New age common beliefs and myths: let´s talk about them (maybe demystify some of them)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Can the seer be seen?

The seer can be seen in "others". When the seer is not seen in "others", then it is because your brain and your mind are in disagreement.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Can the seer be seen?

The seer can be seen in "others". When the seer is not seen in "others", then it is because your brain and your mind are in disagreement.

It is you seeing you. So yes, you can see you, but only in "others".

reply to post by Manula


If I may, I'd like to address all of the issues raised in your OP. I've only a little time right now, but I will answer all of them eventually.

Service to self and service to others (law of one)

This is actually a symptom of something I strongly believe in. Evil is absolute service to self. That is my definition of it. Evil will serve no one but itself...this is portrayed by every evil character in existence, whether it be out of fear or ambition or greed. Good always serves everyone else before it serves itself. This is also portrayed by every good character in history. It will give up that which it values most before allowing its friends or family or even the innocent to suffer. Following this, I believe that evil and good are two sides of the same thing. We must serve ourselves, and we must serve others. The point to it is balance. Balance is one of the most important aspects of life, and this service issue actually teaches us it.

Additionally, dividing people into groups of "sinner" and "righteous" is counterproductive when teaching about understanding. Division only brings prejudice. A common cause, as in a lot of people learning different parts of the same thing, will create unity. At least until we are more advanced than Homo Sapiens.

Wanting and wishing causes suffering

This is very true. In fact, I often say that perfection is the absolute lack of desire. The moment you stop wanting, is the moment your life becomes perfect. For example, there are two men. Both are looking at a shack in a swamp. The one man, who loves to hunt frogs and wrestle alligators, takes his whiskey dirty and feels at home among insects (not to mention having mudbogging as his list of skills on the resume), will look at this swamp and think it is perfect. Why? Because he wouldn't add anything else to it.

The other man is a business owner who likes his cars shiny and his eggs sunny side up. He will look at the swamp and be horrified...why? Because he wants lots of things in life. But this swamp isn't one of them.

Of those two men, one found perfection because he didn't want a lot out of life. Thus, wanting and wishing can bring suffering...especially if you have to make sacrifices to fulfill those desires.

We are all one

Yes. I believe this. Consider the Newtonian assertion that matter is neither created nor destroyed. What is matter? Energy. Energy given form. Energy bound to a low enough vibration that it actually takes shape on our vibrational field. And if everything is made up of energy, then we are too. The very same energy, in fact.

This is part of the reason I don't care for the doctrines of Judaism. They make so many assumptions, and many of those assumptions are incorrect. They refuse to agree with anything scientific, especially if it implies that their "God" is anything less than perfect.

But what's our definition of perfect? You already know mine...and I know it differs from person to person. I doubt you'll find a better definition than mine...and if you do, you just proved my definition to be correct. Argue that one.

Existence of higher self (good self) and lower self (bad self);

Tosh. A weak attempt to separate negative from positive...when actually, they are both necessary for our reality to work. Positive supports survival, and negative reinforces positive. It is best to have an emotional definition to a concept, correct? Negative provides this. There is a reason both sides of human nature exist. Unfortunately, we haven't learned to curb the materialistic side...

Reincarnation

I believe in this as well. New souls aren't "created"; old ones are reused...for whatever reason. A giant cosmic cycle is all this is. Energy is neither created nor destroyed.

Besides, there are tons of accounts of little kids recounting past wars that they never witnessed.

Karma

Karma is the electrical system for the energies in this world. Without karma, there is no sandbagging, and no water-works to keep the pressure stable. That's where all of this bad and good stuff comes from...karma. Every action creates energy which affects the system in whatever way.

Denying of the self as the way to happiness

I've already addressed this, but I'll go a little deeper into it. Tell me...if you focused entirely upon serving yourself for happiness, exactly what would you feel proud for doing on your deathbed? What accomplishments would you remember, that weren't done for someone else?

Would you be able to find happiness in a bottle? In a bank account? In a gorgeous blond willing to do whatever you wanted? In having every person know and love you for being popular, which you did by being someone who is only special by corporate standards?

Exactly how would you make yourself proud of having been alive, if you only serve yourself?

