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Mohammad - a perspective

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posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

I can tell you that God chose Isaac for a special purpose....


What do you think that special purpose was?


but what are you really trying to ask me?


Uh, the same question I asked above. Do you you think the special calling was leading to Jesus? Do you think the special calling was leading to the 12 tribes of Israel and the "chosen" people, therefore leading to the inheritance of the land that God promised Abraham? Is that the difference? What do you think Isaac's seed was called for?
edit on 23-4-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





I haven't hung around buddhists, but I do know hindus are extremely receptive to Christ....some even accept Jesus as an avatar of God. But....I guess they are being blasphemous, right?


Nope, they are not being blasphemous. Yeshua is God, theyre closer to the truth than muslim ever will be. He's not an "avatar", he is God himself and he said it so many times and no one believed him except for those who were not indoctrinized. Look at the link in my signature, Yeshua is in every part of the OT. There are literally hundreds of scriptures where he is present. This is what the OT and NT are bearing witness of, they are the 2 witnesses giving testimony of him.



Yet, its also easier for a child of christians, in westernized nations.....to come away from Jesus because you also have the freedom to insult and mock Jesus.


Yes, and it does happen sadly, but it is their right. Not everyone is blessed enough for him to reveal himself to them, otherwise they would not turn away. Anyone may come to him, but there are those he chooses to lead his flocks. We are the ones who he reveals himself to. When i was groiwng up as a kid going to church with my dad, i just thought he was a holy man, i had no idea who he really was. I had to live in hell for 14 years before i could see him. Some people go their entire lives and never gain revelation as to his true identity. I gained revelation because i asked for him to show me who he was and it was only then when i started dreaming and finding him in the OT and discovering the symbolism between the OT and NT. I have never even gone to seminary school or bible college and i am learning things most people never see or even understand because he is showing me who he is.




Thats because.... by the time children reach the age of understanding religion on their own ... they also understand their "freedom" of choosing or rejecting God.


You wont get any arguement from me on this. We cannot force them to believe. Believing starts with opening themselves up to Yeshua, to hearing him call their names. Not everyone can open themselves up to him. I shut myself off for 14 years and went my own way and became agnostic. I never knew him until i wanted him. I wanted to know him.



posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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You keep trying to claim Mohammad's holocaust of the "idolatry, polytheism and paganism" was a good thing.

Maybe they were the good, decent, peaceful people, and that is just more evidence that Mohammad was an agent of evil, and not good.

Lets go a little further, Muslims are idolaters. They pray towards a stone in the desert. So are most Christians, as in the cross, and of course all the saints.



posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CaptainNemo
 


There is no such thing as a Christian Middle East.


Christianity started in the middle east.



So in effect, Jesus conquered Arabia long before Mohammad. Isiah's prophecy was thus fulfilled.

Yet, idol worship persisted only until Mohammad wiped them out.... which is a point to be considered in Isaiah 42.

Those who worshipped idols were "turned back" and "greatly ashamed" only after Mohammad defeated them.


We might differ here because it seems that your premise is based upon predestination and the idea that God determined everything that will happen, a tenet of the Islamic faith.


No, I'm just going by what the bible says.
(Read above)
Only Mohammad can be credited with ending idolatry and shaming those who called graven images their gods..

edit on 23-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


The Bible explicitly says the lands of Kedar, not all of Arabia. Should I give Mohammad a cookie for trying? He's too late because the prophecy had already been fulfilled.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 



The Bible explicitly says the lands of Kedar, not all of Arabia.

Just Kedar? Take another look at the verse..


11Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.


The wilderness means the barren deserts, like the "wilderness" that Hagar went into with Ishmael. So verse 11 pretty much covers the lands of the Arabs.



Should I give Mohammad a cookie for trying? He's too late because the prophecy had already been fulfilled.


I can give you a cookie for trying to be funny to avoid the facts.

Idolatry prevailed in the places mentioned in verse 11 until Mohammads arrival. It was only Mohammad who ended the culture of idolatry in those lands...thus fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah 42. .

Denying that Isaiah 42 points to Mohammad does you no good. If the bible is a book of prophecies, then it simply foretells of things to come. Whether you like those things or not is irrelevant. The bible is not your own personal magic mirror that speaks what YOU like to hear.


edit on 24-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Denying that Isaiah 42 points to Mohammad does you no good. If the bible is a book of prophecies, then it simply foretells of things to come. Whether you like those things or not is irrelevant. The bible is not your own personal magic mirror that speaks what YOU like to hear.


