Mohammad - a perspective

reply to post by steve1709

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Ah... so it was the moon god who chose Abraham, saved Noah, gave the laws to Moses, sent Jesus etc. etc.
Interesting... I keep learning new things on ATS every day!

Originally posted by borntowatch
The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

What a sicko
Thats a religion for people with no standards

Muhammad married Aisha when he was fifty three years old and she was only six years old. He had intercourse with her when she was nine years old.

www.faithfreedom.org...

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

The Sahih Bukhari makes it clear that Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9 years old.

To be fair, the Sahih Bukhari Hadith is only holy to Sunni Muslims who make up about 85% of all Muslims worldwide.

By the way, don't shoot the messenger. The email was sent to me so I didn't want to edit it, just pass it on for you to have a look at. The idea that someone spouting a eligious dogma is one thing but when they believe that if one does not agree with them then they should be killed, rubbed out, annhialated (can't spell it) knocked off .... do you get the picture? then that idea is pathetic, wrong and just down ight bad. No one has the right to kill someone else because of their belief or lack there of. It's just so wrong on so many levels

Originally posted by steve1709
The idea that someone spouting a eligious dogma is one thing but when they believe that if one does not agree with them then they should be killed, rubbed out, annhialated (can't spell it) knocked off .... do you get the picture? then that idea is pathetic, wrong and just down ight bad. No one has the right to kill someone else because of their belief or lack there of. It's just so wrong on so many levels

To be fair only apostates from Islam, pagans, atheists, agnostics, Sikhs, Bahais, Mormons, and members of any other cults that have appeared since Muhammad's day are only offered the option of conversion to Islam or death.

Christians and Jews are allowed to just pay a heavy tribute to their Muslim overlords.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n
As a Christian I don't see Mohammad as a false prophet ,I don't see him as a prophet at all .. If you read the Bible you will see that God needs a large army of people to go against Israel at the end times ..Its not likely to be Christians so that might explain why Christianity is not allowed to grow in most of those places ..God not only made it difficult for Muslims to get saved,(although it is quite easy) but for the Jews as well ...And when you say except Christianity I assume you mean the religion ..But the fact of the matter is that religion doesn't save its Jesus Christ that is the way ...peace

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Maybee Muhamad (mpasbuh) had satan on his side perhaps Mo was the yin to Jesus's yang
who knows but to call Islam the religion of peace is a but far fetched IMHO

reply to post by the2ofusr1


So you are basically saying that God set the muslims up....?
Amazing.

reply to post by darthdamo74

Maybee Muhamad (mpasbuh) had satan on his side perhaps Mo was the yin to Jesus's yang
who knows but to call Islam the religion of peace is a but far fetched IMHO

Basically, if its something you dont agree with, it had to have come from the devil.
Heard that one before.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by darthdamo74

 

Maybee Muhamad (mpasbuh) had satan on his side perhaps Mo was the yin to Jesus's yang
who knows but to call Islam the religion of peace is a but far fetched IMHO

Basically, if its something you dont agree with, it had to have come from the devil.
Heard that one before.

Christian (I will die for what I believe in ) Muslim (you will die for what I believe in )
Christianity has evolved IE the new testament Islam hasnt and never will Islam is not tolerant to other religions women homosexualls ect ect to say it is something I dont agree with is an understatment

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


God used other countries to take Israel into captivity in the past ,and to punish them ..Babylon , Assyria ,Egypt .He used the Romans to distroy the temple in 70 AD.

Originally posted by darthdamo74
Christianity has evolved IE the new testament Islam hasnt and never will Islam is not tolerant to other religions women homosexualls ect ect to say it is something I dont agree with is an understatment

The problem with Islam is that Muslims hold values that are sometimes greatly at odds with Western Values.

For instance,

When 500 British Muslims were interviewed, none believed that homosexual acts were acceptable.

Only 3% of UK Muslims believed that sex between unmarried people was acceptable.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Many Muslims support the death penatly for leaving Islam

Level of Support for Death Penalty for Leaving Islam

Turkey 5%
Egypt 84%
Jordan 86%
Lebanon 6%
Indonesia 30%
Pakistan 76%
Nigeria 51%

PewGlobal

A survey on attitudes by UK Muslim students also reveal deep seated differences between Islamic and Western Values

• 40% want Sharia law introduced into British Law for Muslims.

• 33% want the introduction of a worldwide Caliph, while 25% are opposed. 41% are not sure.