These are the responses I have made to the "New Age" (so-called) concepts. In truth, they are "Rediscovery" concepts, as they have existed for thousands of years...but I digress.

Who else knows these truths?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

I see what is happening and don't imagine things that aren't. I see clearly. I am not clouded by imaginings.
Imaginings come are seen and are seen as imaginings.

edit on 23-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Why, then, do you always edit your posts?

What's the point in proofreading?

If you see clearly, then the first thing you type is the thing that is clear. By editing it, you've made it cloudy.

All right, you say you are not clouded by imaginings.

Give me some examples. Do you aspire to have a particular occupation? Do you aspire to live in a different place? Do you aspire to have a family?

Ten years ago, did you have aspirations?

Did you attain those aspirations?

Or, are you now in the exact same place you were then?

Time moves forward, but you will stand still if you do not ride the wave.

reply to post by Starchild23


Thanks for your contribution!

I will comment on later, i have to walk my beloved dog.

reply to post by Starchild23


Service to self and service to thers
I agree with your ideas. We must serve all, self and others. It requires discipline and wisdom but we can benefit ourselves and others.
ALLtrusim is serving ALL, some people think that alltruism is about thinking only on others, but no, IMO, ALLtrusim is serving all, including us, true wisdom is knowing how to do this in our daily lives.

reply to post by ottobot


Your warning on point #3 is extremely relevant. I fear many are discovering these self-evident concepts and applying them in an unbeneficial way. Concepts and gnosis of All-One and 'that' which is purely aware may be true, but when applied to this relative human existence improperly, the wisdom gained serves no functionality besides states of catatonic detachment from perceptions and physical reality.

Nice #4. I agree.

When we have gnosis, experience, or understand the concepts mentioned in this thread, it should naturally tell us a few things.

1. Whatever or wherever 'That' Is or may Be, in this present moment I am relatively a human. Therefore, I must fulfill the natural state of being a relative human. Carpe diem! Observe and experience human existence as fully as we so will.

2. In being a relative human, we have the gifts of imagination, choice, and co-creation. Use them!

3. With kgnowledge of All-One, we cause less suffering to ourselves and others, because it is foolish for Self to cause suffering to Self.

Peace.

I'm certainly no follower of any New Age beliefs, but I can briefly describe my own personal philosophies (which I have, with mindfulness and reasoning deduced through meditation and deep thought). As these are not really a representation of the teachings of the Gautama Buddha, they are derived through my personal quest for truth, which brought me on the Middle Way and the Dharma.

- We are all one.
In the same way that a wave is the ocean and an apple is the tree (both giving rise to one another), then if my brain is me, and your arm is you, then we are the universe. We are not just interconnected, but dependently arising expressions of the Absolute, God, the universe, or any name you wish to give it.

- The existence of a higher self and lower self.
There is no higher or lower self, as there is no ego, merely an illusion that appears as selfishness. We act in a very simple musical called life, and having fooled ourselves, we believe we are independent beings. Through realization of no ego existing, our "two selves" become transparent.

- Wanting causes suffering.
Desire promotes attachment to those unskilled, and in attachment, we cling to phantoms of things, things that are here today and gone tomorrow. But desiring to be desireless is still desire. Live, love, and experience as things are. There's no reason to crave if you are satisfied in all things. To be unattached is liberation, the very meaning of Nirvana (which essentially means unbound, the mind like an unbound flame).

- Denying the self as a way to happiness.
"Self" in this way means the concept of you. You're not a self, though. You have a name, face, way of speaking, favorite movies, and an age, but these are all concepts of identity. Getting past these, what you are is an expression of the universe, which is you. You are the universe experiencing itself one at a time. A tendril that runs down from ink spilt on the wall, so to speak. True happiness is achieved by not forcing your will on the universe, which is always fruitless. Instead, deny the illusion of self and be one with the universe. When you go with the flow, all things are much easier.