Obviously, you consider the Bible to be your own personal magic mirror because I already showed how
Isaiah 42:2-3 clearly shows that Muhammad is not the "servant" that this chapter is talking about.

Isaiah 42:2-3


2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.


In order to understand more fully, maybe we need to back it up to Isaiah 41 to see if it gives us any other hints as to who this "servant" will be.

Isaiah 41


7) So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.



8) But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

9) Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.


Once again, it all leads to the coming of Jesus, not Muhammad.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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Isaiah 42
1- "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; Mine Elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles."

Until "...delighteth"

If we consider "mine elect" as a noun, then Mine elect = God’s Chosen = Mustafa (in Arabic). One of the name tiles of our Prophet Muhammad is Al-Mustafa (SAW).

After "delighteth..."

All prophets mentioned in the Bible after Jacob (pbuh) came for Israelites, not Gentiles. This includes Jesus (pbuh):

Mathew 15: 21-26


21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.

22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”


Matthew 10:5-6


5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.


And many more.

And Jesus (pbuh) did not stay on earth long enough to do that. But Muhammad (pbuh) was a Gentile and he brought message and judgment to Gentiles first.

2- "He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heart in the street."

Here the word "not cry" is used as "not complain about the duty that I gave him" because we see in verse 13 God says "... he shall cry". There is a difference between these two using of the word cry. Now if we read your Bible Matthew 26:39-42, we can not say that Jesus (pbuh) never complained.

Matthew 26:39-42


39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter.

41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”


But if you read the life of Muhammad (pbuh), you cannot find even one complaining word of Muhammad (pbuh) about the mission (duty) that was given by God Al-Mighty.

3- "A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth."

This is true for all of the Prophets.


4- "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he had set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law."

Until "earth:"

Jesus (pbuh) couldn’t finish his mission which had continued only for ~3 years. He fell and was discouraged. (You will find many places in New Testament about this) and he couldn’t set judgment in the earth, because his followers were a few and they had little faith (you will find many places in New Testament about this). And yet they "forsook him and fled" at the time that Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus (pbuh) himself says "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence " John 18:36

But Muhammad established a state and ruled with his law that given by God. Therefore he set judgment in the earth and he did not fall and he was not discouraged.

After "earth:"


Here God says "his law", and in verse 9 says "former things come to pass". This means that he (new prophet) will bring new law. But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill". And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.

But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.

7- "To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

"To open blind eyes". If we read verse 19, we will see more clearly that the word "blind" is used as an idiom. It means he will show people the things that they did not know and will show people how to comprehend God and His message.

Prison is used as an idiom too. If a spirit doesn’t know God and doesn’t obey Him, then that spirit is in the prison of Satan, and that person is prisoner of Satan. By accepting oneness of God and by obeying Him, the spirit of a person will be free and this makes that person free from prison of Satan.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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--- Continued

And in verse 8 God clearly states what he means:

8- "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

(With explanation of verse 7) we understand that the person that God is talking about will come to a place that people worship idols as their gods. If we read verse 17, we may understand this better.

17 But those who trust in idols, who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’ will be turned back in utter shame.

From verses 7 and 8, we understand that God is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) came to Israelites and they were not worshipping idols. But Muhammad (pbuh) came during the “Jahilliya” (Age of Ignorance) period of Arabs and destroy the idols. Once again, look at verse 17.

9- "Behold, the former things come to pass, the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them."

As we read in verse 4 and my explanation of it, the person, God is talking about, will bring a new law. And this person cannot be Jesus (pbuh) because of the reasons stated above. This person is nobody but prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

10- "Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles and inhabitants thereof."

If you want to hear this new song please listen to someone reciting the Qur’an. The new song that God talking about is Noble Qur’an. If you hear how people recite the Noble Qur’an, you will understand what God is talking about.

11- "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains."

12- "Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the Islands."

Kedar is son of Ishmael (pbuh) (Genesis 25:13-16), and has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh). This verse (verse 11) is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). As you know Muhammad (pbuh) is descendent of Abraham (pbuh) through Ishmael (pbuh). And the cities that they inhabited are in Arabia, namely Telma (Tema/Teman), Yathrib (Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah), Paran (Makkah) etc. And if you observe the ritual of Muslims (especially during Hajj), you will see that cities (Makkah and Al-Madinah) lift up their voices** and people shout and glorify Allah from top of mountains, especially Mt. Arafat**. The rock is the rock that God sent to Adam from heaven, and it is located at the side of Kaba. As you know Muslim people make 7 tours around Kaba and kiss this rock while glorifying the Lord.

