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The Origins of the King James Bible and the New Testament, and the Forgery, and Pagan influences in

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posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 11:39 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

Programs about Shakespeare not actually writing anything and that he was just the front man for someone else have been on the British tele many times – its considered common knowledge

posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 11:42 PM
reply to post by NOTurTypical

You haven't even explored the first 3, that is what your religion is designed for, to make sure you have alot of fears, Unknowns, and a lifestyle of "being under" and subservient.

It gives you just enough to have a taste, make a choice, and more than likely never experience even 20% of the 4th density alone, at the HIGHEST levels of what you call, the Holy Spirit.

Try taking a REAL journey, ask yourSELF for the answers, and you will have your head ripped off, you could never sit in a church again, for fear of annihilating them with your thoughts alone.

We will be here, waiting when the Kundalini you don't even recognize reveals a whole lot more than you can handle, BECAUSE of your beliefs,, you will be extremely lucky to survive,, and that is what really bothers me about Christianity, it is a horrible measure of Limiting...all the while pretending to be "The Way".

The True Shining Ones will be feared as Satan himself, too bad, cause the Choice will be yours....

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 12:05 AM
reply to post by NOTurTypical

What's with you and dimensions? You don't expound from what I've read. You attempt to tie your nonsense to Einstein. He botched his own theory with time/ space. Time exists as an assembly/ reassembly rate (perpetual present tense). As for space... We are framed as 3D, stacked by 2D, spinning off points/ images via an overlay to energy/ consciousness. Call it 4D, if you wish. There are no other dimensions... Only myriad derivatives within the same model.

Quantum "Choice"

edit on 24-4-2012 by Americanist because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 12:37 AM
reply to post by autowrench

There is no proof to what you have said, I could say I see the easter bunny every night it is just as valid as to what you say you have seen.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Starchild23

What we need to do now, is focus on spirit. If we do not focus on spirit, we will forget that which is important, and we will destroy ourselves.

care to back up any of this drivel with facts?

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 01:07 AM

Originally posted by autowrench

Do you really want to know? Remember, once known, never forgotten. Do as I did, make the Bible a research project, look up the words in Hebrew and Greek to see what they mean,

only a scholar who ahs spent a lifetime in the interpolation of these languages and their translations would have any credibility in such an exercise.

you my freind do not have not and are not such a scholar.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 01:13 AM

Originally posted by autowrench
. If Francis Bacon could author the entire works of Shakespeare,

you do realize that you are now officially by your own hand kaput through of no interest kookiefied by this statement of complete delusionality?

no..prolly not.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 04:43 AM
Ahhh, such a wasted thread. What's the whole point?

Christianity is false, filled with lies? The Bible is a corrupt, evil book, used by evil men, to do evil things? All Christians are Pagans and they don't even realize it?

Okay, you know what. I'll bite. Let's say everything you posted is real.


What's the catch? What's the "secret plan"? What's it ALL about? WHY EVEN BOTHER?

The WHOLE point of Christianity, the Bible, is this - I'll lay it out in one single paragraph -

Man is destined for Hell. God doesn't want that. God came down in the Flesh, died on the Cross, and forgave the World of ALL of their Sins. That's it. You don't even have to believe in God to be forgiven, you already are, everyone is, unless they have the one unforgivable Sin - not believing in Christ. All they have to do is say, "Okay, there is a God. I believe it. I believe in Christ and everything he did."

Then they're born-again. They're going to Heaven, if they meant it.


What's the whole point of using a book for evil, if all you have to do is believe in Jesus? Money? Power? Uhh, well obviously that wouldn't work when it's CLEARLY WRITTEN on how to get to Heaven.

Someone, please. Explain this to me. And while you're at it, explain to me why you have such a hard to grasping such a simple concept. Believe in Jesus, go to Heaven. That's it. 6 words. Nothing more. There's no, "and then after, give your money to your Church."

No, THAT'S IT - BELIEVING IN JESUS. The Thief on the Cross is the prime example of this. All he did was show his faith in Jesus, by asking him to remember him when he came into his Kingdom, and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him on that very day.
edit on 24-4-2012 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 05:41 AM
i applaud you friend for your efforts and research!!! good on ya

i don't have the time to read all of your post now,but what i have skimmed thru,i like and i will definately read it all later on.i am familiar with a lot of what i red so far,so my interest is peaked.
unfortunately you will no doubt have a few christian debunkers who will try to disclaim this.
but as for me,i follow the teachings of jesus(among other teachers) and not the myth of the son of god!