- We are all one;
[color=cyan] There is a Creator of us ALL* I feel there is because its signs hidden in the way ALL* communicate- live - have to consume some form of veggie/flesh/spiritual energies to survive ect. and how when alert the conscious minds work. Ex. Humans can hear the CRY of an animal in harm and recognize it-Humans can communicate with animals in home pets or circus as well as in the wild (seems a connection exist as opposed to a human talking to a chair made of steel not made from the source but from human designers and machines so metal chair and human cannot communicate nor can an animal in a cage in a zoo communicate with the steel cage its in that is artificial. but the caged animal can communicate to the human its hungry with noise and body language...
So some evidence of the SOURCE there if any chose to see. Further even if ET/aliens are more advanced then humans if they can understand human communications and eating habits due to them having communication and eating habits as well is this not ANOTHER SIGN OF A SIMILAR CREATOR INFLUENCE TO COMMUNICATE AND EAT BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THE STEEL CAGE OR CHAIR DOING EITHER IN THEIR ARTIFICIAL EXISTENCE.
- Existence of higher self (good self) and lower self (bad self);
[color=CYAN] existence of higher self to 1 is the connection understanding of the humans & other non humans possessing both flesh form that dies and a soul/internal energy or spirit that is made of energy that does not die (but can be captured and manipulated). And recognizing that 1 part is guiding the other at times (conscious over flesh) & they even switch guiding influence (flesh over spirit) with the temptations of the flesh like materialism and things that prevent a spirit from progressing due to wealth/greed and activities to obtain, even if it includes stepping on others to get the materialized lifestyle all while closing the door to the spirit/internal energy/soul realm (spirit captured and placed into flesh)
- wanting causes suffering;
[color=cyan] related to above materialism post as far as not being able to decipher what you want is not the same as what you need. So yes wanting to have a mansion or drive a Bentley or Lambo may cause you to kill another or manipulate a few billion$ from hard working people who trusted your investment ideas even though you were scheming from day 1
- Ego as the bad guy;
[color=cyan] Well if you talk like your better then everyone else or present that you are and feel inside your heart that your the best there ever was this is kind of a fail and can cause harm upon others who may not feel like you but you feel hey im the best in this sector so if I say kill then you better kill ect. .Or even worst you encounter Angels and they help you in ways to become physically and metaphysically as well as mentally/ spiritually stronger so you can help others in a positive way and then your ego says hey I can do what I want they wont be back any time soon and then use all the powers they taught you in vain to become some evol dictator that controls and rules over those the Angels wanted you to help. SO yes to 1 ego is bad. Confidence in 1z self is not though..
- Reincarnation;
[color=cyan] to 1 is just the SAME spirit/soul/internal energies relating to past flesh forms possessed by the being of interest. 1spirit/soul/internal energies various flesh forms manifested. So single celled to multi celled or Light form to Dragon form to Human form and back to light dragon form with a human conscious acquired TO BETTER UNDERSTAND FROM A HIGHER SELF that may be able to interact more since understanding has been obtained. Makes 1 think did humans learn to SWIM when they came on land or is it from a more WATER based existence...
- Karma;
[color=cyan] FOLLOW THE GOLDEN RULE? Very simple and respect species that may exist and share the same environment as you...
- Ascension; [color=cyan]= FREQUENCY CHANGING OF FLESH & SPIRIT LOCATIONING
Reference reincarnation and Karma post and relate Karma to the flesh body you may manifest consciously or subconsciously due to your spirit/internal/soul energies activities in its previous flesh or 3d body and add LIGHT body and LIGHT zones where they may exist outside of 3d understanding but still within the PHASES OF LIFE AND DEATH WITHIN EXISTENCE.
- Service to self and service to others (law of one doctrine);
[color=CYAN] (STS or service to self) Do what you want with your body and will to get ahead no matter the cause and effect on others to get there. So you WILL get your Bentley or Lambo but someone else paid for it with their flesh or financial stress your only about what makes you happy or comfortable-(STO or service to others) Assist CREATOR CREATIONS OF ANY KIND WHERE YOU SEE THEM NEEDING HELP SOME EVEN SACRIFICE LIKE THE LAMB! FOR OTHERS. Didn't know I was considered a new ager thought this was ANCIENT TEACHINGS IN A modern world of MAN. Thanks OP im sure you helped some to understand the minds better w/ this thread
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA
NAMASTE*******

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


Everything you just described would be called "New Age".

