Tucson Cops Search for Missing Girl, 6

reply to post by Xcathdra

Thank you for you time and detailed response. I most definitely got my questions answered and learned even more in the process.

And I do understand what you mean about the police not provoking fear in the community. I do. But I've got a question. A 'what if' question.

Remember the video camera (that we know about for real) the one aimed at the house and Isabel's window. The police have that. So... 'What if' they do see an abductor and for whatever reason they have keep the info close to the chest. Then - another child is taken from the surrounding area in a similar way. Are the police not at that point liable in some way?

I know it's a lot of 'what if' and 'stretch' but I'm trying to ferret out why we haven't heard back about that tape.

Thanks tons.
peace

reply to post by silo13


For the what if part and the camera ask yourself this -

You are a police officer working this case. You have seen the video and you know the child was abducted, but you cant identify the abductor or pinpoint their location. You are not sure if the abducted child is dead or alive, which means the case is investigated as if the child is still alive.

Do you take that video info and release the info to the public?

Consider -
If you do release the video -
Option 1 - The abductor realizes they are caught, drops the child off somewhere and hauls ass out of the area.
Option 2 - The abductor realizes they are caught, and kills the child and hauls ass out of the area.
Option 3 - The abductor realizes they are caught, and on their way out of town they snag a second child.
Option 4 - The abductor realizes they are caught, kills and dumps the first child, and snags a 2nd on the way out.
Option 5 - The abductor realizes they are caught and a hostage / standoff situation ensues resulting in death.

etc etc etc.. I can keep going but you get the idea.

You will need to weigh any action / decision on the release of information against the implications to the current case and the impact on the community playing the what if game. You are dealing with an individual who saw fit to abduct a child, already establishing the fact the suspect is not all present in the mind. An action to warn the public may make perfect sense to you and the public, but to the abductor it could mean something else entirely.

You see the release of info as a way out of the situation for the child and abductor. Thought is since you know who you are looking for, the abductor should take that as he needs to surrender because its over with.

The abductor may very well take it as its over with, however in his mind whats over with is not the situation, but his life, resulting in completely random actions that would make no sense to us.

Sometimes releasing a smoking gun to soon can result in negative implications to the current situation, making it a lot worse and actually placing the public in more danger rather than less.

If the abductor is in Denny's with the child eating, and info was released to the public, its not out of the realm of possibility that the public wont try to confront the individual, resulting in an abduction and now a hostage situation involving 20 people.

Every action has a reaction....

You have to weigh the publics safety and interest in the case with that of the safety / interest of the person abducted.

Not an easy task in the least....

You are welcome.. If there are others here who have more info / familiarity with the States laws feel free to chime and an correct any info I may have gotten wrong.

Isabel Celis' father appears in city court

So Isabel's dad is appearing in court for EIGHT (8) dog related citations.

So we're supposed to believe someone snuck into the house and through a HIGH and SMALL window with all those dogs around? (And yes we do know there were dogs at the home at the time)...

Also - (from a Nancy Grace source) There's a report coming in concerning a small red car the family purportedly does not use. A piece of folded fabric (carpet? blanket) and a pillow was taken from that car by the police. Now, we can't read too much into that - who's to say the child didn't nap on the blanket and pillow at some point. Right? Right???

peace

Originally posted by silo13
Isabel Celis' father appears in city court

So Isabel's dad is appearing in court for EIGHT (8) dog related citations.

So we're supposed to believe someone snuck into the house and through a HIGH and SMALL window with all those dogs around? (And yes we do know there were dogs at the home at the time)...

Were the dogs present at the time of the abduction?

reply to post by silo13


Ugh... Nancy Grace... I dont know how she is even credible after her stunts as a prosecuting attorney. Inviting the media along to go on search warrants is just bad staff work. Continuing to do it after a judge told you no and wrapped your knuckles for doing it is just stupidity of the worst kind.

I have seen on some other opinion legal shows about the coincidences between this case and the one out of KC.

We saw how the police investigation turned against the family in that one....

reply to post by Xcathdra

A perfect example of a 'damned either way' situation isn't it.

It's just all so convoluted and weird how all this is playing out...but not like we haven't been there before.

Thank you again.

peace

Edit to add: And yes, it was reported the dogs were present at the time - I included that in my post but I think it got lost in the parenthesis.

reply to post by Xcathdra

I know - I can't stand her either but she does get info and I just found the link - it's here in the transcripts (about the red hatchback car and the items taken from it)...

source

peace

Off and running this morning and forgot to post this right off:

Neighbor heard male voices near Celis home morning of disappearance

A woman who lives next door to the Celis family says she heard male voices and barking dogs outside her home early Saturday morning, the day 6-year-old Isabel Celis was reported missing.

Alicia Stardevant says it was around 6:30 a.m. when she was awakened by her dogs and heard the voices. A wall separates Stardevant's home from Isabel's bedroom window. Stardevant says the voices sounded like they were coming from her side of the wall, not the Celis home.

