Who are the Fascists?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


What I don't believe is a pure form of anything. With personal agenda comes impure motivations and inconsistencies, tainting the original idea.

Originally posted by neo96

Fascism seeks to purify the nation of foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.[5]

That sounds familiar foreign money going to the elections.

You might want to read that again. It said fascism seeks to purify (as in, remove) foreign influences; and then you mention how much foreign money is going to the elections. In other words, the opposite of the fascist modus operandi is occurring.

Fascism promotes political violence and war, as forms of direct action that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.

Sounds like OWS

Can you explain to me how OWS promotes war?

Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violence against opponents or to overthrow a political system.[

Like the black panthers,code pink most recently OWS.

The Black Panthers I can see, in terms of violence. Code Pink I don't really know anything about, although I'm told that they are a feminist group, so admittedly I would be inclined to expect aggression from them, although probably not outright violence. Feminists like being able to claim that it is exclusively men who are violent, which means they need to avoid using it themselves.

I've seen conservative claims of Occupy being violent, but I've never really seen any direct evidence of it, aside from said claims themselves, although there is Breitbart's footage.

Fascism claims to represent a synthesis of cohesive ideas previously divided between traditional political ideologies.[9] To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[1

Fascism is a terminal sociopolitical disease. We saw an example of the terminal phase at Auschwitz.

The fascist party is a vanguard party designed to initiate a revolution from above and to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[11] The fascist party and state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the party, the government and other state institutions.

Fascism was one side of the pincer movement which the Illuminati initially tried to use against the global population during WW2. The idea has always been to have two alternatives for the people to choose from; Fascism/Capitalism, and Socialism/Communism. Both of them are ultimately bogus, and lead to people unknowingly serving the cabal's goals.

Fascists advocate a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation, the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient, and autarky. It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers because it deems these acts as prejudicial to the national community.[17]

Hitler's solution to Germany's economic problems was to put most people in the army. Up until the time of the war itself, the plan actually worked well; in purely economic terms, that is. A soldier has everything provided to him by the state. You don't need to pay him much over and above that, either; because he has little to no use for the money.

Originally posted by antonia

Considering Hitler actively hunted and killed socialists in Germany, I think you are confused. If he was a socialists why did he hate socialists so much?

Makes no sense, but then again you never do.

Obviously you have no idea about the history of socialists/communists.

Did you not know that Stalin, and other socialists/communists, hunted and ordered the death of other socialists/communists because they had different ideas on socialism/communism?...

One of the people he ordered to be executed by communist forces loyal to Stalin was Trosky... There is even the idea by some historians that Stalin also ordered the poisoning of Lenin.

Here is what Trosky wrote about the attempts on his life by the hand of communist loyalists to Stalin...

Leon Trotsky

Stalin Seeks My Death

Written:24 May, 1940
First Published: The Fourth International, Vol. 2 No. 7, August 1941, pages 201-207
Translated: By The Fourth International
Transcription/HTML Markup: David Walters
Copyleft: Leon Trotsky Internet Archive (www.marxists.org) 2008. Permission is granted to copy and/or distribute this document under the terms of the Creative Commons License [You can freely copy, distribute, and display this work; as well as make derivative and commercial works. Please credit the Leon Trotsky Internet Archive as your source, include the url to this work, and note the transcribers & proofreaders above.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following article, now published for the first time, was written by Trotsky two weeks after the May 24, 1940 attempt to assassinate him. As the article relates, Stalin’s GPU was able to bring powerful pressure on the Mexican police to steer Its investigation away from the GPU murder band which had attempted to kill Trotsky. Shortly after this article was written, however, the investigation was brought back on the right track. Our press at the time published all the details of how the police arrested David Serrano, David Alfaro Siquieiros and a score of other Stalinists; how some of them confessed their complicIty, and the guilt of the Stalinist murder machine was established.

For reasons best known to themselves, the Mexican authorities have not yet completed their case against the GPTJ band. According to Mexican law, the investigating judge is required to complete his investigation and hand down a verdict within a year’s time. Although Slqueiros admitted his participation in the attack upon Trotsky’s house, he and the GPU found judges who released him on the ground that he was not seeking to murder Trotsky! The others are still in prison. Similar delay is occurring in the case of “Frank Jacson,” the GPU assassin who succeeded In striking the death-blow on August 20, 1940.