Sorry, but that's how it's called.

I don't believe karma is a myth. I believe it's a part of our reality because I believe people are living it right now who can see it for what it is. Not a lot......but they're out there. But I also believe that you have to put yourself in situations where it CAN exist. You have to WANT karma to happen in order for it to happen.

Karma to me is when good things happen to you when you least expect it. You might put yourself in a situation where it can happen but not necessarily be thinking about it. You may just be putting yourself in that situation for more practical reasons. You may also have been the type of person that gave of yourself more than what you asked for in return. And maybe that new situation you put yourself in, put you first for a change.

Then you wake up one day and realize that the tide is turning. That something good is happening to you that you didn't even expect. You weren't even looking for it. Maybe in the back of your mind somewhere you were asking for it by believing in it and doing good things for the sake of it, but you had gotten to the point where you didn't believe it was ever going to REALLY happen. You got jaded to the concept.

The reason I think that “new age” ideas like karma are discounted and not taken seriously is that the public still has this image in their brain of “New Age Idealists” running around with flowers in their hair, a joint sticking out of their mouth using words and jargon that the majority of the population just doesn't understand. They come across as people who think they're enlightened and somehow on a different plane of existence than the rest of us. And in some cases they're right. Some of those people are just “out there”. The fact is that karma isn't something mysterious or elusive that only the “enlightened” can explain to us if we give them $100 for a “seminar”. You may as well pay the preacher for a “sermon”. Same thing in my book.

But those are the ones who are detracting other people from seeing things like karma for what they really are. And what karma is, in my opinion at least, is something good or bad that happens to you as a direct result of things you already did. It's a very practical fact of like if you think about it. If you treat yourself and others good, you're going to attract that in your life. If you don't, then you won't. And in some cases you don't even have to try.

Another reason why people don't believe in karma may be due to the fact that they're quick to blame other people for the sh*t that happens to them. Bad things are happening to you yet you think you're doing good? Welcome to life.... now look at yourself and ask yourself why because what's happening to you isn't natural. Be honest if you REALLY want to change your circumstances. Don't be afraid to criticize yourself because personally, I'd much rather be the one who criticizes myself than someone else. Chances are they'll get it wrong because no one knows me better than me. Besides which, after 40 some odd years I've gotten pretty damn good at it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on karma. Now, if you don't mind, PM me for my paypal information. I'm running short on cash.

reply to post by Starchild23


If you want to call the philosophical teachings of a man who lived almost 600 years before Christ "New Age", then by all means, you can do that. But just know in doing so you create an amorphous version of the term New Age, and in the process, also must include the Tao system, the Hindu religion and philosophy, and paganism, among others, in the "New Age" category.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

... And what karma is, in my opinion at least, is something good or bad that happens to you as a direct result of things you already did. It's a very practical fact of like if you think about it. If you treat yourself and others good, you're going to attract that in your life. If you don't, then you won't...

...Another reason why people don't believe in karma may be due to the fact that they're quick to blame other people for the sh*t that happens to them. Bad things are happening to you yet you think you're doing good?

It's just not that simple, though.

Explain how a three year old who accidentally drops a dish on the floor deserves to be locked in a closet and starved for two days?

Explain how a girl who has been institutionalized in a state hospital from a young age due to lack of mental capacities - and is by all accounts, gentle and sweet - gets raped repeatedly by various unknown and unpunished people, then when impregnated is forced to abort the baby, even though she wants to give it up for adoption?

Explain how a wonderful person who lives a life of peace and happiness, giving of self to others and spreading love and kindness ends up dying a long and painful death by systemic cancer at the age of 35?

I mean, really, are we supposed to believe that these are examples of an appropriate karmic exchange?

Yet, these things happen all the time.

The reason I do not believe in karma (as people tend to describe it) is that I have seen many people who cannot fend for themselves or who have no control in a situation live through abuse and many people die horrible deaths.


And, if one suicides to escape pain in this life, must one repeat the painful experience in each subsequent life until able to stand it and live out the life without committing suicide?