• 59% felt it was important that women wear the hijab but only 31% felt a women should be forced to wear one.

• 40% felt than men and women should not be allowed to associate freely together, while 12% were not sure.

• 32% felt it could be justifiable to kill in the name of religion.

• 57% fell that Muslims serving on the UK armed forces should have the right to opt out if the British army is fighting in a Muslim country.

• 16% felt the punishment that Gillian Gibbons received (the British teacher in Sudan who was sent to prison for 15 days after naming a teddy-bear ‘Mohammed’) was just right or not harsh enough. 19% were not sure.

today.yougov.co.uk...

To get back to the OP, Islam claims superiority over Jews and Christians as Muslims think of Muhammad as the last prophet.

Why is this

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Regardless of what people think of Mohammad and Islam, its undisputable that Mohammad utterly changed the face of Arabia. He put an end to the culture of idolatry, polytheism and paganism that prevailed in Arabia.... and established a monotheistic religion that directs all worship to the One true God and recognizes and honors the biblical prophets and Jesus.

considered a plus?

Because I thought muslims where into - Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion (or something like that) so why pick on idolaters, polytheists and pagans?

The problem with Islam is that Muslims hold values that are sometimes greatly at odds with Western Values


good point so If muslims stay in the middle east africans stay in africa and Europeans stay in Europe then we could all learn from each others cultures and maybee one day we could achieve peace yes the west have made mistakes in the past Imperialism and such but we cannot carry on the way we are National socialism would be a good start IMO

Originally posted by darthdamo74

good point so If muslims stay in the middle east africans stay in africa and Europeans stay in Europe then we could all learn from each others cultures and maybee one day we could achieve peace yes the west have made mistakes in the past Imperialism and such but we cannot carry on the way we are National socialism would be a good start IMO

I'm not sure about National socialism but it is true that Western values, being largely post Christian enlightenment based differ greatly from Muslims values which are largely still stuck in the 7th century.

What is interesting is that political correctness dictates that all cultures are equal and to state that you prefer your own culture is considered, according to PC dogma, bigoted and racist.

Hence Western people who reject Islamic values that dictate homosexuality and sex between unmarried people is both a crime and a sin, people who leave Islam should be put to death, people should be prevented by law from insulting Islam and Muslims should even be allowed to have sex with 9 years (as Muhammad did as revealed in the Hadith, blessed be his name) are quite simply Islamophobes!

Yet the OP's second question

2. If christianity is the true path, then why didn't God allow for christianity to prevail in the middle east, instead of having Mohammad show up and spread Islam, which you see as a false religion.

If reversed to question Islam and Muhammad, would if asked in a Muslim dominated country, land the asker of the question in prison.

Pakistan: Cleric Affirms Death Penalty for Insulting Islam.

expressbuzz.com...

American on Trial for Insulting Islam (Indonesia)

www.thejakartaglobe.com...

Kuwait Seeks Interpol Arrest for Insulting Prophet's Wife

www.alarabiya.net...

reply to post by ollncasino


Thanks for taking the time to type out a long reply.
But you also stated earlier that you were an atheist.

The three questions of the OP was directed towards christians. I'd like to hear their take on it... from a religious perspective.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I agree 100% actually,

This is all part of the Masters plan for a reason....

If Islam wasn't around, we wouldn't have all the modern prophecies being fulfilled by Islamic nations and Islamic Extremeist groups,

And no, YHVH doesn't send Muslims to hell just because there religion has some false theology behind it, he forgives, and judges according to deeds....

Do i belive a faithful Muslim who lived a good life raised a family and was a generally decent person goes to heaven? Absolutely, yes.

Do I believe a faithful Muslim (or unfaithful) who turns into a suicide bomber or extremist jihadist goes to Paradise? No, I believe they are destined for the darker realms of Sheol....

Good post,

S&F

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

1. If you believe Mohammad was a false prophet, then why did God allow him success and thereby letting Islam emerge in the middle east?

Where is the proof that 'God' allowed Mohammad to do anything?
In fact where is the proof that 'God' allowed anyone to do anything.

And isn't free will a basic tenet of all Abrahamic faiths?

Free will, according to Islamic doctrine is the main factor for man's accountability in his/her actions throughout life. All actions taken by man's free will are said to be counted on the Day of Judgement because they are his/her own and not God's

en.wikipedia.org...

