a nice word to say, "we'll be giving your money away to these already fabulously wealthy people, and having you, your children and your children's children pay for it".

This is just the people saying "No!"

Of course, the establishment media, hell bent on protecting the status quo of this wealth transfer to themselves, is more than happy to revive the flame of hatred and fear of the big red menace that is labeled socialism and communism... I would warn against falling for their propaganda.

Just my 2¢.

the Billmeister



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


An interesting critique of Marxist Socialism.




posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
What's wrong with socialism? I'm not promoting it, just genuinely curious on your take..

What can you expect when this capitalist system has obviously failed? People are tired of being poor, unemployed, under/uneducated. When the system has failed the vast majority of common people what else can you expect but a push for change? When our democratically elected officials sell us out and don't have a financial concern in the world, people are going to start electing new officials.

It's a damn shame the US population doesn't have the brains/balls to do the same.




There is nothing wrong with Socialism as such, it is just that there is not a current platform for it to succeed. Socialism weighs heavily on making public services and wealth available to everybody through taxation and redistribution. However with Governments alreaqdy so indebted and corporations looking for safer, less taxable shores, this will stunt growth and increase national debt. The people will be better off in the short term but in the long term it will sentance the country to years of poverty.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 



Whatever you believe socialism is, that makes you dislike it, is not what it really is.

Socialism is not communism and is NOT marxism.

I live in a country where the socialists have been in power, pretty much since the first elections after WW2. The city I live in is considered to have the highest quality of life in the world, there is very little crime, and hardly any violent crime. No one is starving, and the homeless are only homeless because they spend all their money on drugs and/or alcohol.

It is also a capitalist country, where the biggest, most influencial companies are Banks and Insurance companies.

Many people, especially Americans, need to learn that socialism is not evil and there is absoultely nothing wrong with spending government money on SOCIAL NEEDS. This is what government is for, this is our charge to the politicians - they must provide safety, food, water and a quality of life adequate for a western nation.

Get education, then post your neo-feudalist propaganda if you still feel the need to.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
What's wrong with socialism? I'm not promoting it, just genuinely curious on your take..

What can you expect when this capitalist system has obviously failed? People are tired of being poor, unemployed, under/uneducated. When the system has failed the vast majority of common people what else can you expect but a push for change? When our democratically elected officials sell us out and don't have a financial concern in the world, people are going to start electing new officials.

It's a damn shame the US population doesn't have the brains/balls to do the same.



The rightwings are probably gonna lose in Sweden in 2014 but that will not make any differance since the left parties have gone so much right that there is almost no differance at all between them. The poleticians in Sweden are just ego parasitic manipulators like they are all over the world. The funny thing in Sweden I can vote for either this mass of political correctness facists who will never fix any problem but are in fact hiding them and is creating more problems every day or a half rasist party that are against them. Increadable since I am very antirastist I will never vote on rasists even if the are right that we are handeling integration very badly. It is time for real democracy. 1 vote for all people in all questions and to hell with all highpaided parasitic egoistc poleticians who do not do any useful anyway and only cost the taxpayers money. You do not ask someone who makes money or a living on a problem to fix a problem. They will just continue making sure they are needed by making new problems and solving as little that they can get away with.

What I mean is that even if the normal humans are stupid they will probably not be able to screw up any worse than the poleticians. I am not calling the normal humans smart but the poleticians are living in a dreamworld in another dimmension that have no contact with reality.

And for the US citizens here that like the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Can we send a bill for all the money Sweden uses on the refugees from Iraq in Sweden? You are the ones causing the trouble and we are supposed to pay for you oilincome-actions on our taxes. We have 1 city in Sweden that is supposed to have as many refugees from Iraq that you have in all US.
edit on 24-4-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by fedeykin
 




Exactly, fantastic post.

American's (or many it seems) have no idea and have such paranoia over Russia and Communism... that ANYTHING that isn't what they have now... MUST be evil.

