Sun appears to be in different position in the sky

Interesting observations. I know that irrespective of your location on the Earth, the Sun will rise due East and set due West on the precise days of the Vernal (Spring) and Autumnal (Fall) Equinoxes. Additionally, for us in the Northern hemisphere, the Summer should have the Sun doing its thing North of due East and West. While in the Winter the opposite is true. I didn't know about the Canadian scientist being kept silent...very curious.

ESV

Originally posted by dainoyfb
If you actually took a bit of time to learn about the very environment that shapes your life before making a post like this then you would realize how absolutely ludicrious this is.

Thousands of astronomers around the planet would be instantly in a frenzy, planetarium software would no longer be accurate, the solar observation probes would no longer be pointing at the sun, etc, etc, etc.

This is not something that would go unnoticed by everyone except you. Get a grip. Do your research before posting so you don't get ripped apart on here and so you don't make the rest of us on ATS look like loonies.

dainoyfb, thank you for your concern. I think I can handle the criticism.

I agree that under the circumstance, the idea that the Sun's position changing drastically would be an event that would not go unnoticed. Frankly, I'd say that it is a ridiculous notion rather than ludicrous but, to each their own. I am merely attempting to inquire if others, within the aforementioned time frame had experienced/perceived something similar to my wife and I.

Honestly, it would seem to me that it is not me but you who needs to get a grip on reality. I don't really care what people think of me and any ideas I have, farfetched or otherwise. As far as doing my research, I think that research is great when trying to prove something is true or untrue. I'm trying to do neither. I am assessing my perspective as it relates to others within my sphere of existence.

Surely you can see that now.

ESV

Really, OP? You come here & post THIS, and expect others to be the ones to get a grip? Here, I'll give you a 3rd grade science refresher, though I'm sure you're probably familiar with it by now. The sun moves along the horizon year-round, gradually climbing high & further northward in the summer, then declining lower & further southward in the winter. Google "analemma" to see compilation photos of this steady climb & decline. It's done this since time immemorial, it's a pretty consistent pattern. Even the ancients knew about it.

*shakes head* This thread is almost as bad as this poor fool

reply to post by ExScientiaVeritas


Some days there is less cloud cover and the sun appears to be very bright. I have to wear sunglasses most of the time anyway due to my blue eyes being very sensitive, my migraines, and I work nights. All in all what you describe does not seem to be anything other than your perceptions being off, happens to everyone.

Originally posted by KaelemJames

Nice photos, and a good example...

I still don't get why so many people don't get how the sun moves differently across the sky depending on the month and time of day.

But I guess every time someone turns 15 and starts wondering about life, they see weird things all over the place.

The sun is fine... everything has been accounted for. Now start wondering aboout something else or you'll get wrinkles around your eyes at an early age after squinting so much from checking out the position of the sun.

Originally posted by Nyiah
Really, OP? You come here & post THIS, and expect others to be the ones to get a grip? Here, I'll give you a 3rd grade science refresher, though I'm sure you're probably familiar with it by now. The sun moves along the horizon year-round, gradually climbing high & further northward in the summer, then declining lower & further southward in the winter. Google "analemma" to see compilation photos of this steady climb & decline. It's done this since time immemorial, it's a pretty consistent pattern. Even the ancients knew about it.

*shakes head* This thread is almost as bad as this poor fool

edit on 4/23/2012 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)

Thanks Nyiah for the good laugh! There is ignorance in the world and you just displayed it...twice!

The first was when you didn't fully read the whopping 1 1/2 pages of thread to understand the context of my statements and queries. The second was the video you used as an example of how bad my OP is. There's a saying that you may be familiar with, that goes something like you are the pot calling the kettle black.

I implore you, please read the previous post before attempting to belittle someone. You only made yourself look foolish.

ESV

I am still very new at composing a post that is fool proof and I am clearly drawing in those who have a need to put down or disparage people who have conflicting opinions or ideas. So, allow me to add something to hopefully clarify my intentions here.

I am not asking why the Sun is in a different position than it has historically been. I believe that the Sun's position is relatively constant in our sky and does not warrant any real concerns. I am however, asking if anyone has had an experience like mine where when you weren't looking for it, you found that something SEEMED different AND someone else corroborated that observation independent of your own. With the temperature feeling as if it is more intense (likely unrelated), one cannot help wonder what it is that has brought these observations into some alignment within the short time in which I experienced them.

