Atheist, deharmonizing the harmony of the spheres

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Annee

 

I was responging to

""I was raised Christian - - but never valued life as much as I do as Atheist."

on what you said here...

"It's all on me - - my responsibility. There is no "go to guy" - - or reward at the end. Every thing is Now."

I don't see Christianity as a throw away of personal responsibility. Far from it. In fact, it's pure self responsibility.

So - instead of reading at face value - - - you Chose to interpret from your own mind a different meaning.

I was Christian. Don't tell me what a Christian is.

Have you been Atheist?

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by paradox

 

First of all, you don't see illogic in what you claimed? religion is illogical therefore I can bash it. That has NO roots in any logic or reason whatsoever. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

I feel if people who believe, and militantly defend lack of logic and reason, are offended by what I say, then oh well. I did not say anything besides that the bible is a book of fairy tales, and is illogical.

These are truths.

Secondly, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to discuss a particular topic, we can, but you just threw out Christian claims and asked me to prove them. Which obviously I cannot do in the same sense of someone proving if your grandfather actually wore a certain pair of pants without a shadow of a doubt.

I asked where in reality that has ever happened.
Just as I figured, you can not point out an example. There are no such things as "miracles" as they are depicted in the bible.

But here's the deal. Don't you think that if God is real, he can defy nature?

No. Nature has rules and laws. This is where science comes in handy!

You ask about when these miracles etc occured elsewhere in history. Well, they wouldn't be miracles if they happened everyday. So you're logic in the question is wrong. That's like saying you can't prove George Washington was the first president of the US because no one else has ever been the first president of the US. Do you see the lacking in logic there?

I find it funny how you keep comparing two unalike things in order to make it seem like I am not making sense. There is absolutely no comparison between asking to prove these 'miracles' are physically possible/are documented anywhere outside of the Bible, and proving George Washington was the first president.

I see you also strayed away from the question of philosophical truths in those stories.
Do go on.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

post your facts please... do you have any evidence to support your claims?

no problem

In 2009, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press polled members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science on belief in a higher power. The study found that 51 percent of members polled expressed such a faith, compared to 95 percent of the American public. Additionally, the National Academy of Science charted belief in God as low as 5.5 percent among biologists and 7.5 percent among physicist and astronomers in a 1998 study

so, ya. 5.5 to 7.5% is a bit low
Source
Keep in mind, higher power != God...Hell, I believe in higher powers (super advanced aliens, deity-like beings, etc..just a belief though...could be wrong)

is this all you atheist have? other peoples words and actions...

Ya, and studies, statistics, etc...aka, proof.
All you theists have is just..erm..some imaginings of some dudes thousands of years ago with no evidence.
I would venture to say the logic, reason, evidence, and statistics outweighs that in any case being discussed.

the folks who have advanced the world tenfold in history which have helped form our modern western world have been the religious martyrs. (which I don't need to name)

edit on 21-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Actually, it may help to name names. Religious martyrs? They died to further their religion? Sure..name some, and make sure to name them that died or whatever because of their religion.
aka, don't say Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. because he did not die for his religion..he died because of racial politics...and he wasn't trying to bring forth christianity to America, he was fighting against those whom would deny civil rights.

he just happened to also be christian...but that is not a factor in his motivation.

So ya...name off these religious martyrs that have done wonderful things in making the west where we are today.

reply to post by Annee


i don't know about the stats claimed there, but I do know one thing...

theism vs atheism

theism (there is a god)

a-theism (lack of god)

There is a dichotomy there. One really does oppose another. Now when I say oppose, I mean the beliefs are not capable of comprimise. In other words, somebody is wrong about the state of our reality.

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Annee

 

i don't know about the stats claimed there, but I do know one thing...

theism vs atheism

theism (there is a god)

a-theism (lack of god)

There is a dichotomy there. One really does oppose another. Now when I say oppose, I mean the beliefs are not capable of comprimise. In other words, somebody is wrong about the state of our reality.

One has nothing to do with the other.

They are independent of each other.

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by paradox

 

First of all, you don't see illogic in what you claimed? religion is illogical therefore I can bash it. That has NO roots in any logic or reason whatsoever. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

I feel if people who believe, and militantly defend lack of logic and reason, are offended by what I say, then oh well. I did not say anything besides that the bible is a book of fairy tales, and is illogical.

These are truths.

You are rejecting the Bible on philosophical grounds. But you made something very clear in that statement there...you said, you "FEEL if people who believe, and militantly defend lack of logic and reason (which I am not doing at all...so that's an ad hominem attack) are offended by what I say, then oh well" (I am not offended) By you stating you feel, you are taking raeson and logic right out of the equation. Is logic and reason based on feelings? I thought that's what religion constantly gets bashed for?

Secondly, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to discuss a particular topic, we can, but you just threw out Christian claims and asked me to prove them. Which obviously I cannot do in the same sense of someone proving if your grandfather actually wore a certain pair of pants without a shadow of a doubt.

I asked where in reality that has ever happened.
Just as I figured, you can not point out an example. There are no such things as "miracles" as they are depicted in the bible.

But here's the deal. Don't you think that if God is real, he can defy nature?

No. Nature has rules and laws. This is where science comes in handy!

THERE YOU GO. Science relies on the constants and quantities of math and logic. To say they prove it would be arguing in a circle. No amount of science can show how those constants and quantities of math and logic got there, because you need them to prove science.