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:22 AM
I like Joseph Atwill’s idea

Basically – the roman general Vespasian and his son Titus where sent to Judea to put down a Jewish revolt – it’s possible he was chosen because he had just destroyed the druid religion in Britain

Atwell points out stuff like:
Titus campaign closely follows Jesus’ alleged ministry, for example Titus’s first act was to attack the Jewish fishing fleet on the shores of Galilee and his troops where pulling Jewish fishermen out the sea – in other words his troops followed him and became fishers of men

Or that the gospel account of Jesus’ empty tomb is actually a roman intelligence test or a comedy and the text should be read together starting with John, then Matthew, then Mark and finally Luke to really see what’s happening

If Atwell is right then
Vespasian = bible god
And Titus = Jesus

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:32 AM
reply to post by Americanist

Physics fail. The 4th dimension is called "spacetime". and the other 7 we know about vibrate in "strings" smaller than a particle of light therefore can only be inferred by indirect means.

"After all this LHC excitation, I am afraid i could go into hibernation for some period, but I want to say some words about this 313 GeV thing and how, to my regret, it could relate to extra dimensions. The point is that if we want quarks and leptons to stand in some symmetry group, the smaller candidate is SU(4), "Lepton number as the fourth color". The full group Pati Salam thing, SU(4)xSU(2)xS(2), is known to appear with 8 extra dimensions: it is the group of isometries of the manifold S5xS3, the product of the three-sphere with the five-sphere. It was argued by Bailin and Love that 8 extra dimensions are needed to get the charge assignmens of the standard model, but I am not sure if this manifold was used. Its role was stressed by Witten, who pointed out that the family of 7-dimensional manifolds that you get by quotienting this one via an U(1) action have the isometry group SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1).'

"Kaluza-Klein Theories in Twelve Dimensions" Bailin, David; Love, Alex. Nuclear Physics B, Volume 254, p. 543-554.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:34 AM
reply to post by GrinchNoMore

You haven't even explored the first 3,

Correction, the first 4. Google: "Gravitational Time Dilation". It shows spacetime (4D) is a physical property and is not uniform.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:49 AM

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by autowrench

There is no proof to what you have said, I could say I see the easter bunny every night it is just as valid as to what you say you have seen.

Guitarplayer, no sense in arguing over this one as it is VERY REAL to those who have experienced the Spirit. Once this happens, there is no turning back or unbelief. Have you ever had anything extraordinary happen to you, but ended up brushing it off as some kind of coincidence? Sometimes the Spirit works in subtle ways and sometimes there's nothing subtle about it. That's usually when people realize what they've experienced.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:16 AM
I'd like to see more of the history aspect of this thread built-upon, and not Christians flocking here to tell us they are Christians. It is a meme that has mandated-duplication built into it. So, more history! Thanks.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:29 AM
reply to post by autowrench

You know although i like a good conspiracy, what you have presented here is to an extend laughable. Although, criticism is a good thing, you have to draw a line on to what is probable or not. Every theme, that you presented, deserves a thread on it´s own, in order to properly discuss these themes. By that said, i will touch only briefly to some of your themes.

Of all the books in the King James Bible, there isn't one handwritten original that is knwon to exist. We don't even have the first copies of the originals, what we do have, is copies of copies of copies of copies, and what people remember who read the texts. The writers in Ancient Times had a looser standard for accuracy in their writings, or copying texts. Sometimes they wrote in other, more famous authors' names. They would add, subtract, alter, or outright remove "historical" events/place names/dates in the texts as they, or their Masters saw fit. Sometimes, blatant fiction was mixed together with truth, (Mishmash) and some of the scribes wrote texts in the name of Church enemies, to discredit the writer entirely. Then the forged text could be used against them in later times, if need be. This in itself speaks of a hidden agenda.

There is no hidden agenda with the manuscripts. What you are referring to is called "Manuscript-Corruption" that are produced and copied down to later manuscripts. Here is an illustration :
which concludes

With this type of method the New Testament documents can be reconstructed with an incredible accuracy. Furthermore, the New Testament is approximately 99.5% textually pure. This means that of all the manuscripts in existence, they agree completely 99.5% of the time. Of the variants that occur, most are easily explainable and very few have any effect on the meaning of passages. In all, no New Testament doctrine is affected by any variant reading.

So, the New Testament is extremely reliable and can be trusted without hesitation.

