Is this the quickening?

A past theory goes that the reason why as primates, we are so intelligent is that we lost
our ability to synthesize vitamin c in our livers.
Due to lack of antioxidants and increased free radical damage, this increased mutations in our ancestors' genomes and thus added information and made us more intelligent as a species.
Current day events show us living in a polluted world, full of free radical damage.
Does this mean more mutations and more information in the genome?

There are also claims of mass extinctions. These new genomes will they fill the gaps
in our polluted world?

Limbo

Reply to post by Limbo

I have never heard of this free radical theory.....do you have any sources for it? The mass extinction event happening at the moment is cause by human activity for the most part. Once a species is gone its gone nothing can replace the gap it left. But some other creature that could not flourish while it was around could exploit the situation and grow in numbers. That could affect ecosystems which could in the long create a new hierarchy.


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en.wikipedia.org...-24

Quoting wiki

Some scientists have suggested that loss of the vitamin C biosynthesis pathway may have played a role in the theory of rapid evolutionary changes, leading to hominids and the emergence of human beings.[25][26][27] However, another theory based on the theory of evolution is that the loss of ability to make vitamin C in simians may have occurred much farther back in evolutionary history than the emergence of humans or even apes, since it evidently occurred rather soon after the appearance of the first primates, yet sometime after the split of early primates into its two major suborders haplorrhini (which cannot make vitamin C) and its sister suborder of non-tarsier prosimians, the strepsirrhini ("wet-nosed" primates), which retained the ability to make vitamin C.[28] According to molecular clock dating, these two suborder primate branches parted ways about 63 to 60 Mya[29] Approximately three to five million years later (58 Mya), only a short time afterward from an evolutionary perspective, the infraorder Tarsiiformes, whose only remaining family is that of the tarsier (Tarsiidae), branched off from the other haplorrhines.[30][31] Since tarsiers also cannot make vitamin C, this implies the mutation had already occurred, and thus must have occurred between these two marker points (63 to 58 Mya).

so vit c / abundant fruit enter the diet way early on before prosimian, ie guinea pigs, and fruit bats which also need vitc in their diet, but dont appear to have experience more mutations evolutionarily.

vit c dependency thus appears to have evolved because of shift toward redundancy in the diet, not because of genetic diversity advantage in such vit c-dependent species.

sure vit c reduces mutations in our cells and lack thereof increases oxidative stress but i dont see any evidence of any significant impact on evolutionary increase in genomic variation in the gpig,. fruit bats, nor humans.

to me, its a reminder from mother nature we are omnivores not carnivores - not predators.

reply to post by BiggerPicture

Umm.. Everything about our physiology puts humans on the predatory carnivore side of the life scale. Our forward facing stereoscopic eyes. Our Intelligence. Canine teeth and other dental features for tearing and cutting. A few other features fit as well but these are all natural characteristics found and used in nature of identify predator from prey species, IMO.

I think we've always been carnivores, even if that same intelligence means some people have come to intensely dislike that fact about our species. Predators get their Vitamins too...this just isn't the place with the breakfast hour approaching to get into all they ways that generally happened in the past and these days is challenged by the SUPER-processing meat all goes through.

Originally posted by Limbo
A past theory goes that the reason why as primates, we are so intelligent is that we lost
our ability to synthesize vitamin c in our livers.
Due to lack of antioxidants and increased free radical damage, this increased mutations in our ancestors' genomes and thus added information and made us more intelligent as a species.
Current day events show us living in a polluted world, full of free radical damage.
Does this mean more mutations and more information in the genome?

There are also claims of mass extinctions. These new genomes will they fill the gaps
in our polluted world?

Limbo

edit on 24-4-2012 by Limbo because: Added

It's got &^%£ all to do with primates. Souls like ours were not even on the planet when primative man was swinging about in the tree's and forests.
I do agree with you on the other points though, so don't take my post as an insult or rant

I don't think we are evolving anymore. Evolution has a lot to do with survival of the fittest and we keep a lot of "unworthy" around...just saying.

No, we are not evolving....I wondered about it and even considered some of the bad things we see....you know...autism, OCD, etc....and I don't think these things are to our advantage...so...no...I don't think it is a quickening or an evolutionary step....I think we are a pitiful species and our time has ran out.

Originally posted by Damrod
I don't think we are evolving anymore. Evolution has a lot to do with survival of the fittest and we keep a lot of "unworthy" around...just saying.

No, we are not evolving....I wondered about it and even considered some of the bad things we see....you know...autism, OCD, etc....and I don't think these things are to our advantage...so...no...I don't think it is a quickening or an evolutionary step....I think we are a pitiful species and our time has ran out.

I would say mind over matter. There is a mind in you that evolve over time. It might be that when you evolve passed a certain stage you body will change because of your mind/spirit. At the same time society evolves and knowledge evoles and ideas evolve. Change is part of the process. Do not be to sure that the things we do not understand is not something better than the old. If things around us change drasticly maybe the people with autism will be more suitable than "normal" humans are.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by Limbo

 

I have never heard of this free radical theory.....do you have any sources for it? The mass extinction event happening at the moment is cause by human activity for the most part. Once a species is gone its gone nothing can replace the gap it left. But some other creature that could not flourish while it was around could exploit the situation and grow in numbers. That could affect ecosystems which could in the long create a new hierarchy.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

There's references on WIki. Also check this paper out
www.medical-hypotheses.com...(97)90033-5/abstract

Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by Limbo
A past theory goes that the reason why as primates, we are so intelligent is that we lost
our ability to synthesize vitamin c in our livers.
Due to lack of antioxidants and increased free radical damage, this increased mutations in our ancestors' genomes and thus added information and made us more intelligent as a species.
Current day events show us living in a polluted world, full of free radical damage.
Does this mean more mutations and more information in the genome?