You ask about when these miracles etc occured elsewhere in history. Well, they wouldn't be miracles if they happened everyday. So you're logic in the question is wrong. That's like saying you can't prove George Washington was the first president of the US because no one else has ever been the first president of the US. Do you see the lacking in logic there?

I find it funny how you keep comparing two unalike things in order to make it seem like I am not making sense. There is absolutely no comparison between asking to prove these 'miracles' are physically possible, and proving George Washington was the first president.

I see you also strayed away from the question of philosophical truths in those stories.

Another dodge from the argument I made?
Do go on.

edit on 4-21-12 by paradox because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Helmkat

in my book a chimp is a step up from a chump...

I'm just a theist, I believe in a higher power... and in the case of an atheist that higher power is a fist

I have no religious affiliation or claims, only faith...

reply to post by Jordan River

So you pretty much woreship the ideas of hitler, so you killed about 1.5(idk the numbers) million jews, you bastard lol

Hitler was not an atheist.. he often associated himself and his actions with god. he believed the extermination of the jews was 'gods will'..

reply to post by Annee


I grew up atheist

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


Hitler was way into the occult. You're right he wasn't atheist, but that doesn't mean he was a Christian either. He used Christianity as a platform to sway the masses to his agenda.

Hitler was an occultist. That's for certain.

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Annee

 

I grew up atheist

Uh huh.

You will need to explain.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

maybe I could have put this in the rant section... then again atheist love to invade our turf and attack my brethren and sisters.

I am an atheist and find myself often in religious threads.. i am fascinated by religion, yet choose to be atheist. i do not see it as attacking your 'brethren and sisters' i am simply attempting to help you religious folk realize what you believe is wrong.. but yes, i do "love to invade your turf."

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

 

Hitler was way into the occult. You're right he wasn't atheist, but that doesn't mean he was a Christian either. He used Christianity as a platform to sway the masses to his agenda.

Hitler was an occultist. That's for certain.

And why does extension of interest/belief - - exclude anyone from Christianity?

Hitler was Catholic. They use all kinds of symbolism and rituals.

Occult means clandestine, hidden, secret. Its not exactly something evil.

all this thread does is show how weird and delusional religious people are, their beliefs are bizarre and insane and have no logic or proof behind them, yet they act like an illusion is absolute fact and no other option or explanation is valid.

Very strange behaviour

reply to post by Equ1nox


so quick to judge are we? I believe my belief in God and a Christian God are totally rooted in logic. We can go through them if you'd like...although I gotta get going soon...

PM me if you want to continue the convo. And I will also be on later.

Originally posted by Mkoll
Not all atheists are like that and not all theists are like that. It depends on the person and if the person is a self-righteous jerk he is a self righteous jerk regardless of what he believes

edit on 21-4-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

You are officially the first person in this thread to make any sort of sense. There are completely illogical, unreasonable people on both sides of the argument. This thread is a prime example as it's mostly been mudslinging and opinions-as-fact attitudes from people on both sides. Lesson, both sides can be just as bad.

Also, people have been killing for stupid reasons that have nothing to do with religion for as long as humanity has existed. I would guess that those cases far outweigh anything that religion has been a part of. Has anyone done a study on that?

reply to post by Annee


well I think all of us need to define Christianity.

Christianity to me is simply a person who believes Jesus is God in human flesh who came, died, and rose again for the atonment of sins. That's it.

But to many, I'm not saying you in particular, Christianity means, republican, fundamental, etc.

I can't imagine being a Christian.

The Cognotive Dissonance that must be internally generated by simultaneous being a member of the most historically dominant cult throughout all of recorded history AND being able to somehow continue to play the victim-card for over two millennia.

It boggles the mind...

"Poor us, we do everything we can to push our views on everyone else, everywhere, at all times; but if someone questions our belief system because it has no quantifiable or empirical evidence in reality, it's an attack."

"Poor us, our members include multi-billion-dollar televangelist networks that own their own radio, satellite-radio and television production companies that broadcast our message across the globe, 24/7/365...but those unorganised Athiest 'networks' invading "our" space on an obscure conspiracy website or two..."

Yes, Theist(or we should just say Christian because we know you're not talking about polytheism, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism or Animism...or any other -ism for that matter). Athiest are trying to "deharmonize the harmony spheres"....except that what you call "harmony" is merely just a "monopoly of control.". Yeah...some of us think 2 millennia are enough.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Okay, now you're being insulting. I'm putting my defense boots on.

Are atheists truly the bad ones? Are theists innocent? Because my super catholic English teacher singles me out a lot because I'm not Christian. My mother has trouble tolerating me and even verified that I wasn't part of her family when I first came out as a Wiccan to her.

All the atheists I know won't attack unless provoked. And by attack, I mean stand their gound for their lack of beliefs because 99% of religons based on one conteoling God hold no fact to them. Having faith isnt bad.cbeing christian isnt bad. Hell, believing in Gd isnt bad. But doing what you are is bad and cruel.

You simply started this thread to make yourself more confident by bringing all the atheist-haters together in one to offend all atheists. I'm sick of people like you.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
a theistic belief system (which is usually based on respect and appreciation of life.)

Islamic atrocities
The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
Crazy Jews