**in fact, you can see this in every Muslim country, when people are called to prayer, muezzins read the Adhan (calling to prayer) that sounds like a song. And even far from city you can hear this Adhan, it will look like that city lifted up its voice. Meaning of Adhan is:


Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

I bear witness that there is no god but Allah

I bear witness that there is no god but Allah

I bear witness that Muhammad is His messenger

Come to prayer, come to prayer

Come to salvation, come to salvation

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

There is no god but Allah.


15- "I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools."

In this verse, God is talking about deserts of Arabia. So, this verse has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

16"And I will bring blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked thins straight. These things I will do unto them, and not forsake them."

As God says above, He did not send to pagan Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh). Until Muhammad (pbuh), Arabs were worshipping idols, killing baby girls, drinking alcohol, gambling etc. Allah a way (Islam,unity of God) that they did not know, made Qur’an and Muhammad (pbuh) guided (as light before) them, and made crooked things (mentioned above) straight.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

17- "They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that they say to the molten images, Ye are our gods."

This is exactly what pagan Arabs did, when they heard the message that given to Muhammad (pbuh) by God. They offered money, authority and many things to our prophet and he did not accept any of them. They ashamed, because they thought that all other Arabs will mock them, and will not visit the Kaba (at that time they were using Kaba as place of the idols that all other Arab tribes were using) and this would be their economic end. And they turned graven images and they asked help from those images.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

edit on 24-4-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Isaiah 42:2-3 only proves that it cant be Jesus.

Because
a) Jesus made a big scene in public, flipping tables and whipping money changers.
b) Jesus did more than break off a bent reed.. he caused a perfectly fine fig tree to wilt.

Jesus had nothing to with Kedar and the wilderness... nor did he put the idolaters over there to shame.

Isaiah 42 foretells the coming of Mohammad.

Nice try.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CaptainNemo
 



The Bible explicitly says the lands of Kedar, not all of Arabia.

Just Kedar? Take another look at the verse..


11Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.


The wilderness means the barren deserts, like the "wilderness" that Hagar went into with Ishmael. So verse 11 pretty much covers the lands of the Arabs.



Should I give Mohammad a cookie for trying? He's too late because the prophecy had already been fulfilled.


I can give you a cookie for trying to be funny to avoid the facts.

Idolatry prevailed in the places mentioned in verse 11 until Mohammads arrival. It was only Mohammad who ended the culture of idolatry in those lands...thus fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah 42. .

Denying that Isaiah 42 points to Mohammad does you no good. If the bible is a book of prophecies, then it simply foretells of things to come. Whether you like those things or not is irrelevant. The bible is not your own personal magic mirror that speaks what YOU like to hear.


edit on 24-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


Nor is the Bible a gateway religion to Islam, Hindu, and Wiccan. Everytime somebody refutes you with ACTUAL historical and biblical evidence you change your story. Just a few posts ago you were trying to use Kedar as an example of all the lands of Arabia. Now that I've proved you wrong you're saying it's not.

"wilderness" isn't a proper noun. It's just a noun that means unformed land, and Isiah uses it pretty generously. Do yourself and count how many times he uses it in the sense you're applying it.

Isiah specifically states a type of desert dwelling people, the Kedar. Then he SPLITS his description with a semicolon, meaning everything after that is a description of it. You're arguing that Isiah spoke of lands that he knew no name for. There's absolutely no evidence to support your position. If this is your own fringe theory keep it to yourself.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 



Isiah specifically states a type of desert dwelling people, the Kedar.

Isaiah also mentions the "wilderness"... a generic term that can apply to any desert dwelling people in the middle east.


Nor is the Bible a gateway religion to Islam, Hindu, and Wiccan.

Im not saying it is.... Im reading the bible as a non-christian and a non-muslim. Just because the biblical truth points away from your own beliefs doesn't mean you can say its wrong.


Everytime somebody refutes you with ACTUAL historical and biblical evidence you change your story.

I have provided you with nothing but biblical evidence...if Isaiah 42 foretells the coming of Mohammad, then so be it. I'll go by what the bible says.
Also, you are yet to demonstrate that someone other than Mohammad ended Arabias culture of idolatry and shamed the idolaters,thereby fulfilling Isaiah 42:17.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





Isaiah also mentions the "wilderness"... a generic term that can apply to any desert dwelling people in the middle east.


