Jailed for $280: The Return of Debtors' Prisons

Jailed for $280: The Return of Debtors' Prisons

finance.yahoo.com

Although the U.S. abolished debtors' prisons in the 1830s, more than a third of U.S. states allow the police to haul people in who don't pay all manner of debts, from bills for health care services to credit card and auto loans. In parts of Illinois, debt collectors commonly use publicly funded courts, sheriff's deputies, and country jails to pressure people who owe even small amounts to pay up, according to the AP.

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We are back in the dark ages. States that do these things have had their legislators compromised by lobbyists who wine and dine them to pass or to keep such laws in operation. The people are not in power its those with money who get whatever they want placed into laws and bills all over this country and in Washington also.

How many of you or your descendents have student loan debts? How many have debts trying to survive?

Peonage is alive and well my friends. Slavery by Another Name.

Debtor's prison is a giant step towards the coming New Feudalism. As wealth becomes increasingly concentrated debtors prisons will become increasingly common. Voting will become increasingly restricted and minimum wage laws will be abandoned The majority of the population will work for nothing or face imprisonment much as they do today in offshore havens for the wealthy.

Once wealth is concentrated sufficiently into a tiny fraction of the population, the markets that support capitalism fail and central governments are replaced with local manors where the population toils for what trickles down from the Lord's tables. Police are replaced with private,security and militia in service of the Lords. the new Knights that they pay to rule their realm.

finance.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Makes no sense whatsoever. The amount of money spent by the taxpayers to house these so called "criminals" in many cases is more than the debt owed. Not too mention, being sent to jail leaves a record which could compromise finding a job so the debt could be paid back.

Why don't they go after the idiots in Washington who are running up our national debt? No, they would rather jail people who obviously have no money, damn we need a revolution.

Thanks for the catch on this. I had no idea we had states still this backward. Illinois though... No offense to the state residents. There are fine people on that side of my state's border..but the Government there is fit for the Russian Federation, not the United States.

If Illinois people are tried of the tyranny and the outright belief that rights are optional and negotiable by the State Government, Missouri is always on your western border..and we always have room for more.

Specifically, Missouri has right there in it's State Constitution:

Imprisonment for debt. Section 11. That no person shall be imprisoned for debt, except for nonpayment of fines and penalties imposed by law.

Source: Const. of 1875, Art. II, § 16.

(1951) Section 462.430, authorizing attachment for contempt for failure to surrender assets to estate, held not unconstitutional as against contention it authorizes imprisonment for debt. Zeitinger v. Mitchell (Mo.), 244 S.W.2d 91.

(1976) Held that imprisonment for contempt is proper remedy for failure to comply with court order for maintenance and child support when person disobeying order has intentionally placed himself in a position which made compliance impossible. State ex rel. Stanhope v. Pratt overruling Coughlin v. Ehlert, 39 Mo. 285 (1866). State ex rel. Stanhope v. Pratt (Mo.), 533 S.W.2d 567.

Source

I didn't realize there were actually states which DIDN'T protect their citizens from this kind of outrage. Our state will jail someone for what every state will. Don't pay a traffic ticket? Court ordered fine? Well, jail is the destination. OUTSIDE of that? Well...in Missouri we can laugh in the face of collectors who abuse the law by making that threat..and there really ISN'T a thing anyone can do about it.

(Of course..just paying one's debts IS the right way to live....)

reply to post by ArchPlayer

I had one of these debts and didn't even know it. I called the DMV about renewing my license and found out that not only was my license suspended, but that I owed $580 (on a traffic ticket of originally $28) and there was a bench warrant for my arrest. I searched around and found a receipt for having paid the ticket, but the case had been closed months before and gone to collection. There was no recourse; the case had been closed, so it didn't matter that it was paid. And $300 of the amount was a "civil fee" that was out for collection by the Franchise Tax Board!

ETA: This is in California, by the way....

reply to post by Ex_CT2


That's a disgusting story, but I hear similar all the time. It's impossible to avoid sometimes, especially if you move apartments/homes on occasion.

How does this debtor' prison idea apply to small claims wins? I have rental property debtors and contractors who've stolen from me I've sued successfully, and they have not paid me the judgement amounts. Rental property dead beats get 20 years to repay past rent in many states. I'm out almost $10k from these punks, I think prison should be a possibility for them, or they have no real incentive to repay their debts to me.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

That's a disgusting story, but I hear similar all the time. It's impossible to avoid sometimes, especially if you move apartments/homes on occasion.

How does this debtor' prison idea apply to small claims wins? I have rental property debtors and contractors who've stolen from me I've sued successfully, and they have not paid me the judgement amounts. Rental property dead beats get 20 years to repay past rent in many states. I'm out almost $10k from these punks, I think prison should be a possibility for them, or they have no real incentive to repay their debts to me.

I think the trick is to get a "summary judgment." I think one of the tactics is to schedule it in a court in the "other end" of the state; serve you the papers at a previous address or a distant relative's address; and then when you don't show up (because, even if you got the summons, you're gonna say "Why, f#$* these guys!), they get a summary judgment and start collection actions. The judges, by the way, are not only in on this, they see it as a legitimate way of collecting the "civil fee" I mentioned above....

One day these debt collectors are going to catch the wrong person and there's going to be a bloodbath. They're going to ruin the life of somebody on the edge with their prison garbage, and then somebody's going to light that debt collection agency up.

I'm honestly surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Nothing new here. It;s been going on in Florida for years now.