I've received a handful of responses thus far, that help sort out that question. The rest have been poor attempts at belittling me by suggesting that I'm something I'm not. I find this all too often on this forum and I'm sure it won't stop anytime soon as this is human nature at it's "finest". That does not mean I'll let such attempts slide by. I give as good (if not better) as I get.

Keep it civil, ask questions, and if you can't contribute constructively then what you say will only serve to expose the kind of person you really are. In the end, thanks for your thoughts!

ESV

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

I am inclined to take your position on this. I feel it is likely a confluence of my observations and coincidence. Normally, I would let such things go, but when you've done things over and over again, and then one day something jumps out at you as being different somehow, I can't simply just ignore it.

Surely you've had something like that happen that made you scratch you head and say, why does this feel/appear different than it did in times past?

ESV

Originally posted by flice

Originally posted by KaelemJames

I still don't get why so many people don't get how the sun moves differently across the sky depending on the month and time of day.

But I guess every time someone turns 15 and starts wondering about life, they see weird things all over the place.

The sun is fine... everything has been accounted for. Now start wondering aboout something else or you'll get wrinkles around your eyes at an early age after squinting so much from checking out the position of the sun.

Yeah, some people huh?

Adults should be remiss if they don't exhibit the same sense of wonder in the world as our children. That kind of thinking is what makes civilizations stagnate and die. By the way flice, if you're suggesting that I'm the young one who starts to wonder about life then, I can feel good that I'm well on my way to keeping my mind open, still experiencing life and not just moving through it!

Forgive me for being a bit of a cynic but, I don't know you and have no reason to believe you when you say that the Sun is fine and everything has been accounted for. I find your last comment as interesting and somewhat telling. I suspect that you're likely an older individual who may not have children of your own. Perhaps you have doubts about the world we live in as well but, have received ridicule in the past for making such observations yourself. So instead, if you can't have such thoughts then maybe everyone shouldn't either? Then again, you're on this website and are secretly feeding that inner insatiable need to question everything. I'm probably way off on this...getting a little carried away...

ESV

reply to post by ExScientiaVeritas



Unfortunately, it's a pretty well known fact that us human beings make very poor data gathering machines. We are constantly influenced by things (both knowingly and unknowingly). Sometimes our very mood can affect how we see things, or think about them.

For example, one morning you'll get up, see and hear the birds singing. If you are well rested and feel good, you may enjoy what you are seeing and hearing.
However, if you wake up from a restless night, with a hang over or sick, you might very well instead look at those birds and wish you had a shot gun..........

Our brains are easily fooled all the time. We look at "optical illusions" and see things that are not really there, not because there is something wrong with our eyes, but because our brains are having a hard time analyzing the data that the eyes are giving it.

We look at random things, and our brains try very, very hard to put some sort of order or pattern that we recognize in them. We call that Matrixing.

Machines that we build, or in animate objects we use, don't suffer from this. They don't lie (unless we made them to do that). They don't suffer from mood swings, hang overs, or getting sick. They record everything they are made to record, unlike us humans who can drive past the same building every day for 20 years and never notice what color the window shutters are.........

Sun dials, monolithic structures, etc that are used to mark the position of the sun would show any differences that are not suppose to be there (unless they themselves get moved, due to earthquakes, high velocity winds, or little kids who think your sundial is a cool thing to lean on!).

You on the other and (and your wife), were in a moving car, observing something with your eyes. Was the sun always there? Are you 100% sure? Is it recorded somewhere in you?
Could it be that both of you may have thought something was wrong, but only because you might be mis-remembering something?

I would lean to that last part. As to why both you and your wife noticed this independently of each other: is it possible that recently you were both discussing something that involved the sun? The weather? The earth?

I don't know how long you have been married, and I have NO scientific evidence to back up what I'm about to say. But I can tell you now: I've been married so long, that I can tell when my wife is craving chocolate while she's at work.....because suddenly, 20 miles away, I'll suddenly start craving chocolate myself.......and I don't even LIKE chocolate!.

As for the sun feeling hotter:

Again, this might be simply about perception. I've gone outside on days that were 98 deg F, and it wasn't the sun feeling hot on me, but the air. Where as just last week, while it was only 80 deg F outside, the sun's rays felt hot to me.
Today, it's windy....and the suns rays do not feel hot to me at all.

While we do react to temperatures with our skin......we don't record it. Thermometers do that. People will feel different things, depending on them.
A person with a fever will feel cold and even shake from the chills, even though you might be standing next to them in shorts, sweating a lot.
Someone else could be out in the snow, with no coat on, while their friend is bundled up like they are ready to go to the North Pole.