EXACTLY! Isiah used a very specific people. It only works if YOU apply it to other peoples of the Middle East. Therefore it's not biblical evidence.



Im not saying it is.... Im reading the bible as a non-christian and a non-muslim. Just because the biblical truth points away from your own beliefs doesn't mean you can say its wrong.


I don't have a religion at all. I'm just reading the Bible and I'm telling you right now it doesn't say what you're interpreting. This is what you started the thread for right, to get feedback? Don't get your feelings hurt when confronted with the truth that Mohammad was a murderer, thief, greedy banker, and a pedophile. That makes him scum of the Earth in my book.

And can somebody please answer me this. What the hell did Mohammad ACTUALLY prophesize??!




Also, you are yet to demonstrate that someone other than Mohammad ended Arabias culture of idolatry and shamed the idolaters,thereby fulfilling Isaiah 42:17.


What's your credentials? Have you ever taken any old testamental classes? Or classes in Hebrew?



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 



What's your credentials? Have you ever taken any old testamental classes? Or classes in Hebrew?

I'm reading the bible in english.
If Hebrew/Old Testament classes are a pre-requisite to understand the bible, then dismiss 99% of bible readers.... at least the ones you encounter online.



EXACTLY! Isiah used a very specific people. It only works if YOU apply it to other peoples of the Middle East. Therefore it's not biblical evidence.


Its biblical evidence because Isaiah wrote about things that occured only after Mohammads arrival....

You are purposely ignoring the crucial prophecy about the idolaters being shamed. Which other biblical prophet shamed the idolaters of Kedar and the "wilderness"???
The answer : None. It was only Mohammad.

The jews and christians lived there for centuries before Mohammad, but did NOTHING to end the idolatry over there. It was only after Mohammad arrived that Arabias culture of polytheism and idolatry came to an end.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 


Way to not quote the rest of Matthew 15...

""Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour." - Matthew 15:27-28

Don't Muslims call Christians DOGS?! Didn't Mohammad give an order to eradicate everybody that wasn't Muslim?

Yet another paradox arises where God makes a prophet out of Isiah, and says one with the spirit in him shall come from Jewish blood for his chosen people and the gentiles. He then sends Mohammad down to denunciate the Bible, KILL the people he was sent for, and break almost every commandment.

Mohammad was a sick pervert. He should've been smeared off the face of the Earth years before his message condemned so many.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Also, I would like to mention a few other indications.

In Genesis, we see that Abraham had two wives, Sarah and Hagar;


Genesis 16:3 - So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.


And between them, brought forth two sons who were destined to be prophets, Ishmael and Isaac, of course, Ishmael being the first-born son who gains inheritance according to Jewish Law;


Deutoronomy 21:15-17

15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love,

16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.


Therefore, there were to be two lineages out of Abraham, both destined to be great nations. From Isaac ultimately arose Jesus, the Israeli lineage, and from Ishmael ultimately arose Muhammad, the Arab lineage.

The prophecy of Deutoronomy 18:18

There's a referance in the new testament to this. In John 1:20-21, John, without hesitation, admits that he is not the Christ. Then he also admits that he is not Elias. What should interest you is the next statement. He admits that he is not -that- prophet.


John 1:20-21 -

20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”
21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

He answered, “No.”


You cannot help but notice that there are three entities mentioned in this passage.

1) Christ (Jesus -peace be upon him-)
2) Elias
3) That Prophet

Therefore, the ultimate question is, who is that Prophet?

Argument One:

According to Christian Scholars such as C.I. Scofield, in his Bible studies, you'll find a referance note by the words "That Prophet", referring back to D. 18:18. Therefore, if D. 18:18 was referring to Jesus, then it would have made sense to insert the referance note by the word "The Christ" instead. If this being the case, then D. 18:18 could not have been referring to Jesus, but instead another prophet.

--- Will Continue later on.
edit on 24-4-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 





Mohammad was a sick pervert. He should've been smeared off the face of the Earth years before his message condemned so many.


If Mohammad was such a bad person... then why didn't God finish Mohammad before he established Islam? Answer me.

Was God too weak to stop Mohammad?
Or does God hate the Arabs so much that he let them become muslims so he could burn them in hell?



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 





Therefore, there were to be two lineages out of Abraham, both destined to be great nations. From Isaac ultimately arose Jesus, the Israeli lineage, and from Ishmael ultimately arose Muhammad, the Arab lineage.


I'm calling BS.