Trotsky’s article gives us his own description of the May 24th attempt on his life and of the events of the next two weeks. Another article by Trotsky on the attempt was “The Comintern and the GPU” published in the November, 1940 Issue of FOURTH INTERNATIONAL.
...

www.marxists.org...

Did this make Stalin any less communist than he was?...

Hitler, and Mussolini were not the only leftwingers who sought the death of other leftwingers because they had different ideas on socialism/communism.

Another example I can give you is what I know about Cuba's history. For example, Camilo Cienfuegos(who was an anarchist/socialist) arrested Huber Matos, former socialist revolutionary, after he resigned his post because fidel castro did nothing when Matos argued that the 26th of July Movement (socialist party) was being infiltrated by communists. Castro claimed at first he was a socialist, when in fact he was a full fledged communist.

Eight days later Camilo Cienfuegos's Cessna supposedly dissapeared at night. But the thing is that many people in Cuba were fond of Camilo, more so than of fidel castro, and castro though that Camilo could take the leadership from him.

If you get to be very good friends with a Cuban and you ask him/her how, or who killed Camilo Cienfuegos he/she will tell you under the orders of castro he died.

Many socialists who fought with castro thinking he was only a socialist, and not a full fledged communist turned against castro after he announced that Cuba was communist. At first he announced that Cuba was socialist...

There is a LOOOOOONG history of socialists/communists turning against other socialists/communists... That fact didn't make them any less socialist/communist...

Originally posted by Cosmic911

What I don't believe is a pure form of anything. With personal agenda comes impure motivations and inconsistencies, tainting the original idea.

Oh boy... That is the reason why there are so many different branches of socialism... But even when the "original ideas" were tried out it only brought death and destruction to the nation that embraced those ideas...

Isn't about friggen enough that over 110-120 or more million people have died because of leftwing ideologies in about 80 years?...

That's without counting the millions more imprisoned in gulags, concentration camps, indoctrination camps etc because they wouldn't accept the idea of socialism/communism...

You think Hitler was the only socialist to hate Jewish people?... Marx and Engels HATED TO DEATH Jewish people. You should read some of their writtings on the subject...

Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by sonnny1
Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power. ~ Benito Mussolini

General Motors agrees...........

You do realize that definition from Il Duce wasn't referring to business corporations don't you?

hmmmm.....

Mussolini allowed huge amount of money to be spent on public works and toward the heavy industry and a growing “military industrial complex”. However, Mussolini who at the onset privatized a great number of state owned assets, later began reverting these policies and demanded strict centralized control over the country’s industries. Likewise, laws enacted by Congress in the past two decades have been substantially more valuable to big business.

The gradual erosion of antitrust legislation resulted in corporate mergers and consolidation. Ironically it took a Democratic President ─Bill Clinton─ to repeal federal antitrust laws that had been in place since the Great Depression. A similar cartelization process that made fascism possible in Italy was sealed in the US in 1988. Executive Order 12631–Working Group on Financial Markets (WGFM) ─also known as the Plunge Protection Team (PPT)─ decreed by President Reagan set a blueprint for the merger between the Security and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission ─or their “designees”─ with the FED and the Secretary of the Treasury ─or their “designees”.

The decree allied corporate and political elites into a single controlling body with covert powers over key financial and futures markets. Irrevocably altering the healthy separation between Wall Street and Washington and making the coronation of US corporate kingdoms inevitable.

Corporatism

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Talking to you is truly a waste of my time. No matter how many facts you are presented you still make the same fallacious arguments.

Ok we get it, all left wingers are evil baby killers. What are you gonna do about it?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


You think Hitler was the only socialist to hate Jewish people?... Marx and Engels HATED TO DEATH Jewish people. You should read some of their writtings on the subject...

edit on 22-4-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Marx was a Jew, try again.

Originally posted by antonia

Talking to you is truly a waste of my time. No matter how many facts you are presented you still make the same fallacious arguments.

Ok we get it, all left wingers are evil baby killers. What are you gonna do about it?

edit on 22-4-2012 by antonia because: added something

OOOH, I get it, so when you are proved to be wrong "it is a waste of time"... Right...got it...