There are also claims of mass extinctions. These new genomes will they fill the gaps
in our polluted world?

Limbo

edit on 24-4-2012 by Limbo because: Added

It's got &^%£ all to do with primates. Souls like ours were not even on the planet when primative man was swinging about in the tree's and forests.
I do agree with you on the other points though, so don't take my post as an insult or rant

The genetic mutations happened long before man evolved from the other species.
You can map the genentic mutation by looking at the current species and see which ones'
have this genentic mutation and which ones did not. This is how they estimate when it happened.

Also see a post I made about heart disease/strokes and how this mutation leads us open to heart disease..

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Limbo

Originally posted by Damrod
I don't think we are evolving anymore. Evolution has a lot to do with survival of the fittest and we keep a lot of "unworthy" around...just saying.

No, we are not evolving....I wondered about it and even considered some of the bad things we see....you know...autism, OCD, etc....and I don't think these things are to our advantage...so...no...I don't think it is a quickening or an evolutionary step....I think we are a pitiful species and our time has ran out.

We are evolving. The human race has become a "super organism.".
We will also be evolving on a genetic level also. The same processes of genetic mutation and natural
selection are at work. Example say someone has a genentic problem that leads them to become a loner.
They don't get a partner and are thus phased out. Their genentic information does not coniinue...
Limbo

www4.dr-rath-foundation.org...
According to this theory it happened 2.5 million years ago when free radical damage was high. Probably
a result of lack of vegetation from meteor strike.. (Ice age)


Also my other link was broken (posted it in quotes so it _should_ post here.)
"http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(97)90033-5/abstract"

advancedvitaminskin.com...

(Wow on this paper it claims each cigarette destroys 25mg of vitamin c.)

Limbo

Originally posted by Limbo

Originally posted by Damrod
I don't think we are evolving anymore. Evolution has a lot to do with survival of the fittest and we keep a lot of "unworthy" around...just saying.

No, we are not evolving....I wondered about it and even considered some of the bad things we see....you know...autism, OCD, etc....and I don't think these things are to our advantage...so...no...I don't think it is a quickening or an evolutionary step....I think we are a pitiful species and our time has ran out.

We are evolving. The human race has become a "super organism.".
We will also be evolving on a genetic level also. The same processes of genetic mutation and natural
selection are at work. Example say someone has a genentic problem that leads them to become a loner.
They don't get a partner and are thus phased out. Their genentic information does not coniinue...
Limbo

You are right that loners do not make partners and are phased out geneticly but some of the loners are not geneticly unwanted since society makes loners because of their enviroment. Some of the so called sensitive traits that might not always work today might be the best in the future so society is in a way sometimes for progress. What is seen as perfect ideal today can be tomorrow unwanted. If the genetic trait comes before society is ready to handle it then it will not continue. But at a later time the genetic trait comes back and flurishes.

Intelligence is also in a way a very doubleedged sword. The people who understand much more than others have problems with understanding to much of the world around them and in the current society knowing to much can lead to depression if you are empathetic also. If we ever get to the next stage of society where we can get our most intelligence to work in unison without ignorant manipulation from egoparasitic then we will probably see a science technical advancement that will even be faster than what has happened the last 100years.

We have not learned much about society in the last 70 years. Still making the same misstakes. Listening to others to manipulate us because of some fancy group ideals that scream of duality to enslave us.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Limbo

Originally posted by Damrod
I don't think we are evolving anymore. Evolution has a lot to do with survival of the fittest and we keep a lot of "unworthy" around...just saying.

No, we are not evolving....I wondered about it and even considered some of the bad things we see....you know...autism, OCD, etc....and I don't think these things are to our advantage...so...no...I don't think it is a quickening or an evolutionary step....I think we are a pitiful species and our time has ran out.

We are evolving. The human race has become a "super organism.".
We will also be evolving on a genetic level also. The same processes of genetic mutation and natural
selection are at work. Example say someone has a genentic problem that leads them to become a loner.
They don't get a partner and are thus phased out. Their genentic information does not coniinue...
Limbo

You are right that loners do not make partners and are phased out geneticly but some of the loners are not geneticly unwanted since society makes loners because of their enviroment. Some of the so called sensitive traits that might not always work today might be the best in the future so society is in a way sometimes for progress. What is seen as perfect ideal today can be tomorrow unwanted. If the genetic trait comes before society is ready to handle it then it will not continue. But at a later time the genetic trait comes back and flurishes.

Intelligence is also in a way a very doubleedged sword. The people who understand much more than others have problems with understanding to much of the world around them and in the current society knowing to much can lead to depression if you are empathetic also. If we ever get to the next stage of society where we can get our most intelligence to work in unison without ignorant manipulation from egoparasitic then we will probably see a science technical advancement that will even be faster than what has happened the last 100years.

We have not learned much about society in the last 70 years. Still making the same misstakes. Listening to others to manipulate us because of some fancy group ideals that scream of duality to enslave us.

I agree it's really sad that some loners are dealt a losing card by evolution but tomorrow could be freed..
Limbo