In my original paper, I set out to demonstrate that Ishmael was not the ancestor of Muhammad. I demonstrated that the biblical record does not agree with the Quran and Ahadith regarding Ishmael's alleged settlement in Mecca and purported marriage to a Jurhumite. I also demonstrated that the alleged genealogical records linking Muhammad to Ishmael are not only late, but directly contradict each other. Here, I seek to provide additional evidence from Muslim sources which clearly undermine the claim that Muhammad was an actual descendent of Ishmael. The following traditions demonstrate that even Muslims were unable to link Muhammad's lineage to Ishmael, going so far as to say that anyone claiming to be able to do so was a liar. This casts great doubt upon whether Muhammad was truly of the seed of Ishmael....Do notice the inherent contradictions of these traditions. First, none of the genealogical lists are uniform. Contradictions in the precise names and order of the names appear throughout these lists. Second, according to some traditions Ma‘add was a contemporary of the Lord Jesus. Yet, other traditions state that Ma‘add was a contemporary of Jeremiah and Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon, men who lived six centuries before Christ was even born!

Third, as we had already noted in our original paper, these lists trace Muhammad to different sons of Ishmael. Some lists trace him to Kedar (Qaydhar), the son of Ishmael. Others trace it back to Nebaioth (Nabit), not Kedar. Fourth, much confusion exists regarding the exact number of generations from Ishmael and Adnan.

Finally, the very candid and open admission by the writers that no one was able to definitely trace Muhammad's genealogy beyond Adnan serves to undermine the Muslim claim that Muhammad was an ACTUAL descendent of Ishmael.


So basically the Muslims would stone you if you questioned his lineage. That's scholarly merit for you.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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Also, I'd like to point out how fundamentalist christian sites like answering-islam deliberately leave out the part about the idolaters being shamed... while quoting other parts of Isaiah 42.

answering-islam.org...

The people who run this site know fully well that only Mohammad can take credit for ending idolatry and shaming the idol worshippers in the land of the wilderness and Kedar... yet, they hate to admit to the truth.

I'm currently running searches on google looking for a christian explanation of the idol worshippers being shamed...
edit on 24-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 


So, now I'll ask you the same thing I asked Skorpion (which he never answered):

What does this mean?

Genesis 17:

19) And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21) But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.


and what about Genesis 21:10-13?


10) Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12) And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13) And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

"FOR IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED" by God.

We already know what God had to say about Ishmael in Genesis 16:12:

12) And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Clearly, it was meant from the beginning for these descendants to fight each other as the Bible claims. I've already said that God made Muslim nations successful so they could build up their armies against Israel, who doesn't believe that Jesus is God either, except for the seed of Isaac will the truth come out, just as the Old Testament claims also.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 

Mohammad was a sick pervert. He should've been smeared off the face of the Earth years before his message condemned so many.


I'm assuming that your basis of this statement is derived from his sexual acts, since you said 'pervert'.

Prophet Mohammad's youngest and only virgin wife is Aisha (Aysha or Ayesha), the daughter of his closest companion. Her age at the time of marriage is uncertain. According to some narrations, she was 9 years old. Because she could have been as young as 9 years old, these days, some haters of Islam today say that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was a pedophile. However, according to alternative methods of calculating her age, she could have been 12 – 18 years old. What is certain is that he did reach her puberty and she was very happy in her marriage.

Most of the Hadith narrations mentioning her age was nine are reported through Hisham ibn Urwa while living in Iraq, where Hisham ibn Urwa is reported to have relocated after living in Madinah for seventy-one years. It is reported in one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Muhammad reports that Yaqub ibn Shaibah said, “narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq”. It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq. Another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Muhammad reports that when he was old, Hisham’s memory suffered quite badly.

We find evidence in both Hadith books and history books that indicates Aisha must have been older than nine when she got married:

- According to a hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

- Ibn Hisham’s version of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.

- Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am’s son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.

- Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr’s four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah (Pre-Islam Period), which has ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE.

- According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was thirty-five years old, meaning Aisha was born when he was forty years old, and thus 12-14 when Muhammad married at 52-54, from my knowledge (Forgot the exact age, my apologies. In a rush)

- According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah (Migration to Medina). However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an , was revealed, “I was a young girl”. The 54th Surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years, then her age at the time of marriage would be 14 to 21.

- According to almost all the historians, Asma the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as in Ibn Kathir's Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after migration of Muhammad when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after Migration to Medina, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of migration. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, if Aisha got married in year 1 AH or 2 AH (after Migration to Medina), she must have been between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Soo, I just get the sense that people who bash Islam pick 1 narration out of many that conradict it.



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