YOU didn't present any facts I did... Just because Hitler went against other socialists didn't make him any less socialist, just like just because Stalin ordered the death of Trosky (another communist in case you didn't know) didn't make Stalin any less communist... Socialists/communists have a long history of turning against each other, this fact doesn't make them any less socialist/communist...

BTW, I didn't say all leftwingers are "evil baby killers" THAT'S the fallacious argument... But maybe when you understand that giving up individual freedoms for the good of "the collective, earth or what-have-you" takes away individual freedom, which in essence takes away the individual freedoms of EVERYONE perhaps you will understand why leftwing ideologies tend to become evil when practiced on a nation.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by LErickson

 

What have i made up?

Make the claim back it up and add some substance to the thread instead of taking pot shots at posters.

edit on 22-4-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Oh please do go on about the fairness doctrine and how Democrats are implementing it or pushing for it then.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


YOU didn't present any facts I did... Just because Hitler went against other socialists didn't make him any less socialist, just like just because Stalin ordered the death of Trosky (another communist in case you didn't know) didn't make Stalin any less communist... Socialists/communists have a long history of turning against each other, this fact doesn't make them any less socialist/communist...

Nope, you presented your opinion. The opinion being shoved out by many right wing think tanks trying revise history. Hitler hated Marx and socialists (Go read Mein Kampf, he says so). Fascism was never defined as socialism. It was always defined as the authoritarian right wing. Them's the fact. They've been the fact for 50 years. You don't get to change them just cause you hate the lefties.

Originally posted by xuenchen
The Fairness Doctrine is real, Doctor.

So is mass murder but that does not mean Democrats are taking part in it.
I did not say he made up the fairness doctrine. You need to read his post and tell me what it says ABOUT the fairness doctrine that I was pointing out is fallacious.

Jesus Christ it gets tiring holding your hand all the time.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Ok, let me clarify. I don't believe a lot of the historical figures we've mentioned in this thread are purists. If we look at people like Hitler and Stalin, they allowed personal ambition and agenda to cloud them.

Originally posted by antonia

Marx was a Jew, try again.

edit on 22-4-2012 by antonia because: opps

Ooooh, I see... and there aren't Jews who hate other Jews?...

"What is the basis of Judaism? A practical passion and greed for profit. To what can we reduce his (the Jew's) religious worship? To extortion. What is his real God? Cash!" - Karl Marx, founder of Communism, quoted in the British Guardian, July-August, 1924.

YOU try again...

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yes it is and THIS is why. It's not conservatism. It's not liberalism. Or any other "ism". It's those that care not about any ideology, only about power and money. It doesn't matter who is in the WH. Who's controlling Congress. Eisenhower warned us over 50 years ago and we didn't listen.

i agree with you, all the rest of this nonsense is to keep small minds busy. magicians have used the tactic for centuries.

Originally posted by antonia

Nope, you presented your opinion. The opinion being shoved out by many right wing think tanks trying revise history. Hitler hated Marx and socialists (Go read Mein Kampf, he says so). Fascism was never defined as socialism. It was always defined as the authoritarian right wing. Them's the fact. They've been the fact for 50 years. You don't get to change them just cause you hate the lefties.

I didn't present any opinion... I presented FACTS... I PROVED that just because a socialist hated other socialists with different ideas doesn't make him any LESS socialist... I posted EVIDENCE something obviously you become blind to... The only people who have been claiming fascism is rightwing for decades are LEFTWINGERS...

Perhaps in your hardhead "NATIONAL SOCIALISM" is rightwing, but even the word NAZI is an abbreviation of NATIONAL SOCIALISM...

Hitler introduced "social reforms" and other socialist programs... We can even read straight from HItler's hand what he truly was...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

...
Hitler was intent on having a community of mutual interest that desired mutual success instead of one that was divided over the control of money or differing values.

THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST -
THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

But I guess that makes him a rightwinger to the likes of you...

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by ILikeStars

 

hmmm

Obama 1 term so far
Bush 2
Clinton 2
Bush 1
Regan 2
Carter 1

there is 6 terms 3 for 3

I didn't know Obama's term was already finished. I said 5 out of the last 7 terms. LAST SEVEN TERMS:

G.W. Bush
G.W. Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Bush
Reagan
Reagan

5 out of the last 7 terms of office. Not counting the present term, because it is not a past term of office, it is a present term of office.

