Fukushima is falling apart: are you ready?

Originally posted by underduck
Just reading through the links below the story and apparently there is a typhoon on its way and the Fukushima reactors are not prepared ... great

endthelie.com...

that happened last year.

what about a tactical nuclear strike? would this not release all the potential energy and keep it to a small area?
small like the size of japan. or is this a really bad idea.

Originally posted by TheStrugler
I dont know much about nuclear plants, but why dont they shut it down and remove the fuel rods?

They have achieved cold shutdown I believe at all for reactors at Fukushima. The problem is, like you said, the spent fuel. They never accounted for what to do with it because it's like a million times more radioactive AFTER it's been used up in a reactor! They normally just let it sit in cooling pools until.............I guess hell freezes over. It'd be like designing a sewer system in a city and not building a treatment plant for the #...

I swear, the companies that profit from nuclear energy should be brought up on crimes against humanity.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by IanPaul

 

They don't 'have to' do anything... I am expressing an opinion about how to get this toxic stuff off of the face of the earth. The way I see it, all of those spent fuel rods do is sit there and cool off... I don't know about you but at the rate we consume energy, it's scary to think that the amount of spent fuel rods will only increase.

Ok and run the risk of totally destroying another worlds ecosystem? Or drastically changing it? Not only that, its a possibility that they could RETURN at some point and reenter the atmosphere causing even MORE damage

This is the same line of thought that lead to the dumping of crap in the oceans...

Eventually......those chickens come home to roost...........

Ok, so let me get this straight, you would rather leave it here to wreck our ecosystem, rather than the infinitesimaly small chance of 'hitting' another planet and wrecking their "ecosystem"? First, as I just recently posted, send it to the 'north' and out of our solar system, just as we can do (like with the Voyagers); second, let's just assume we could hit another star system... The closest one is thousands of light-years away from us, meaning that since we aren't even close to attaining light speed, it would take MILLIONS of years to reach another star, and by then the material would have become inert.

I don't understand your reasoning, I mean, sure I wouldn't want to send it to one of our universe' neighbors, but come on... "let's just screw ourselves because I don't want to risk the 0.0000000000000000001% chance we might ruin some aliens day"... That's the way that argument reads to me.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by XtraTL

The reactors no longer have the capability of releasing radioactive material off site via the atmosphere.

Fukushima...Radiation So High - Even Robots Not Safe

Are the robots made from aluminum?

Even the moronic mythbusters could have built something valuable given 12 months, yet the japaneese and american government WITH VIRTUALLY UNLIMITED RESOURCES can't????

Yeah....no depopulation agenda. My name is charlie brown!

Originally posted by XtraTL
This thread contains the biggest load of rubbish I've seen posted on ATS.

The reactors at Fukushima are in cold shutdown, all below 70 degrees C. The radiation that is being talked about is *inside the containment vessel* making it difficult for the endoscopes and other equipment to obtain photos of the *inside* of the reactor containment vessel.

There is still radioactive water that has been leaking and they are taking measures to pour concrete into the nearby sea to prevent contamination. But measurements close to the reactor vicinity show that there is only very low levels of contamination in the nearby ocean.

The reactors no longer have the capability of releasing radioactive material off site via the atmosphere.

Now please explain how, given the containment of the problem to the site and in the occasional leak of contaminated water into the ocean that the US is is any danger whatsoever?

The thread title is absolute rubbish. Concrete nuclear reactors in cold shutdown do not "fall apart". You people are unbelievable.

That is all fine and dandy.............until reactor 4 building, which is listing heavily, falls over and the cooling pool for the spent fuel rods drains and the rods become exposed to air. If another large Earthquake occurs, it's almost inevitable that all the spent fuel at Fukushima will go up like a Roman candle. Do you not agree with that? that is wha all the experts are worried about!

More updated information on reactor 4....

The efforts of two Japanese citizens to raise awareness of the risk of a further major accident at Fukushima are to be commended. More than 13 months after the accident began – the threats from the Fukushima Daiichi site are multi-dimensional and on-going, but the under reporting of these risks as a result of nuclear crisis fatigue tied with the 24 hour news cycle can lead to a complacency on the current and future reality at the site.

The specific issue highlighted by Matsumura and Murata is the risk and consequences of the failure of the spent fuel pool at the destroyed reactor unit 4 at Fukushima Daiichi. As they report the spent fuel inventory at this pool is the largest of all 4 reactors that were destroyed by the earthquake and tsunami in March 2011.

While one can take issue with some of the language used – fate of the whole world being one – it is important to understand the scale of the threat, and why there are no easy and quick solutions. The risks from spent fuel have been known almost since the beginning of nuclear power – the radiation levels are so high that without shielding, direct exposure to spent fuel rods is fatal. Despite this knowledge the world proceeded to deploy nuclear power reactors – led by the United States – that has created a total global inventory of over one quarter of million tons. Most of this is stored in water filled pools. In addition to creating a massive plutonium stock – 2500 tons (contained in spent fuel) and compared with the micro-grams that were valued above gold in 1944 by the engineers running the Manhattan project – the spent fuel crisis has spread worldwide to every nation operating nuclear reactors.

