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The Pineapple and the Hare. Simple reading comprehension question BAFFLES NY educators.

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posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


if they were simply annoyed they would have just smashed it. They ate it because they were hungry.

here is another that was on one of kids exams:

There is a band leader and 100 other band members. If the band members lined up in rows of 10 how many rows would they have in all?


Why waste a good fruit by smashing it though?


To answer this other question that on the test, the answer would be 11. There are 101 band members. One of them is the leader, but is still a member, implied by the word "other". If "other" was missing, it would imply the leader was not a "member", and would not line up with them. 10 rows of 10, and 1 row of 1, is 11.

Thats how I see that, anyway. If Im wrong, Ill blame the test writers lack of clarity




posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


if they were simply annoyed they would have just smashed it. They ate it because they were hungry.

here is another that was on one of kids exams:

There is a band leader and 100 other band members. If the band members lined up in rows of 10 how many rows would they have in all?


Why waste a good fruit by smashing it though?


To answer this other question that on the test, the answer would be 11. There are 101 band members. One of them is the leader, but is still a member, implied by the word "other". If "other" was missing, it would imply the leader was not a "member", and would not line up with them. 10 rows of 10, and 1 row of 1, is 11.

Thats how I see that, anyway. If Im wrong, Ill blame the test writers lack of clarity


Why eat if you aren't hungry?

Glad you caught it, most aren't able. Teacher insists to this day that the correct answer is 10. I also pointed out the word 'other" but it just never seemed to sync for him. To make matters worse the test was actually two test stapled together. Same wording on each but with different numerical values. So my kid gets it wrong twice. They say the questions are written like this to prepare them for the tricky questions on the FCAT. Not really sure how coming to false conclusions helps anyone.prepare for anything except for failure. It is kind of how they are expected to learn the definitions of words through their usage in a passage. Hint to teachers - they can't do it very well at all.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by sirhumperdink
reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


except we all know what a pineapple is and that they cant move.... it would be more than safe to assume it cant unless the story specifically says otherwise
they make it a point that it cant move by saying it hasnt moved by the end of the race.... and that the other animals eat it (not mentioning any attempt at escape on the part of the pineapple)
the rabbit knew it could win yes but it was tricked into running a race against a PINEAPPLE
the owl however knew the pineapple had no tricks and that there could be no race ...the rabbit would just be running by itself

any pretense of realism went out the door when a talking pineapple challenged the hare to a race while the other animals began betting on the sidelines. the question author says


I forgot to mention, fruits and vegetables were able to speak too

it seems there are quite a few things he forgot to mention. gazelles run, yet lions still eat them.

the ONLY thing the owl EVER says is "Pineapples don't have sleeves", so your argument that the owl knew is wrong.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
To address some other comments all at once. In a reading comprehension test, you cannot make assumptions like "wise owl." You have to go by only what is in the text. The hare didn't speak anything important other than to accept the challenge. The moose ended up being wrong about the trick, so by process of elimination the owl spoke the wisest words. The words were true, and they ended up being repeated as the moral of the story. Of course it was the owl.

I was more concerned that the questions were worded so simplistically? Are they afraid to use an important vocabulary word like "chronological?" I had to re-read that question twice because it was dumbed down so far.

I agree with others, there are wonderful works of prose out there, with accepted scholarly opinion, why would they write something from scratch? Why not expose the kids to some classic literature?


edit on 24-4-2012 by JailTales because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:03 AM
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Odd that a small number of you are claiming the test was "easy" and "obvious" if critical thinking is used, considering the guy that wrote this story has quite clearly said it's nonsensical rubbish...

There's no context to tell us why the animals ate the pineapple, and the part about which animal is the smartest is ridiculous because the answer is subjective. Here's a few key pointers from the author...going on the interview it seems this isn't the first time his nonsensical story with no real "purpose" has been used in these sorts of tests -

"Eighth-graders who thought a passage about a pineapple and a hare on New York state tests this week made no sense, take heart: The author thinks it's absurd too. It’s hilarious on the face of it that anybody creating a test would use a passage of mine, because I’m an advocate of nonsense""

"When kids are confronted with questions about the modified version of your passage, there seems to be no particular answer. Yet all answers can be correct. Does that actually fit your message? That’s exactly right — and I must interject that I admire the job they did, because it makes even less sense than mine. If the test company, when you get around to them, can gather their wits together sufficiently to make a case for, “We don’t count that against the kid’s grade, we put that there as a sort of brain teaser to show them that not everything is quantifiable"

"Could you answer the test questions? Of course not. This is an exercise in Zen. This is like when the Zen master says, “Can you hear the sound of one-hand clapping?” And if you don’t answer fast enough, he whacks you with a stick. And from this you’re supposed to get enlightened."



