Originally posted by Grumble
Taxation is not theft.

It is when you want to take a higher percentage of money from people who earn more simply because they earn more. 'soak the rich' taxes in order to 'spread the wealth' and is nothing more than theft. Theft is not christian.

most "conservatives" seem to have missed kindergarten, where we learn to share, cooperate, and generally stop being greedy little sociopaths. Mine! Mine! Mine!

Most 'far left wing' seem to have missed kindergarten, where we learn not to steal from others, and are they generally greedy and lazy. Mine! Mine! Mine! they scream, licking their chops and snatching other peoples hard earned money.

BTW .. You don't understand what sociopath means. Earning a lliving and wanting to keep what you earn because you should have a RIGHT to keep what you earn and not be a slave to the state does NOT make a person a 'sociopath'. Not even close.

3) We have this thing called science, you know, and we now know what the fetus is and is not.

Yes .. and science has shown that preborn children feel pain .. that they suck their thumbs ... that they open and close their eyes .. that they play with their fingers and with their toes. A preborn childs heart beat starts at an early stage. To stop another human beings heart from beating is to KILL HIM OR HER. And the preferred methods of murdering a preborn child are painful to that child .. death by shredding and death by burning to death with chemicals. How very Christian of democrats to wait this holocaust to continue ... NOT!

4) Can you give me an example of the politically correct left wing agenda in public schools?

You want just one? Sure ... the man made global warming hoax. It's being pushed in the public schools. Al Gore's 'inconvienent truth' bs film is shown everywhere even though it has been proven to be false. Not to mention that the public schools have the NEA as their union .. and the NEA disapproves and lobbies against home schooling. (because that means less teaching jobs which means less income for the left wing union) Homeschooling has been shown time and time again to be a very good option for families and children who are homeschooled score better on national tests and are safer from pedophiles and/or bullies ... but the left wing NEA dismisses these facts and lobbies against it all so they can fill their bank accounts with more union dues.

“Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

Excuse me but I think you are Christian in Name Only (CINO).
How much have you given away?
Do you have a home? Have you thought of giving it to someone less fortunate?
How about a car?
How many of your clothes have you given to those who need them? Not just the Salvation Army but to a beggar on the street.
Obviously you still have a computer. I am sure some child in the ghetto could use it to advance his education. Will you give it away to advance an impoverished but promising youth?
Before you start criticizing others, look at what you have done.
Do you feel you have done enough? If so, I don't consider you Christian.

You remind me of all the CINO's I know. They go and study the bible but leave the practical side alone Monday through Saturday. If you have any possessions at all, then by your own standards, you are a CINO.

I often ask people like you the following question.
My former squad partner said before he died, if he had a dollar, then I had half a dollar.
Give me 1/2 of all you have. I will distribute that half to others who really need it. Would you do that? Would you do it for the rest of your life? I will keep my promise.
Don't ask me to give 1/2 of mine because I willl not. If I can build more wealth then I can give more to those who need it when I have the heart to. And, I am happy to do it.

Is it a deal?

Originally posted by Grumble
I see the same people supporting war, including sending unmanned drones into villages to kill indisciminately, supporting the death penalty, which is often applied to innocent people, and also supporting a police culture where violence, intimidation, and killing is allowed. .

That's absurd. If that is what you see then you need glasses. DEMOCRATS along with Republicans support those things. There is no party line involved. And neither Republicans nor Democrats support police brutality when it happens.

You are painting with a generalization brush. It's wrong. Example - I am against killing children in the womb. I am against the death penalty unless it's an extreme case and is necessary to protect the lives of other inmates or the guards in the jails. Most every person I know who is against abortion feels the same way I do.

But in a way, that is all consistent with being anti-abortion, because you want to reserve the right to JUDGE others.

Oh for the love of pete ... Being anti-Abortion is being pro-child. It is knowing that there is an innocent human being who isn't chosing to die but who is going to die in a painful way and the death is unnecessary. Abortion is a person stopping another person's heart from beating. That is murder. Abortion is murder. If murder can be stopped, then it should be stopped. It's just that simple.


BOTTOM LINE ... it is absolutely silly for anyone - the OP included - to say that republicans are evil or democrats are evil, simply because they belong to or vote for people of that party. The republican platform is NOT evil. The democrat platform is NOT evil. It's when extremes happen in those parties ... the far left or the far right .. that you see things that are unchristian happening.

Originally posted by Grumble
Again, I am interested in the higher principles. Peace. Charity. Tolerance. Kindness. Draw your own conclusions.

Peace? You are interested in peace? Then why defend the democrats? They are into war as much as anyone else. The label 'democrat' doesn't stop them from that. And what about famous democrats like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan ... real 'peaceful' bunch those folks are. NOT!

Charity? Charity is something that is supposed to be freely given. When you call for theft from the productive members of society, simply because they have earned more, that's not those people giving charity, it's YOU STEALING from others.

Tolerance? Like the tolerance you showed to non-democrats by starting this thread? Tolerance ... like the tolerance democrats show? They don't. They just 'tolerate' that which they agree with .. and then bash that which they don't.