Originally posted by neo96

Fascism (play /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline, indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics.[3][4

Sounds like a certain group and the current potus, community organizer that believes in birth control and abortion which also controls mass media from schools and universities to hollywood and television

Fascism seeks to purify the nation of foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.[5]

That sounds familiar foreign money going to the elections.

Fascism promotes political violence and war, as forms of direct action that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.

Sounds like OWS

Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violence against opponents or to overthrow a political system.[

Like the black panthers,code pink most recently OWS.

Fascism opposes multiple ideologies: conservatism, liberalism, and two major forms of socialism—communism and social democracy.[8]

Liberalism in American today is the antithesis of the word

Fascism claims to represent a synthesis of cohesive ideas previously divided between traditional political ideologies.[9] To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[1

You mean like Pelosi and schummers "the first amendment needs to be fixed" and the famous "Fox News" needs to be taken off the air.

The fascist party is a vanguard party designed to initiate a revolution from above and to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[11] The fascist party and state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the party, the government and other state institutions.

The current potus has bypassed congress many times during the last 3 years with his appoints of czars to the care act. and dictating ceo pay.

Fascism rejects liberal democracy based upon majority rule and the parliamentary system but fascists deny that they are against democracy as a whole.[

Why yes they do all i have heard is how obstructionsit the house Gop is.

Fascism condemns liberal democracy for basing government legitimacy on quantity rather than quality, and for causing quarreling partisan politics.

The gop are "Flat earthers" etc anyone who questions the actions of the current government questioning just throwing billions upon billions just to hit something and hope it sticks.

Green corporate loans,the Gm volts etc.

Fascists claim that their ideology is a trans-class movement, advocating resolution to domestic class conflict within a nation to secure national solidarity.[15] It claims that its goal of social nationalization of society emancipates the nation's proletariat, and promotes the assimilation of all classes into proletarian national culture.[15] While fascism opposes domestic class conflict, fascism believes that bourgeois-proletarian conflict primarily exists in national conflict between proletarian nations versus bourgeois nations; fascism declares support for the victory of proletarian nations.[16]

Sounds familiar "the rich should pay their fair share"

Fascists advocate a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation, the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient, and autarky. It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers because it deems these acts as prejudicial to the national community.[17]

WE know who believes the governemnt should control the economy and corporations the difference here is they support the criminalization of anyone who makes a profit.


en.wikipedia.org...

So with reference to fascism while it is always associated to the right wing the simple fact is fascism :

Fascism is commonly described as "extreme right"[38][39] although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[40] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.[32] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[33][34]

Revolutionary centrist doctrine sounds like hope and change,progessives and how they achieve their goals.

Seriously, this is one of the most ridiculously uninformed/misinformed/deliberately misleading OPs I've ever seen on ATS; not an easy accomplishment.

reply to post by neo96


Sir you live in Fascists America and have for some time.

Romney and Obama are two sides of the same coin! Your dear democracy is a sham!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You need an ID to walk down the street, but you do not need one to vote?

*yawn*

blah blah blah, commie, fascist - throw it all out there, because TPTB are behind all of it - making sure they get everyone from both sides.....Bush this, Obama that - oh look, Romney - same crap, different pile. Nothing is going to "change" with the next election. Romney is the same as Obama, so if that is all we have to chose from - then accelerate your prepping.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by neo96

 

quote from NEO96s avatar,

inevitability: the knowledge that no
matter what you do the rest of your life,
youll never be as cool as corperate overlord

i wounder if irony really covers this op from a person who sees corperate over lords as "cool"

sounds to me like you have been sent hear on behalf of your "cool" overlords to make us love our servatude to the corperate overlords.

AGAIN
fashism is,
the 1% writing legislation to be passed by bought politicians,
that seves a small corperate interest, (money)
over the wants and needs of the people.

sounds to me like you like corperations writting legislation

xploder

Great ad hominem attack about a poster and really are they to ignorant to see that it was a joke with regards to the avatar


Elected congressman write the laws of this land.