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by LordGoofus
 


you most definitely can clap with one hand... unless you have stubs of fingers

but the spirit of that question is clear... the answer is no you can not hear one hand clapping
and being smacked with the stick is for over thinking the matter perceiving some kind of trick where there is none
this is a terrible example but i do understand what you mean and i disagree
even if i didnt this brings up issues of oversight into these matters of utmost importance

what did the answer key give as the answers to these questions?

edit: i really can not explain why i try anymore
maybe its because i know there are some people out there who really try (that includes posters on ats and some in this thread....same opinion or not we are of like minds... you all know who you are)
but upon reading some responses i feel like the cause is lost.... that humanity has lost .... to itself

this may not be the place or time but there is none
whatever the future may bring it is because we as a whole deserve it and have brought it upon ourselves
edit on 24-4-2012 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


I'm not sure I want to know what the "correct" answers are according to Pearsons, it'd probably make my head implode at the silliness of it all



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:22 AM
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I love pineapple.... story was lame. But pineapple sounds gooood right now.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by antonia


Which animal spoke the wisest words?

A The hare

B The moose

C The crow

D The owl


It's the owl


It's always the Owl that the wisest eh? Just because he knew how many licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop I reckon? That Smacks of Owl Superiority to me.

And people wonder why our education system is a mess.


I can't agree more~!! WOW~!! Just because an owl states the obvious doesn't make one wise~! But, I guess the moose is just a nobody.. poor moose
they never get any love, with their big horns and all LOL

and the moral of the story is.....LMAO .. I'm not even sure I want to go there right now ..



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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ok, if you read the original story you understand why all the animals eat the pineapple err eggplant. they all bet heaps of money on it to win, so they all lost, so they eat it cos they were # off at it, i guess the. wisest was the rabbit err hare cos it would have bet on it self.
the problem is the test company screwed the whole story. I love the original. fantastic read



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by grey580
Each and every principal and teacher needs to be fired from their job.
Really? Not sure what the answers were?





Teachers, principals and parents contacted by The News said they weren’t sure what the answers were.


Oddly enough this weekend I was talking to my father in law who's from Equador.
He was telling me that in Equador he was taking Calculus when he was in school.
Before he got to high school.

As a country we are so screwed.


think that's bad.. the Chinese high schoolers go to high school 14hours a day and go home on weekends.. yes, we had an exchange student over for a month ..
so they prolly have a Associates by the time they grad from HS..

yea.. we're totally screwed.... *pointing fingers at so many lvl's @ US gov !*



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by antonia
I found an interview with the author of the passage
blogs.wsj.com...
He says that there are no answers.


This makes sense, because when I read the test, I thought about how if it was given to me as a kid, I would have written an essay on how all the answer could be used, or none of them at all.

I used to do that...

Surprisingly, my grades were crap. Until I got interested in girls, then I was honor roll, but I think that is just because I was distracted from arguing with stupid teachers...



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


if they were simply annoyed they would have just smashed it. They ate it because they were hungry.

here is another that was on one of kids exams:

There is a band leader and 100 other band members. If the band members lined up in rows of 10 how many rows would they have in all?


Why waste a good fruit by smashing it though?


To answer this other question that on the test, the answer would be 11. There are 101 band members. One of them is the leader, but is still a member, implied by the word "other". If "other" was missing, it would imply the leader was not a "member", and would not line up with them. 10 rows of 10, and 1 row of 1, is 11.

Thats how I see that, anyway. If Im wrong, Ill blame the test writers lack of clarity


Actually, the band members question CAN'T be answered. It implies via the word "other" that there are 101 band members. You cannot line 101 people up in rows of 10. There will always be someone left over.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by mwood
Does nobody have an imagination anymore? What is so hard to follow about the story?
Sure it's silly and imaginative but I don't see why people couldn't read it and answer the questions the best they felt they could.

you make a cartoon about a sponge that lives under the sea in a pineapple and has a snail for a pet and a squid for a friend and THAT people understand......

All these ridiculous reality shows people understand...........

I think as time goes on people are just getting stupidyier (I know that's not a word, just trying to fit in)



took the words str8 out of my mouth~!

and that's what missing these days, stright forward answers based upon previous knowledge, 'calls it, likes ya sees it~!"