The Fukushima Daiichi accident focused attention on the issue as never before. Japan, a nation committed to reprocessing spent fuel at the Rokkasho-mura plant, had failed to solve the problem – like other nations the reprocessing route in Japan has failed economically and technically. TEPCO, at the CEO level in the late 1990s, was less convinced of the reprocessing route to spent fuel management than other utilities. Its support for the interim storage facility at Mutsu in Aomori underscored that it was not fully committed to the reprocessing option.

The Spent Fuel Problem

One consequence of this was that the Fukushima Daiichi site contained more spent fuel than most sites. But this problem is not unique to Japan – the United States currently has over 65,000 tons of spent fuel – three quarters of which is stored in poorly maintained and vulnerable pools.

Matsumura and Murata have performed a vital public service. Their analysis and call for urgent action has been informed by such leading experts as Robert Alvarez, who for decades warned of the risks from spent fuel pool storage. Bob is a colleague of mine at Friends of the Earth in the United States and his grasp of shocking details that the nuclear industry and their governments would prefer to ignore is critically important for more people to understand.

The evidence of risk has been known for decades. The much-cited Brookhaven study is worth studying in detail. Japan’s Nuclear and Safety Agency (NISA), TEPCO and their counterparts in the U.S. and internationally have been well aware of the hazards of spent fuel. But have done nothing to reduce these significantly.

Now we face a crisis for which there is no simple, risk free solution. Removing the spent fuel rods at Fukushima Daiichi is a priority, but it will not be achieved (or even attempted) before 2013 or later. Securing the structure of the pool at Unit 4 was identified early on in the crisis, with support columns installed. But the survivability of these columns, if struck by a major seismic event, must be doubted. A decision to build a new structure around the plant with heavy lift cranes is only the start of a long process that risks failure at numerous corners. All through this period and before the spent fuel is unloaded and put in secure casks the possibility will persist of loss of cooling water leading to an exothermic reaction that would lead to the release of a vast inventory of radioactive cesium and other radionuclides. The 50 mile evacuation zone recommended for U.S. citizens in the months after the Fukushima accident began would not be sufficient to protect Japan, including Metropolitan Tokyo, from potential devastation as a society. That was the information conveyed to Prime Minister Kan more than one year ago – and it remains the nightmare today.

Apparently reactor 4 spent fuel pool is the big "if" it has the largest spent fuel inventory and if it goes, which it will inevitably unless some miracle is to happen, it won't be pretty.

"the United States currently has over 65,000 tons of spent fuel – three quarters of which is stored in poorly maintained and vulnerable pools" - makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside right

To summarize this thread for the people who do not have the time to read through it or the time to research THE FACTS at Fukushima:

All four reactors are at or near cold shut down and radiation from the actual cores is small to none. Some water is escaping the containment vessels and leaking into the sea.

The far greater problem, and what has been the problem with the design of GE Mark 1 reactors, especially building them in the most seismically active region on Earth (genius), is that the spent fuel, which is millions of times more radioactive than new fuel, is stored ABOVE the reactor core in cooling pools. Reactor 4 building is heavily damaged and is now leaning over. Experts fear that if another moderate Earthquake occurs (which is likely), the building "could" collapse and the spend fuel would be exposed to the environment. The result would be a catastrophic fire and release of radiation (mostly cesium 137) into the environment, and the other spent fuel on site, espeically at the common storage pool, would also ignite and expel massive radiation. Potentially 85 times the amount released at Chernobyl.

Sleep tight!

Originally posted by repeatoffender

Originally posted by doobydoll
If one fuel rod is capable of killing more than a couple billion souls then we've had it.

Nuclear power should be banned globally until we find a way to safely dispose of it's waste, it's just common sense really.

a bit late now dont you think?

I would have thought it common sense to begin with, before starting them up. If I can come up with that all on my own and I'm no nuclear scientist, why didn't they?

Close them all down now. Then we can start looking for ways to safely dispose of the waste. Maybe we'll find a way, maybe we won't, but abandoning these death-inducers once they've blown and continuing to operate those which haven't blown (yet) isn't solving anything. And neither will sitting there saying 'it's a bit late now'.

reply to post by PageAlaCearl


I feel as though expert liars can make a mountain out of a mole hill. The crisis never needed to reach anywhere near this porportion. Here is the solution.........dig a hole in some isolated mountain......take a crane helicopter to lift them up...put them in some enclosure...transport them to the remote location.

If all else fails......dump in the ocean. BP dumped billions of gallons of crude oil, so what difference will it make to dump nuclear rods? How many nuclear rods are we talking about anyway?

When the crisis is over give all those lost heros medals of honor, while instigating a broad investigation to convict as many government criminals as possible.

How is nuclear material normally transported if it is soooo unsafe? How is it processed in such a way that nothing can be done to reverse the process? Some things don't make sense unless you have the right clearance and the need to know. It is scary to trust a government with nuclear energy when you can't even trust it for trivial stuff.

