The Forgotten People Of The America's

reply to post by ronishia

What a beast of a thread op. I really enjoyed it due to the richness of explanation of Native peoples tragedies. I have been watching a show on NatGeo called Navaho Police, and I have to say it gives a very good look into the lives of Native Americans. Not only do most live in shacks, but they'recommunities are quite small and rural. One aspect of their lives I thought was neat, is how Navaho police deal with matters much different than those in the big cities. They seem much more friendly and do not try to detain you for long periods of time. Their goal seems to be only focused on helping the community. Even resisting arrest leads to a 24 hour stay in jail. Alot of these officers grew up with the people they're arresting, it is very interesting. I think that it is very good that there is currently sutes against the Gov for allowing abuse of native people. Thanks for the post.

reply to post by ronishia


Have you ever heard about Kennewick man, penyon woman 3, Windover Bog mummies or the other 20 plus sites of the true forgotten people of the Americas.

The Cherokee…are tall, erect and moderately robust; their limbs well shaped, so as generally to form a perfect human figure; their features regular, and countenance open, dignified, and placid, yet the forehead and brow are so formed as to strike you instantly with heroism and bravery; the eye, though rather small, yet active and full of fire, the iris always black, and the nose commonly inclining to the aquiline. Their countenance and actions exhibit an air of magnanimity, superiority, and independence. Their complexion is a reddish brown or copper colour; their hair, long, lank, coarse, and black as a raven, and reflecting the like lustre at different exposures to the light. The women of the Cherokees are tall, slender, erect and of a delicate frame; their features formed with perfect symmetry; the countenance cheerful and friendly; and they move with a becoming grace and dignity

Sounds like me. I probably have some native blood.

Superb thread and reading, I have not finished reading all the information yet but I will post a link regarding the Ipperwash scandal here in Ontario.

In a nut shell the Government took all of the natives land here for the purpose of a WW2 training base and relocated then to a rocky pier of land called Kettle Point sticking out in Lake Huron.

The took the fertile land, and especially prime hunting grounds.
This land, they promised to return as soon as the war was over.
They never ever returned it, It took almost 50 years for the Natives to get what was once their own by force and it cost one life and untold damage to families whom just want back what was theirs.

What a mess it was the good thing is it made the National news here for weeks on end and some people became more aware of the Native suffering here in Canada.

To the OP S&F and more if I could, you are doing your people a service and then some.
Link to my post below
www.cbc.ca...

If you Google ipperwash it will blow you away with what the Canadian government is capable of here.


Regards, Iwinder

Thousands of European settlers ended up defecting into Indian tribes, there way of life was so different than what they knew. Not one Indian willingly defected to the European settlers way of life, this speak volumes.

Native Americans are the only group in the Americas that have any right to complain about illegal immigrants...

This is one of the best threads on ATS at the moment! Well done and well written.

What was done to the native american population is another example of man's ability to commit the most heinous of acts in the name of greed.
I think the native american lifestyle was much closer to how we are supposed to be living then how we are now.

What we are witnessing has happened countless time through out antiquity. Hundred's if not thousands of unique cultures have been dis-guarded to the dust bin of history. Its just part of Human Nature, ever civilization at one time or another has been guilty of it at some point.

Just look at the history of the Roman Empire. The Greeks, the Carthagians, the Egyptians, the Jews, the Germanic Tribe, the Gauls (French), and even the Celts (England) all fell to the Might of the Empire. The Sad fact is, when two opposing civilizations clash there can only be three outcomes, one will rise, one will fall, and if your luck the civilizations will merge into a new civilization.

For example Rome and Carthage fought a series of three war (the Punic Wars) over a 100 year period. When the wars began Rome was the under dog, Carthage controlled North Africa, Sicily, and Spain, while Rome controlled only Italy. But do to Carthage's aggression the Roman Republic was force to defend itself, and during these wars Rome become an Empire. The Romans seized Sicily, Spain, and eventually North Africa and then Cartage it self. The Punic Wars helped forge the Republic of Rome in to the Roman Empire. One civilization rose to the challenge and won the day while the other fell. But as we know form history empires rise and fall.

Today what we are witnessing is the last gasp of these once proud people trying to cling to past. But Civilization for better or worse continues to progress and there is no stopping it. The only time civilization ever goes back is when it collapse.

I recommend we document the ways and customs of these dying civilizations, so they are not lost to history. That's the best we can hope for given the way things are at the present time.