*sigh*



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Oh yeah. I forgot to mention:

We also have the lowest unemployment rates in all of europe.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by fedeykin
 


Oh dear, I am uneducated now because I disagree with you and yet you made this decision based on only half the story as you clearly didn't read my post above yours. I expect you are from Sweden and yes the model has worked very well out there. Cost of living is high however and the national debt is quite close to that of the UK who is perceived as being in the hazard zone. I never siad socialism wouldn't work I just said it was the wrong time to start.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by fedeykin
 


Oh dear, I am uneducated now because I disagree with you and yet you made this decision based on only half the story as you clearly didn't read my post above yours. I expect you are from Sweden and yes the model has worked very well out there. Cost of living is high however and the national debt is quite close to that of the UK who is perceived as being in the hazard zone. I never siad socialism wouldn't work I just said it was the wrong time to start.


Guess again. I am not from Sweden.

I recently visited the US and stayed there for a month (I also lived there for a long time when I was kid). The price of food was almost twice as high in regular (not upscale) supermarkets. The salaries are lower in the US, as well as the income tax rate. However, everyone in my country has excellent health care, there are free hospitals with the same quality as the US has, and waiting times are often non-existent. The roads are much better quality.

I mean... I really don't know where to start to tell you the benefits of our social system. Maybe the 5 weeks of legally required vacation in any job? Or the legally required 14 months of Salary you receive every year?



edit on 24-4-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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More socialism may be beneficial, but first the money has to be there! "Borrow and spend" socialism will only lead to economic disaster. This is what the Left should realize, both in Europe and in the US.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


I don't understand your idea of it being the wrong time to start.

When is it the wrong time to start to make sure that people in your country are employed, have food, have safety, are not at war and have enough food to eat?

You talk about it not being "the right time" for france? They have an election right now, it is the perfect time to get rid of Sarkozy and do the world a favor by voting him out of office.

At this point I would like to add that I find the idea of being either left or right in politics revolting. These kinds of idealogies got us Europeans in some pretty bad situations a few decades ago.

The smartest solutions to problems are unbiased.
edit on 24-4-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by fedeykin
 


For a start I have no idea what the US has to do with this as this is a piece on Europe written by a european. Rather than hiding behind your anonimity you could tell us which great nation this is so that we can argue the facts like adults. Yet you still miss the point, I never said socialism is bad and I never mentioned Marxism, I will repeat, I said it was the wrong time for it to succeed and gave my reasons for saying so. For the uneducated one between me and you here I'm suprised that it is only me trying to debate something like an adult.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 




I just found your mistake.

I am not debating, I am not open to your point of view, since I have deemed it flawed.

I disagree completely with your post and am not willing to accept your viewpoint because I consider it flawed.

Therefore, I am not debating with you. I am telling you how it is.


To answer your question, I live in Austria.
edit on 24-4-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by fedeykin
 


Oh dear, I am uneducated now because I disagree with you and yet you made this decision based on only half the story as you clearly didn't read my post above yours. I expect you are from Sweden and yes the model has worked very well out there. Cost of living is high however and the national debt is quite close to that of the UK who is perceived as being in the hazard zone. I never siad socialism wouldn't work I just said it was the wrong time to start.


You are being lied to if you think Sweden works right now. Norway and Denmark works better from my point of view, but Sweden is lossing ground. We are becoming a lowpayed overeducated highcost society with high taxes and the poleticians are increasing them even more on enviroment issues. Sometimes I am wondering about just quiting my job and live on the state a while to get some money back. I make to little to afford to buy anything if I do not take loans and the housemarket is a oligopol/monoply where demands are not meet to increase the cost of houses and I make to much money to waste it all.

We even have people who have been in collage for years not working in their field and I am talking about technical/science subjects. They do a lot of playing around with the numbers but we have to many unemployed. A lot of refugees living here that cannot get a job when even the natives have a problem. There are to few jobs in Sweden and it seems poletician likes it that way because they keep trying to push thru lower wages.
edit on 24-4-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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The point to make of it all is not the swing to socialist parties.

Thats a reaction on the part of electorates unwilling to bear the pain of the banks. The socialist will then attempt to borrow and spend their way out of debt. That will also fail.

Its the increase in the support of far right parties (look at their polling in France). As it falls apart its not inconceivable that the folly of the Euro ushers a return about what the EU was intended to avoid in the first place.



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