Again, it's really about perception.

reply to post by eriktheawful

Thanks for your considerable thoughts on my post eriktheaweful. I sincerely appreciate that you read the post and responded in such a way as to cause me to think. I recognize that humans are fallible and as such, are subject to error, especially when it comes to how we perceive or remember things. I learned this early on as a child playing the game where a line of children are asked to whisper a phrase to his neighbor, one by one starting with the first in line to the last. What the last child heard and ultimately repeats is often completely off and quite humorous!

As I indicated in a later response, I'm not suggesting that there is something wrong with the Sun's place in our sky. I am ultimately attempting to understand how I came to ponder the Sun's position and its heat, when it is not something that I would usually discuss with any regularity aside from, in polite conversation regarding weather in general. What I've learned so far is that we do experience things in such a way that some days we notice them and others days we don't. All the factors that you've described can and often do influence how we perceive our environment. Furthermore, in an attempt to make sense of things, we'll tend to pull together unrelated events which can bias our perceptions further.

I am of the belief that everything happens for a reason. Whether that is true or not, it is a way to see events in our lives as an opportunity to gain understanding. My observation of the Sun was a good exercise in recognizing the wonder and the faults of our individual perceptions. It was also a reason for me to finally make my first post. To that end, this entire experience has been worthwhile.

ESV

reply to post by ExScientiaVeritas

If it's any consolation, you are not the first person to make either one of those observations on Fragile Earth, and some similar discussions are fairly recent. Backdate and you should be able to find many posts similar to yours in various threads.

As to why these things strike us out of the blue, I don't know. I had a similar experience a several months ago. I was outside and the moon was gloriously full and seemed so large and close to the earth. I just had to get my daughter to show her and I wanted to take a picture of it, too. It took me only a moment to call her out of the house and I already had my iPhone on me to use to snap pics. But to my shock the moon had moved already to a less impressive viewing angle. For the next half hour or so my daughter and I were just shocked at how fast the moon was hauling butt across the sky. I've been on this planet 45 years, have a college degree, and a decent level of serviceable common sense, but that night I was struck by a trait of the good old familiar moon that I personally have never taken note of before.

Quite few months later I saw good old Moony high and full in the sky. I went out to dinner and when I came back, it had barely seemed to move at all from where I'd seen it when I left. That's how I'm used to it moving, honestly. Clearly, I need to study more about the moon! I've taken it quite for granted all these many years, apparently.

Yes indeed there have been a LOT of threads on ATS lately claiming that the moon is in the wrong place, at the wrong angle, that the sun is in the wrong place, wrong angle, has changed color, that the very stars and other planets seem to be in the wrong position.

At first glance, one would think that there is something to these claims since you have so many people speaking up.

But for all the people that are doing so, you have many, many more that are both amateur and proffesional astronomers that are not saying anything, or noticing anything wrong. In fact, most of the people that are posting about these things are not even amateur astronomers.

I think, IMHO, that what we are seeing here are several things that ended up being added together here on ATS.
We have a lot of doom sayers out there and this is 2012, the year that has been in the media and spot light for years now. People are being drenched with how the world is going to end, or civilization is going to end, or the world is going to change. I think that rests in the back of people's minds whether they realize it or not.

Then something happens. They notice something that they THINK they have been paying attention to, but in reality they've only been glancing at. And to them, something looks or seems wrong.

Sort of like when you notice your tongue. We tend to ignore our tongue. But when we really notice it, we suddenly feel that there is this THING in our mouth, and it feels out of place! Even though, no, it actually belong there.

Couple this with the people that suffer from paranoia who will insist that those tens of millions of others that would have said something by now if something where actually wrong, that they are all part of some "conspiracy" (well this IS a conspiracy web site! hehehehe), doesn't help those that might be sitting on the fence, or who may not be very informed about the subject.

But while I would say "Trust me", this is a place where a LOT of paranoid people hang out, so instead I'll just say, that it seems obvious that if something really were wrong, the people that are most informed about these things would be speaking up.

I have tons of sunset photos in my personal archives. All I need to do it take another one at the same time and same location to prove/disprove any sun-drift hunches. I also felt that the sun was stronger than usual, but then again, the weather has been very different than usual, so my frames of reference are different. What about sundials? Surely people have sundials to check, not to mention thousands of years of sun-logging from the ancient times, to modern times. If anything in this world has been documented to death, it's the sun's position versus the calendar.