Kindness? You can't legislate kindness. And just how is it 'kindness' for you to call for people to become slaves to the state? How is it 'kindness' for you to call for people who don't earn as much as others to STEAL that which others have earned? Explain how that is kindness. Good luck with that.

Sounds like you are trying to legislate your moral beliefs onto others.
Isn't that what the democrats claim that republicans do with abortion?
That it's the republicans trying to legislate their moral values onto others who disagree with them?
YEP. Definately.

You might want to take care of the big log in your own eye before you start trying to take the imagined splinter out of the eyes of the republicans or those who vote republican.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by benrl
eye of needle, Camel through it, Rich man... Nough said.

Just out of curiosity, have you heard what that phrase means? From what I understand, it's not talking about a literal sewing needle. There was a place in some city that had a passage way called "The Eye of the Needle" and the only way for a camel to get through it was for it to crawl through it. It was difficult, but it could be done.

LOL Sure thing, bro.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Mr. Warbucks.

Thank you, Little Orphan Annie, for your kind reply.

Originally posted by Grumble
So I am Christian myself though I have rejected organized religion, and I am generally politically liberal because of it. It seems rather impossible to me that one can study the teachings of Jesus, actually believe in them, and then be a right-winger.

So here is my question: how can you sit through bible class/Sunday school and the sermons of a man or woman of God and still agree with the Republicans on most issues? By most issues, I mean most of the following: pro-war, pro-accumulation of wealth, anti-social programs, anti-education, etc.

sometimes it's hard to seperate the republicans from the democrats. for instance both are willing to go to war for power. i think that's probably a hard one to deny.

as far as wealth the bible has parables about being responsible with money, however it doesn't have parables against making money. there's a difference between worshiping money and having money, that's important to keep in mind.

as far as social programs most republicans believe that people should have self responsibility and not depend on the government for everything. the bible does teach to take care of the poor, but it doesn't mean much if you are made to do it by the government. it needs to be your choice. in other words, if your heart is not in it, it means nothing to God. you can't get points for giving just because it's "the right thing". God doesn't work on a point system is pretty much what is taught in the bible.

as far as the education system goes, i don't know much about that on either side, democrat or republicans.

i lean more towards being a republican than democrat but i think both are pretty idiotic.

thought i would add that these questions are perfectly fine to ask. how can we come together as a people until we understand the other person's point of view? not everyone thinks the same way (thank God for that) so all of these thoughts and ideas should be discussed in a civil manner to better understand each other.

While God and Jesus are beings of peace, they are not pacifists. You see, in the Bible God does support some wars, such as King David's war against Jericho.

A man of peace will avoid war, but has no inhibitions for fighting for what he believe sin.

A pacifist will not fight for any reason and those guys can just be ignored and dismissed.

Of course, most people will use the bible to cherry pick the messages that they like, as long as it supports and legitimizes their interests. That's the thinking you've got to watch out for.

For you see, when people use the "turn the other cheek" that's exactly what they are doing.

for you see, Jesus did not turn the other cheek when he fought against the Pharisees. He did not use violent means, but he still fought against them and that's what got him in trouble. If he was a true pacifist, he would not have fought against them and there would be no Christians today.

Originally posted by Grumble

Originally posted by whyamIhere
That's the most loaded question I have ever read...

Pass...

Why is that a loaded question? I am distressed by the number of people who self-identify as Christians but hold political beliefs that are, in my opinion, very much in opposition to the principles of Christ.

I can assure you that most liberals look at the GOP and see a few rich folks manipulating the mass of dumb white people to vote against their interests. Therefore the assumption they make is that being dumb, the poor white Repubs are traditionalists (change is scary to small minds), and since being Christian is traditional, they go though the motions while not understanding the philosophy.

So convince me otherwise. Or explain to me why these assumptions are wrong. I am genuinely interested in your answers.

edit on 22-4-2012 by Grumble because: (no reason given)

Why do you think that as you say dumb white folks are being lead against their intrest by the republican party? Do you think it is right to vote and force other people to support you through taxation and redistribution of money?
The intrest of people should be to get the govwernmnet out of their lives and out of their wallets.

Originally posted by KaelemJames
Ones that i do have "issues" with are ones that are born again. Another thing they will throw at others, is that they are reborn.

I wasn't aware that that was an option...

WHY would a believer have "issues" with those who actually believe God's word?

Why do so many "believers" REFUSE to believe?

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again." ~ John 3:3-7

Originally posted by Grumble
So I am Christian myself though I have rejected organized religion, and I am generally politically liberal because of it. It seems rather impossible to me that one can study the teachings of Jesus, actually believe in them, and then be a right-winger.

So here is my question: how can you sit through bible class/Sunday school and the sermons of a man or woman of God and still agree with the Republicans on most issues? By most issues, I mean most of the following: pro-war, pro-accumulation of wealth, anti-social programs, anti-education, etc.

That's a super difficult question to answer..... especially for those who think Jesus is the only way to salvation