So let me leave you with these words of wisdom: "Progress (for better or worse) is coming, get on board or get the hell out of the way!"

And while we're on the subject of Native peoples, long before Europeans came to these shores they were fighting among them selves and being just a rotten to each other as we were to them before we got here. The Aztec's killed and devastated the weaker tribes of Central America long before the Spanish arrived. Just this justify what was done, of course not. Its just human nature, we may have crawled out of the cave and discovered fire and over the centuries our technology has advanced. However we still have a hard time fighting our baser instincts.

I have 1/32 Native American heritage. I know it isn't a lot but I am still proud of my Native American ancestry and I am very familiar with there teaching and the way they lived. Its tragic what has happened and to this very day after everything that has happened to there culture are still discriminated against.

This post is just another example of how ignorant and self centered so many people are today.
First, Amerindians are not "native Americans". America didn't exist until the white man came here and created it. Before, it was not America, at all.
2nd, and most important. All people have suffered the same or worse than the amerindians. It's a fact of life, so grow up and get over it.

Originally posted by ronishia
who would you say are the most persecuted people on the planet .

In the past? Possibly the Native Americans. Now? Whites. We're the only ones who are not allowed our own land without having been conquered. And when you consider that land is a pre-requisite for the existence of a nation, then it is indeed a form of genocide being waged against people of European descent.

reply to post by ronishia


" They were forced to turn their backs on their peoples teachings, forced never to speak their native tongues, they were killed, beaten, raped, thrown off their lands all in the name of god, all because the intruders to their lands feared them, and that my friends is racism, culturism and any other isms you can think off in a nutshell, FEAR of what you don’t know, FEAR because they were different."

No, not fear...These people have an agenda that they have perpetuated in every country, all throughout time.

If they want land, they come in with the bible and they leave with land. If they want oil, they say they 'think' you
have weapons, and they leave with their oil. Lots of people die, and lots of people (and their descendants) end up with nightmares. They don't care. These are the Real Savages. Watch FOX TV to see them in action.

These are the same people, McCain, Tea Party, The KKK...they never stop.

They tell you you are 'uncivilized' while they do uncivilized things to you.

They tell you you are the 'savage' while they savagely ravage all your humanity.

It's an old game, and these people have gotten good at it.

They are spread all over the world and they work together. Geographic borders only apply to the 'little people', (we call them indigenous)-- not them. The world is theirs, and if they can't have what they want, they'll kill you and take it. Ever so often they FAKE reasons to go to war.

Their legal system is a sham (and it is theirs) and they know it. Any agreement or Treaty with them is a sham, and history has proven this. As soon as they want to violate any agreement, they revert to being savages or just use their handy legal system to doubletalk you.


Whenever I see the 'Save The Children' commercial, I think: Hey! Where did all their diamonds and gold go? If they had their country's natural resources they wouldn't be hungry! Send their parents some weapons!

Look at all the hungry people all over the world, in so many countries and continents, who are in dire straits. These countries were not allowed to progress naturally.

The same game was played on them.

Simple as that.

(I read somewhere that China is the only country that does not allow 'outsiders' (you know who they are) to roam freely throughout their country. I believe that they restrict them to a specific area, and that's where they have to do their 'deals'...Sounds like a Smart Idea!)

It is impossible to verify these stories because too many told so long afterwards and not by the victims, in most cases anyway. In some ways it does a dis-service to the people of this heritage and keeps them down. I tend to think most people back in those times, as today, were good people.

The world was supposedly much more brutal at one time and I have never seen evidence that one group was more brutal than another.

The Indians had wars amongst themselves and this is a fact in history and were brutal to one another just the same. On the other hand i would think a lot of people from that heritage would view these stories as going way too far and not really how they want to be viewed.

www.google.com...

These dont look like the type of people willing to take #:

www.mexica.net...

Originally posted by shamaniski
I have 1/32 Native American heritage. I know it isn't a lot but I am still proud of my Native American ancestry and I am very familiar with there teaching and the way they lived. Its tragic what has happened and to this very day after everything that has happened to there culture are still discriminated against.

I am sure your ancestors copulated willingly.

reply to post by ronishia


Good thread. Full of information.. s/f.. You may like this thread too. Especially in light if what I have just read..

UN to investigate plight of US Native Americans for first time

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Epic thread man, well done.
I haven't read all the links yet but it's gruesomely fascinating and a slice of history I hadn't read, it's disturbingly similar down here, with our native land holders AND kids from UK. Shocking really.