Illustration of Bible text manuscript tree and variant readings

The Q-Document, it is called "Hypothetical-Document", because there is no proof that the document existed. Further, if that document actually existed, then will only validate the New Testament :

If anything, the existence of Q would mean that the time between the actual events and their written record is lessened. In other words, Q would have to precede Matthew and Luke. This would mean that there is a source even earlier than the those gospels which only adds to the validity of the accuracy of the gospels since it shortens the time between the event and the record

What is the gospel of Q and does it prove the Gospels are false?

The Piso Theory.

I think Klassified, has made recently a thread, concerning the Piso theory. As i a have stated before the claim that, the New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso (pronounced Peso w/ long "E") family (a), who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in it--Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples, apostles, Paul, and John the Baptist--are all fictional, is laughable at best. In other words:

There's been a lively run of this on the sci.classics newsgroup. The short form of this is that the Piso family is responsible for all secular and sacred Greco-Roman-Christian history, all part of a vast goof performed by them on unsuspecting modern scholars. It reads like a huge collaborative parody of Leo Strauss composed by Borges, Nabokov, and Eco, all under the influence of something they got from Hunter Thompson.

On the Piso Theory

Dating the Gospels
The fact only that none of the gospels mentioned, the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 AD, would suffice to prove that the gospels were written prior to 70 AD. But in all honesty

Though there is still some debate on the dates of when the gospels were written, they were most assuredly completed before the close of the first century and written by eyewitnesses or under the direction of eyewitnesses.

When where the Gospels writen and by whom

(Continued on next post)

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:29 AM
reply to post by autowrench

(Continued from above)

Here is a second source which concludes:

Though this information is basic, it supplies enough evidence to support the apostolic authorship of the New Testament documents. The debate on the dating of the books may never be absolutely settled, but as scholarship and archaeology advance, confirmation of early authorship of the New Testament continues to be validated.

Wasn´t the New Testamnent written Hundreds of years after Christ ?

Mthraism (Part of the Copy-cat theory).

I will leave it to these two sources.

That ends our listing, and thus our conclusion: In not one instance has a convincing case been made that Christianity borrowed anything from Mithraism. The evidence is either too late, not in line with the conclusions of modern Mithraic scholars, or just plain not there.

Mithraism: Not an Influence on Christianity

And the second Source which concludes :

Therefore, even though there are similarities between Christianity and Mithraism, it is up to the critics to prove that one borrowed from the other. But, considering that the writers of the New Testament were Jews who shunned pagan philosophies and that the Old Testament has all of the themes found in Christianity, it is far more probable that if any borrowing was done, it was done by the pagan religions that wanted to emulate the success of Christianity.

Doesn´t the religion of Mithra proves that Christianity is false ?


posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 08:42 AM
reply to post by Lionhearte

Ahhh, such a wasted thread. What's the whole point?

On that particular note, what is the point of discussing anything? So that we can learn from each other. So that old, and new information will be available for anyone who wishes to learn.

Christianity is false, filled with lies? The Bible is a corrupt, evil book, used by evil men, to do evil things? All Christians are Pagans and they don't even realize it?

Don't remember saying that, friend. All I did say if the famous books of Christianity are part of a sinister agenda, the same books used to damn everyone but them to some place they call Hell, and to try to convert everyone into this little cult mentality so they will give up their human will and money to the group...and for what? Peer acceptance? To live on planet Earth you don't need a guidebook! Life, for the most part, is self realizing and self explanatory.

Christianity in it's present form breeds HATE, all over the world. I have come to believe that is what Christians want too, they want to be the most hated, ridiculed, and persecuted people on the planet.
And for what reasoning? Why is it some need a being bigger than they are? Better than they are? Isn't is human destiny to perfect ourselves, after all, instead of perfecting a being who lived 2000 years ago that we know nothing about?

The point here is, as Human Beings, we do not even realize how alone we feel, and how little we are in the big scope of things. The only Evil is the Evil that lives in the hearts of human beings, and the Battle between Good and Evil is fought within each one of us on a daily basis. We have each other to lean on, and we could all do that, if not for those infernal questions all the time.
"Are you a Christian"?
"Do you believe in Jesus"?
"Do you know the Lord"?
These are the standards. Last week a woman came to my door for some repairs to her computer. As soon as she walked in, the questions began. "What Church do you attend"? When I informed her that we are Wiccans, and our Church is wherever we are at any given time, she got really mad, and then told me she would rather pay Double to a Church goer to fix her machine, rather than paying a "Satanist" like me. I could see the hate in her eyes and her face. This is the hate I am talking about. Where does all this come from? I know it is not in the Bible, but Christians are learning to hate people from some source! I think it prudent to examine one's own self, before damning another to their own version of the Afterlife.
All I did here is show the authorship of the book, and who did the editing, nothing more, or less. The conclusions are yours to bear.