I think its more serious than "debtor's prison"

Under the law, debtors aren't arrested for nonpayment, but rather for failing to respond to court hearings, pay legal fines, or otherwise showing "contempt of court" in connection with a creditor lawsuit. That loophole has lawmakers in the Illinois House of Representatives concerned enough to pass a bill in March that would make it illegal to send residents of the state to jail if they can't pay a debt. The measure awaits action in the senate.

There is no such thing as debtor's prison no matter what the headline says. She was brought in on a bench warrant for not responding to a court hearing of some sort - it says so right there.

Meanwhile, I think thats a bigger issue that needs addressing.


I have TONS OF CONTEMPT for a LOT OF courts and their laws. And I should have the right to be in contempt of them without being punished. If I "plead the 5th" I can be found in contempt and do jailtime (however short or long), which is complete and utter BS. Why do we even have a 5th ammendment if I can't invoke it?


As long as I'm abiding by their stupid laws, I should have every right to feel contempt towards them.

Contempt is a secondary emotion (not among the original six emotions) and is a mix of the primary emotions disgust and anger.

I read this article, its a shame that this is going on. I have lots of student loans and not working the best job ya know.

So if it takes more money to jail someone to pay the actual debt then why not just have the government buy the debt? Then take it back in taxes slowly in few decades? Everyone wins? Except the privatized prison industry but when they win the world loses

Originally posted by PsykoOps
So if it takes more money to jail someone to pay the actual debt then why not just have the government buy the debt? Then take it back in taxes slowly in few decades? Everyone wins? Except the privatized prison industry but when they win the world loses

That would make too much sense, can't have that.

weeks ago my car was towed, impounded for a $35 parking ticket that i never received but was apparently issued.

it costed like $435 to get it out of the pound.

next time this happens i'll leave it impounded and fly one way out of the country.

why, theres a consistency between city, state, and federal corruption and spitefulness at the individual worker end, too across the board and theres nothing the people can do to turn things around unless there a new civil war in America. as long as Americans are dog eat dog at interpersonal and bureacratic levels alike (which seem to mirror each other), its gonna a be a downward spiral considering economy and everything being a violation nowadays.

Originally posted by taccj9903
Makes no sense whatsoever. The amount of money spent by the taxpayers to house these so called "criminals" in many cases is more than the debt owed. Not too mention, being sent to jail leaves a record which could compromise finding a job so the debt could be paid back.

Why don't they go after the idiots in Washington who are running up our national debt? No, they would rather jail people who obviously have no money, damn we need a revolution.

It makes perfect sense. It has nothing to do with the law, or justice, and it certainly has nothing to do with the money. If money really mattered as much as the government would have us believe, then we would be nothing, as they destroy the value of their money every day.

No, it's entirely spiritual. It is a war on the mind, body and soul. People quite literally get pulled into the dark side, because they lack integrity or are just swamped and overwhelmed with apathy. As they say.. misery loves company, and the rest is what it is, brutality, drug wars and debtor's prison.

You don't have to be in a jail cell to be in prison you know. Most people are in "debtor's prison" right now, though they won't admit it. It's kind of like "free-range cattle". Raised in a humane manner, allowed to roam around a little, but still bound for the slaughterhouse.

reply to post by ArchPlayer


They aren't going to ever get that far as long as there are over 300 million people willing to fight them.

They can stick their "new feudalism" where the sun don't shine.

In fact, more people should think about breaking their shackles for good. Why work for a bunch of goons?

I saw this happen to someone back around 2001 in Georgia.

I was a unit manager when the cops came to arrest one of my health service technicians.
They took her out in handcuffs. Since I had let them in and got her, I overheard it all - she was arrested for an ER bill that she had not paid.

She was a single mother with kids, who worked every day and made minimum wage. She had health insurance so it was just a co-pay that wasn't paid. I think it was 75.00 at the time- maybe 150. It kept going up every year so I can't remember exactly.

It horrified me. It humiliated her. In a weird way, it even humilated ME. I mean, when you witness something like that, it REAllY shows you the strong hand of the government. I was standing there workin' for 'tha man' same as she was. If I screw up, it could happen to me too, you know? I felt all that. I kinda feel that reading this.

I guess now you'd get strip searched too.

I'm always scared if they take me to jail- whether I deserve it or not- just if it ever happens- they won't give me access to prednisone, which I need, and I'll die.

Personally, i think we need to quit saying "put in jail" because that reminds me of good ol Andy Griffity who put folks in jail to dry out or talk to them, then they were out in a day.

We need to say Put People iN CAGES. Because that's what it really is.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


That's not even American. If they can't serve you they shouldn't be able to sue you.
You are supposed to have the right to answer for your 'crimes' and to know your accusers.
Civil or not, that's just not American.

The courts are full of crap. If I were a judge, and someone had not been served, I'd say serve them THEN I'll hear the case.

so, can we throw the president and congress in prison if they fail to pay the debt they owe social security???

I still have a collection agency in ny hounding me over an electric bill that we paid. a little bookkeeping error leads to 7 years of hounding, that to me, is punishment enough for a small oversight made by someone else!!!
if they are gonna start locking people up...then the collection agencies should make danged sure that their records are in order and error free!!!

reply to post by dawnstar


Just wait.

They can now strip search you because of their error too.

Here's the scenario.

Pay debt, fine, court order ect.

Computer error. STRIP SEARCHED.

Spend a week in jail until they figure it all out even though you have physical proof of paying.

Sue. Denied by the SCOTUS.

True story.