"My dogs were going crazy," Stardevant said. "Their dogs were going nuts, and I remember briefly waking up and hearing male voices outside my bedroom window. But it was light outside. I didn't really think anything of it. Then I went back to sleep. Then at eight o'clock I got a knock on the door saying she was missing."

There's more to the article and video.

On a side note? Why even bother to have dogs if you're not going to GET UP AND CHECK when they're 'going crazy'? That's just insane. And you hear male voice and DON'T GO CHECK?

This either indicated this is normal happenings in this area or the woman is just completely and utterly without and form social consciousness.

Stardevant says since the incident, police have interviewed her several times.

Let's hope they gleam something helpful from her. Two male voices or just one male voice telling the dos to shut up or speaking to Isabel, etc.

peace

Tucson police checking bodies of water for clues to missing girl

Tucson police officers have begun checking bodies of water near the neighborhood of missing first-grader Isabel Celis, said police Chief Roberto Villaseñor.

He said officers are primarily checking the water areas for any signs that may be connected to Isabel’s disappearance.

Officers are not going into the water and no dive teams have been called in, he said. The searching now is just visual.

Let's hope the search never includes those divers!

peace

Just the throw this out there how many 6 year olds do we know who would willingly go ith a stranger who enters throughte window that they dont know? How many of those 6 year olds would remain quiet being led out the window / door of the house?

Im wondering if its an accidental death being covered up by an abduction.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Im wondering if its an accidental death being covered up by an abduction.

There does seem to be an awful lot of dependencies (the dogs, the screen, the 'check points) which make it very hard to remain unbiased. One of the warning signs for me? The reluctance for the parents to be interviewed for the public. That just stand out to me as being very odd. Very odd indeed - Regardless of the recent cirus surrounding Lisa Irwin.

peace

reply to post by silo13


When you say interviewed by the public do you mean police interview or media interview?

If its police you know my position on that one.

if its for the media I honestly do not blame them. Even more so now after the Trayvon Martin - Zimmerman fiasco out of Florida. The media no longer just reports the news.. They make themselves a part of it and when it suits them they just make it up as they go.

reply to post by Xcathdra

I mean - statements for the public. Personal pleas for a childs return (in my opinion) are so very important.
That's the only point - they seem to be hiding.
On the other hand after the Lisa case and now Zimmerman? Can we blame them.
But then there's the other hand! NOTHING should stop parents from doing anything and everything to find their child, appeal to a kidnapper, etc.

peace

Surveillance video released in Isabel Celis case

The Tucson Police Department is looking for five potential witnesses who may have information about the disappearance of 6-year-old Isabel Celis.

On Friday afternoon, police said they believe two males and three females were walking near Isabel's neighborhood the night she disappeared and they are asked to call 911 as soon as possible.

Police released surveillance video of those individuals taken while they were walking in a parking lot.

Let's hope this pans out!!!

peace

Tucson police release new information about Isabel Celis case

Tucson Police say one person has come forward, who self-identified themselves from surveillance video released by police Friday.

The cameras captured five individuals, three women and two men walking on the east side of St. Joseph's Church last Saturday. The church is located in the area of Broadway and Craycroft. Authorities hope to piece together the timeline of Isabel Celis' disappearance. Police say they are in the process of interviewing the individual and hope to identify the others in his group.

Slow going. Inch by inch.

prayers and peace to all involved

Isabel Celis: Missing Girl, 6, May be in Mexico

From the video - law authorities are think Isabel may have been taken to Mexico.

The video doesn't give much info about Mexico but states there is a 6th person in the video they're still looking for.

peace and prayers

reply to post by silo13


damm was hoping they had found her by now hidden away but safe.. but while theres hope theres a chance of life so lets keep it positive

Isabel Celis: Police Look for Break in Similar Case

A man entered a house in the middle of the night and molested a girl half an hour north of the Tucson home where Isabel Celis disappeared last month, possibly providing clues in the case of the missing 8-year-old who vanished from her bedroom over a week ago.

Police say a white man in his 20s entered a house in a neighborhood in Arizona's Pima County around 2 a.m. Monday and went into a bedroom where three sisters, aged 6, 8 and 10, were sleeping. The intruder reportedly molested one of the girls before fleeing the scene.

source

This took place about a half hour from where Isabel disappeared.

It’s also reported ‘nothing like this’ had ever happened before’ in this area.

The police report they don’t think there is any connection.

peace and prayers for all

THE WRONG TAPE - THE WRONG DAY!

Meanwhile, the Celis investigation suffered an embarrassing blow late Monday when police admitted that surveillance video released just days ago and believed to show potential witnesses was in fact from the wrong night. The footage of people leaving a nightclub -- thought to be a key piece of evidence -- has now been confirmed to have nothing to do with the case.

source

*face palm*

You've got to be freaking kidding me. Tell me there's a REASON for this?

peace