One might say, "Well if they lived through the abuse, then the abuse was what was supposed to happen. They lived through it to learn a lesson."

One might say, "If they died that horrible death, it was meant to be."


But, I call bull.

The Landmark Forum and the lessons and ideas presented in A Course in Miracles worked/work well for me in dispelling most of this list for me. Was in permanent, not by any means, but hardly anything is. For me it occurs as an ebb and flow where I can find myself suffering or not suffering, ertc. But once I realize the source of what is "causing" me this, I can keep choosing it or something new and different.

reply to post by ottobot


What are the choices? That a Supreme Cosmic Ego decided to give an innocent person a bad deal in life, or that things happen the way that they happen?

If I am beaten mercilessly by a gang of thugs and left hospitalized, what should I do? Hold a grudge that burns in the deepest pits of my being and causes me personal suffering for possibly the rest of my life? Or should I use every bit of strength I have to get better, forgive those who hurt me, and pass on from what happened?

Better karma and escaping the cycle of rebirth are a focal point of many Eastern religions and some New Age beliefs. As I do not have physical evidence to show you that karma and rebirth actually exist, this is merely a philosophical belief. Regardless, our actions effect ourselves and those around us in the present moment. That is what I'm concerned with in my life. To do good, to turn the other cheek (as a wise man once said), to give of myself, and to refrain from harming others.

Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
If I am beaten mercilessly by a gang of thugs and left hospitalized, what should I do? Hold a grudge that burns in the deepest pits of my being and causes me personal suffering for possibly the rest of my life? Or should I use every bit of strength I have to get better, forgive those who hurt me, and pass on from what happened?

It's up to you.

My point is: why were you beaten mercilessly in the first place?

Better karma and escaping the cycle of rebirth are a focal point of many Eastern religions and some New Age beliefs. As I do not have physical evidence to show you that karma and rebirth actually exist, this is merely a philosophical belief. Regardless, our actions effect ourselves and those around us in the present moment. That is what I'm concerned with in my life. To do good, to turn the other cheek (as a wise man once said), to give of myself, and to refrain from harming others.

Again, if you are then harmed (even when doing only good), is there a reason you were harmed?

Or, is it just whatever happens happens?

If this is the case, then what's the point in doing good? If you have just as much of a chance of receiving bad from outputting good, then what does it matter whether you output good or bad?

Alternatively, I see people who output bad things all the time, yet they receive good things in just as much (or more) abundance.

So, how does that work out?

reply to post by ottobot


Karma and reincarnation

Karma works with reincarnation.
Karma needs a lot of lives to act and to be redeemed.
Maybe sometimes terrible and painful experiences are exactly what the incarnated soul wants to live.
Lord works in mysterious ways, we all heard this...
There is more learning in living hard experiences than good.
The spiritual world is so soft and warm, so full of light and love, souls want to live hard experiences for a change, so that they can value the spiritual world.
Souls come from a world of love and light, maybe they want to experience the opposite of their home, to learn and evolve.

reply to post by ottobot


Even the devout religious have a hard time tackling this issue:
• Why do bad things happen?
• Why do bad things happen to underserving people?


Honestly, the best answer I ever came up with is: "If infinity exists, then everything imaginable and unimaginable has happened, is happening, and will happen. This goes for the extreme poles of perceived good and evil.

reply to post by Manula


Just for the record, my own moniccur "NewAgeMan" refers not to standard "new age" dogma, but the actual new age, as a renewal of everything, and as a new domain of creative possibility and evolutionary growth and transformation for the human being. It's my hope and prayer in terms of who and what I would like to become, because the age we have been in and subjected to, totally sucks and it's time for something new and different, and creative, and therefore fun and enjoyable.

reply to post by ottobot


If the soul of the girl that gets raped repeatedly is a soul that raped a lot of people before, then it's only it's justice.

That said, getting raped repeatedly is extreme and will probably apply to only extremely evil people, not necessarily in this universe and dimensions, but also in others.

For most people, karma is probably just for lying, cheating and stealing and does not get caught.

If you suicide to escape the suffering that you're supposed to get, then yes, you will get it again. What if 1000 years ago, you killed an innocent person in a war, you should get no punishment for that?