LOL.. the very reason they have a umpire in baseball.. argue if you want, but, his call is strigh forward...because he called it like he saw it. and I still keep laughing over some of the members responces on the owl being the smartest & the moral of the story (although there could be 2) LOL



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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i dont think this is a dumb question at all...

i can recall reading an exam study guide for the Colorado GED...
in which the read/Comp chapter had a similar nonsensical question about youths entry into adulthood by
caring for the RAC...

it was written to identify the RAC as an animal, however its relation to the real world
is that it was actually a CAR...

damn good question, and had a lot of thought behind it



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by Sly1one
It made no sense up till the questions.

The questions are easily answerable. The point is to answer the questions not analyze the logical practicality of the "story". They aren't looking for logical or rational explanations of the absurd...

All the questions are easily answerable if you stick to answering the questions and refrain from adding assumptions to what the story "means"...the story doesn't MEAN anything...the story isn't meant to be deconstructed to find meaning or value...its meant to test someones ability to answer the questions by identifying irrelevant information and identifying it as such, discarding it and answering the question without adding assumptions regardless of whether or not they are logical or rational.

I totally understand where they were going with this question and the intent they had behind it.

The debatable part from my stand point is whether or not its appropriate for that age/grade group.


Before reaching page 5, I was going to say something similar. I agree with these thoughts in this post and those following.

I think most of the objections people have over this story are insignificant. The story is a story to test reading comprehension, NOT a story meant to be contrasted with so called "real" life, with the goal to be the pointing out of inconsistency, nor a story meant for the individual to personally interpret.

The prime example being, of course, the question on whose the wisest. Who the individual personally perceives to be the wisest is not relevant, which I think is a severe hang up for most people here, and elsewhere (the problem is separating the contextually objective, from the subjective opinion, which Ive noticed throughout my life is a problem for most people). The question is practically answered for the individual in the final line of the story. Morals of stories are impartments of wisdom, thus the one who most closely reinforced that moral in the story was the most wise IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY AND QUESTION, which is the only thing that is relevant.

But since everyone seems to be adding their own take on who was the wisest, Ill add mine. It was the pineapple, because the pineapple, IMO, successfully played everyone else for a fool.

Honestly within the context of the story, the questions to me are easily and logically answerable.
edit on 4/23/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)
edit on 4/23/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


I don't see how the pineapple was the wisest as the end result of him playing everyone for a fool resulted in him being eaten.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Headshot
No syntax problem. The general rule is that if you were to take out the "you" would the sentence be proper saying "I" or "Me" and leave it as such.



The far more correct answer is that the "rule" you're trying to follow was just something that Robert Lowth made up off the top of his head in the 1760's because he wished that English was more like Latin.

Back in realityland, English has never had this "rule" in the past, present, and still will not do in the future no matter how many schoolteachers try to teach it to kids.
There's a reason this "rule" doesnt stick in childrens heads - it really doesnt exist except in grammar textbooks.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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The problem with this story, as with many reading passages used on standardized tests, is simply thus: there is no right or wrong answer.

At least two answer choice can be argued successfully. So the entire question is invalid; it becomes an opinion. What is the BEST answer? Well, the state's best answer isn't necessarily the same as someone else's best answer.

I hate the standardized tests. It doesn't measure critical thinking skills, creativity, problem solving, or any of the other so-called learning skills.

For example. I live in a very rural area. On our Standardized Test last year one of the questions referred to a subway. Now the question meant the underground train system....but we don't have anything like that here. Most of my kids thought subway was a sandwich. See the problem?

A far better way to measure student success is through the use of year-long portfolios. HAve the student demonstrate their problem solving skills throughout the year. This is far more accurate than a standardized test, and gets rid of a lot of test anxiety as well.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


because real world problems never involve stress
this is obviously the best method
and i do see the problem ....the problem is kids are associating a subway with a sandwich rather than an underground railway regardless of weather or not there are any in the area its absolutely ridiculous that they hadnt at least been exposed to the idea subways are a big deal in other areas of the world and instead jumped to fast food chain as the answer... and if you dont see the problem in THAT i dont know what im doing typing all this



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by sirhumperdink
its absolutely ridiculous that they hadnt at least been exposed to the idea subways are a big deal in other areas of the world



But it depends on the context of the question.
eg. Which is bigger, a house or a subway?

eg. A man goes looking through his expense accounts at the end of the year and sees an item marked "SUBWAY - $7.00". Should this go into category (a) or (b). (Categories defined earlier).






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