Our government took on, at the behest of ? church? England? UK gov ? about 130,000 (min) kids from the UK and stuck them in religious 'schools/institutions' (told a lot of them their parents/siblings were dead) and got those same children to build churches for them. Same abuse story.
Their treatment of the aboriginal children here was just as shameful too, they also were handed to the church. They are still suffering as the Indians are, with alcohol, abuse etc, but the elders are stepping in more and more to take back responsibility and to help their people remember who they are and our government does try to make amends the best way they know how.

Boggles my mind some days how such institutions still run?
Have they really made amends?
Be lovely if they were so sincerely sorry, and they gave everything they had back to those same people, they may be then, would be forgiven by the people they affected.

I have always felt in awe of the native connection to the land, loved westerns (movies) with Indians in them as a kid, but could never work out why there was such violence as if it was heroic on the white dudes part, didn't gel to me.
If you're lucky enough to sit in on an Australian Aboriginal Corrobory (sorry not sure on spelling) it is really magical and that's how I always imagined the Indians...magical.

This is why history is important, it should never be repeated the same way, it should be remembered with equal compassion and determination that it ends now, from this point on, and we refuse to make the same mistakes again.

Perpetuating the grief of days gone by makes it truly difficult, but it's not impossible to break that cycle, they just have to remember who they are and I wish them all the sunshine/moonlight they want on their beautiful faces in their endevour.
I'm positive their ancestors would want them to forgive themselves for losing touch, ancestors always want you to be happy, and they need to tell their stories, any chance they get, because there's plenty of us who would love to hear about it.


Thanks again for a brilliant thread

x we're all native

reply to post by ronishia


I have the Highest Respect for the Native American Indian! I have spent many days off going to the Cherokee Indian Reservation and just finding a place to sit and relax. I usually go to the camp ground where there are allot of bamboo trees. I am drawn to them for whatever reason!

The Native American Indians are going to be the only people that will know how to fight the Locust that have arrived on our Earth. They will have to go back to the old ways to call upon the powers of the Earth to Heal our Planet of the coming Alien Attack.

I want to say Thank You to an Indian Shaman Called William White Crow out of California! This man has helped me more than anyone! He told me that I was a Spirit Warrior like him! The Battle of Bighorn holds somekind of deep meaning in my life! The spirit of Crazy Horse and Chief Joseph, and Little Wolf have came to me many times! The Indian Spirits will always live on and come back to Earth when needed!

reply to post by shamaniski


How do you trace back where you came from? I know something about the Baker List, but I have been un-able to trace back. Is there somekind of DNA Test to find out if I have Indian Blood in me?

reply to post by ronishia


Thanks for the thread! Very well researched

I thought this would be appropiate here, Its really wonderful and beautiful.

Cherokee Morning Song - Native American Indian Music and Photos

www.youtube.com...

Oh my god, quite the long post. I'm looking forward to reading it the next couple of days
S+F for even bringing this issue to light though.

Canada's natives have had a rather rough journey as well, and still suffer from it, despite their meaningless benefits from the government. They are over represented various aspects, including crime, drug abuse, addiction, low income, etc. up here. Just a random stat quote from Juristat from an old assignment:

In 2007/2008, Aboriginal adults accounted for 22% of admissions to sentenced custody, while
representing 3% of the Canadian population.

Perreault, S. (2009). The incarceration of Aboriginal people in adult correctional services. Juristat: Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, 29(3).

And the sad thing is, no one cares. People up here who don't even consider themselves racist are usually not exempt when the rounds of native jokes go around. Everyone seems to have been led to believe that natives have an easy life, don't even have to work, don't have to pay taxes, etc, so they should just shut up and stop complaining, and start being functional members of society. Sounds easy right? We only get brief mention of the horrors performed to the native population in our education. And even then, it's taught so young that it's censored and a fluff story for the children.

It's no surprise no one sees how the effects of the residential schools has only bled through the generations. Addicts raising addicts raising addicts, as society turns its back on them. I'm only writing a brief response, but I hope to go more in depth later on. I've worked with this population a lot, it's sad beyond words when you actually witness how much they've gotten the short end of the stick their entire lives, and even sadder yet how hard many have to fight to actually get out of this continuing circle of suffering. They really are such a beautiful people, with such a rich culture. I wish people would just wake up enough to look past their racist perspectives to realize it.