2. If christianity is the true path, then why didn't God allow for christianity to prevail in the middle east, instead of having Mohammad show up and spread Islam, which you see as a false religion.

Conversely why did 'God' allow Christianity to prevail in 'the west' whereas regardless of what many would have you believe Islam is still very much a minority religion in Europe, North and South America, China etc?

3. If you believe muslims will never be saved unless they accept christianity, then doesn't it mean that God made it difficult for muslims to be saved? Because as you know, muslims are rather strict about religion and will not simply "accept Jesus as lord" just because they read it in a tract. So, why did God put muslims in a difficult situaton?

But neither will Christians convert to Islam just because it's written in The Koran that Mohammed is a prophet and Islam is the true religion.

Personally I'm Agnostic, but I can't believe for one minute that if there is a 'God', and it's a mighty big IF, that events in this world are down to what 'he' does or doesn't 'allow'.
If so then he must be a pretty perverse sort of being for allowing so much evil and hurt.

reply to post by ollncasino

Originally posted by ollncasino
The 72 Virgins notion has its origins in the Qur’an.

Although the holy book does not specify the number as 72, it does say that those who fight in the way of Allah and are killed will be given a great reward. It goes on to stipulate that Muslims will be awarded with women in Islamic heaven. It even describes their physical attributes—large eyes (Q 56:22) and big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (Q 78:33). Hadith 2687 is where the number 72 is mentioned.

IslamQuotes

So Muslims who die in jihad can look forward to 72 virgins with big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (to quote the Koran).

"To quote the Quran"? Sorry, no. There is no basis for "72 virgins" anywhere in the Quran. Nothing about big or firm or round or swelling or sagging. It is a fantasy akin to Christians believing they'll ascend to heaven with harps on clouds once they die. In fact, you know, the only time I've anyone ever seems to even mention 72 virgins is when someone wants to mock Islam with such nonsense.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Yet to quote Muhammad

"I was ordered to fight all men until they say 'There is no god but Allah."

Prophet Muhammad's farewell address, March 632

Islamic Imperialism: A History by Efraim Karsh

yalepress.yale.edu...

There is no such quote anywhere in the farewell address. In fact, the way you have phrased it, there is no such quote anywhere at all (except perhaps in the minds of anti-islamists).

reply to post by steve1709

Steve, you might just be the messenger, but in that case, this so-called message of yours is utter nonsense, not to mention bigoted.
1) Allah is not a moon god
2) Christians and Jews (and many other religions) all believe that theirs is the only acceptable religion. Are they bad Australians/Britons/Americans as well?
3) What has allegiance to the five pillars (belief in one God, prayer, fasting, giving charity and performing pilgrimage) got that goes against being good Australians/Britons/Americans?
4) "Allegiance is to Mecca"? What does that even mean? They pray in that direction, yes. Should they pray towards Sydney?
5) Only according to some interpretations.
6) Must submit to the mullahs? Says who? And sorry, mullahs aren't "religious leaders".
7) Muslims aren't "instructed" to marry 4 wives. Under certain circumstances, with certain requirements fulfilled, they are PERMITTED to marry up to four wives. And there is no talk of scourging anybody.
8) Many Australians would strongly deny that the Australian Constitution has anything Biblical about it. Besides, the constitution permits freedom of religion, so that makes no difference.
9) Wrong
10) Wrong again. One of the 99 names is "Al-Wudud" i.e. "The Loving".

reply to post by babloyi


I did a quick look on google and found


QUR’AN 55:70-77 mentions Houris – (where we get the word whore) all laying around on green cushions

or

The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: "The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]"
Sunan At-Tirmidhi, 4:21:2687

Abu Umama narrated: "The Messenger of God said, 'Everyone that God admits into paradise will be married to 72 wives; two of them are houris and seventy of his inheritance of the [female] dwellers of hell. All of them will have libidinous sex organs and he will have an ever-erect penis.' "
Sunan Ibn Maja, Zuhd (Book of Abstinence) 39

And you can also have some pearly boys?

(QUR’AN 52:24): “And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls.”
(QUR’AN 56:17): “They will be served by immortal boys.”
(QUR’AN 76:19): “And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.”

So how is it heaven for all these Houris and pearly boys?

Wow didnt old Muhammad make it great for all the Arabs.
They are still killing each other by the score and everyone else for disagreeing with them.
I wouldnt go to any Arab country for quids, even with all the weapons in the world.
Them Arabs are always on a bloodfest.