Man is destined for Hell. God doesn't want that. God came down in the Flesh, died on the Cross, and forgave the World of ALL of their Sins.

Get that from the book, did you? I know of no other publication that damns everyone to Hell, friend. Why would a Creator/Creatoress make all of this for us, and them make all of us, give us a few thousand years to learn, and live, and then turn around and damn them all? That is not logical, nor does it make any sense. Humankind, not just Man, (another gripe I have about Christianity) does have a Destiny. It is Not to, as you so aptly say, "Go to Hell". Where do you get these ideas from? I know you didn't come up with that on your own, someone pounded it into your head, didn't they?
I remember when "good meaning" people attempted to mind control me with this rhetoric. I remember when I told my Mother that I was seeing Ghosts of dead people in our woods, and that they were my playmates. She freaked out. For three days, how August days, a preacher, deacon, and two church ladies prayed over me in a Christian attempt to exorcise the "demons" they said were in me. I will never forget how they smelled! I still see the dead, as does many people, and I am the way I am not because of a religion, but because this is how I created my life, and myself. Just like everyone else does.

Then they're born-again. They're going to Heaven, if they meant it.

I am also born again. And again, and again. Thousands of times over. Thousands of lifetimes spent and lived. As for "Heaven", that is only ONE scenario of the Afterlife, friend.
I have been shown my own Afterlife, and I believe it is way more desirable that the description given in Revelation 12.
I trust I have explained myself? I cannot "believe in" a being based on faith alone. I have no desire to go to the Christian Heaven, or the Christian Hell, where I expect many Christians will suddenly find themselves, when the time comes for them to judge themselves.
I do not need a book to live my life, I do not need a being lording over me all the time. And I don't need to be saved from anything.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 08:56 AM
reply to post by Seed76

I too love a good conspiracy! On the Piso Theory alone, there is a lot of evidence that Arrius Calpurnius Piso was a real man, a Roman General, and the authors of the Gospels are lost in time, the only evidence is second or third hand information, written hundreds of years after the fact.

"Twelve Good Men and True"?

The fact is that for seven of the twelve, our only early source, the Gospels, say nothing about them at all. They are just names on a list.

Isn't it a tad odd that such worthies, infused with the Holy Spirit and given powers to heal the sick and cast out demons, wrote nothing, or had nothing written for them or about them? Isn't it odd that men chosen to be eye-witnesses to the mighty deeds of Jesus, wrote no eye-witness statements, left no sermons, no memoirs, no letters, no teachings, no pithy words of encouragement?

All that we have about "the twelve" are conflicting legends and fantastic stories from a much later date, tall stories about where they went, what they did and most especially how they died. Their deaths, it seems, have been recorded in loving and lurid detail. And it is the graphic deaths of the disciples that solves the riddle. We've all heard the apologetic claim: "Would they have died for a lie? Therefore the story of Jesus must be true."

But we all know how useful to a cause is a dead martyr, even if he's a fiction. In the case of Jesus, the twelve are a fiction, a necessary entourage for a sun god, passing through the twelve constellations of the zodiac. Just like other saviour gods, Jesus had to have his retinue.

The truth is, the twelve disciples are a grubby and sordid invention.

The "12 Apostles" never existed

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Aleister
I'd like to see more of the history aspect of this thread built-upon, and not Christians flocking here to tell us they are Christians. It is a meme that has mandated-duplication built into it. So, more history! Thanks.

I was invited here by op. He knew what I bring to the poker table. He knew when he sent me that u2u.

posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Aleister
I'd like to see more of the history aspect of this thread built-upon, and not Christians flocking here to tell us they are Christians. It is a meme that has mandated-duplication built into it. So, more history! Thanks.

I myself will be more than happy to discuss the historical aspects of this, anytime. Sadly, all you are EVER going to get from Christians is their own slant on their own beliefs and not a thing else. After all, to most of them, the Entire Universe is very young, so it must not be prudent to study on any history, after all, Bible men seem to remember exact words after 400 years. I guess when you become a Christian, your memory of historical events is magnified exponentially.
Because of this thread, I have already gotten a bunch of hate mail, but hey....I knew that was coming. I haven't seen one of them offer any refute as yet.

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