I have said it before, I am sure. People are retards, after chernoble we should have got rid of all nuclear plants on the planet.... Less polution my ass, we bury radioactive crap and hope the containers don't crack. Stupidity, I used to think scientists had way more foresight, and would have thought about all that before building nuclear power plants....

Originally posted by pasiphae

Originally posted by underduck
Just reading through the links below the story and apparently there is a typhoon on its way and the Fukushima reactors are not prepared ... great

endthelie.com...

that happened last year.

Good catch. My mistake.

Start taking calcium and iodine tablets, big time!!!

reply to post by Drew99GT

They have achieved cold shutdown I believe

You keep repeating this, but offering no evidence.

"I believe" -- yep. That about sums it up.
It's nice to believe in Santa Claus, too.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

I feel as though expert liars can make a mountain out of a mole hill. The crisis never needed to reach anywhere near this porportion. Here is the solution.........dig a hole in some isolated mountain......take a crane helicopter to lift them up...put them in some enclosure...transport them to the remote location.

If all else fails......dump in the ocean. BP dumped billions of gallons of crude oil, so what difference will it make to dump nuclear rods? How many nuclear rods are we talking about anyway?

When the crisis is over give all those lost heros medals of honor, while instigating a broad investigation to convict as many government criminals as possible.

How is nuclear material normally transported if it is soooo unsafe? How is it processed in such a way that nothing can be done to reverse the process? Some things don't make sense unless you have the right clearance and the need to know. It is scary to trust a government with nuclear energy when you can't even trust it for trivial stuff.

Look up Yucca Mountain:

The Yucca Mountain Nuclear Waste Repository was to be a deep geological repository storage facility for spent nuclear reactor fuel and other high level radioactive waste, until the project was canceled in 2009. It was to be located on federal land adjacent to the Nevada Test Site in Nye County, Nevada, about 80 mi (130 km) northwest of the Las Vegas metropolitan area. The proposed repository was within Yucca Mountain, a ridge line in the south-central part of Nevada near its border with California.

Although the location has been highly contested by both environmentalists and non-local residents in Las Vegas, which is over 100 miles (160 km) away, it was approved in 2002 by the United States Congress. However, under the Obama Administration[2] funding for development of Yucca Mountain waste site was terminated effective with the 2011 federal budget passed by Congress on April 14, 2011. The US GAO stated that the closure was for political, not technical or safety reasons.[2] This leaves United States civilians without any long term storage site for high level radioactive waste, currently stored on-site at various nuclear facilities around the country, although the United States government can dispose of its waste at WIPP, in rooms 2,150 feet (660 m) underground.[3] The Department of Energy is reviewing other options for a high level waste repository.

en.wikipedia.org...

There is no good place to put it. You would think - why create a mess in which you have no means of disposing of the waste then?

Oh yeah, I just thought of something..... Someone mentioned geiger counting seafood, my uncle works at a fish factory, I brought mine there a few times when visiting him, nothing out of the ordinary. Lobster season this summer I plan on scanning the lobsters off my boy's boat before I buy any

reply to post by Afterthought


online.wsj.com...

www.nature.com...

www.japantoday.com...

Apparently there may be continuing problems inside the core of reactor 2. But my point is, there's is little to no threat of radiation releases CURRENTLY from the Fukushima site, and particularly, from the reactor cores.

It's the spent fuel that leads many experts to believe we're only at the beginning of this crisis.

I'm just curious. If you want to do more extensive testing, such as radiation in your most sick son, the one with the trots all the time and headaches, and grounds/property/car, (and of course we are very tight for money), how much would the tests cost? Where would you get them done?

Because I think a case where it can really be proved and brought out would force the governments and medical team to come out with the truth and start acting proper stewards, for they are paid to do the best thing by their employer group, us.

reply to post by Drew99GT


OK, but what about all the isotopes that have leaked into the ocean?
Where does most of our rain originate from?
Where do those jet streams and ocean currents flow again?

I think we need to examine the entire picture or we'll fall victim to tunnel vision.

I don't consider this issue impossible. First of all, we need to make certain the people who are paid to manage are exposed and start to act, plus we need to replace them.

This needs huge public attention.

The 3 meltdowns need to be dealt with by digging underground and using boron and cement, duh!!!! And its never too late to start.

Then develop more tech.

Or they just bring out the buried treasures of real technology and neutralize the whole thing as Tom Bearden has already said they can do, its a frequency thing, they need apply reverse SINE waves and do some detox of the water ocean. I have a thread on that.

That one reactor needs to have the fuel rods lifted out of there and disposed of even if they need to use bots, and all the leaders of the world need to contribute to the project, so do all the leading corporations.

In addition, the radiation poisoning, even from plutonium can also be dealt with by reverse SINE, and detox, idodine, and other things that work, in additon really healthy diet, and substances known to kill tumors 65%, there are tons of solutions. There have been workers who should be dead who have lived a long time, with the right treatments and nutrition.

So I suggest we start to act.