It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Atheist, deharmonizing the harmony of the spheres

page: 13
11
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:02 AM
link   
reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


hey, did you know Hitler was a theosophist, backed and funded by the Thule Society?
nahhhh, you don't know that!

"But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

I think you are in danger of some very serious inconsistancies, not worthy of debate. Ignorance is your shield. Pride is carrying the banner.




posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
and I will exit this section with a simple request...

please leave my theistic and deistic and agnostic brothers and sisters alone!

let my people go!



How about "your people" leave the rest of US alone?? I have yet to see one atheist knock on my door pushing their beliefs down my throat. I have yet to see one atheist dehumanize another person for not believing in what they believe.

Again, practice what you preach.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:07 AM
link   
this belongs here... let us listen to each word mr Atheist has to say with certain scrutiny.

he too could have been the leader of the atheist movement, he knows what it means.


...listen, ...think bout it, think!

signed

Doc Frankenstein (day of the dead)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Ghostcooler
reply to post by Annee
 

OK answer me this, hypothetically if the belief in any kind of god,creator,or religious deity's was nonexistent would atheism exist?


Would I say original modern human was born with a concept of god? NO - absolutely NO.

Only when modern human began to question Why? Did leaders of man need to invent answers.

Pagan (life - birth - crops - weather) - - would probably be the closest IMO to an early god concept because of need.





why is it that the most religious always claim they are not at the expense of others that claim they are.
If you compile your statements on this thread it is clear to all that you are the most dogmatic religious person in this thread.
You even just made a claim to knowledge of absolutes.
Atheism is not a philosophy, it's a religion and you prove it the more you dance around it.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:17 AM
link   
reply to post by Believer101
 

atheist don't have a belief to be spreading or telling other people about except online... where they love to play the role of the self god amongst the supposedly stupider masses


the people who knock on your door believe in Love.


edit on 22-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:26 AM
link   
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 
What I have always wondered is why do your Gods need revelations, why all the threats of "belive and worship me or ELSE".
Maybe someone can answer this without hate or ridicule in a common sense manner........................or not.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
the people who knock on your door believe in Love.


edit on 22-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)


Oh they do, do they? Which is why my best friend, a gay man, was savagely beaten by those people strictly because he's gay. That's why those people kicked him out of church strictly because he's gay.

They most definitely do NOT believe in love.

Now, since it's rather obvious you can't bring anything logical into this thread based off your post history, I'm off.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:36 AM
link   
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


Atheists can be pretty religious about their beliefs... Fundamentalists in fact. I love to tell them that God doesn't believe in them either


What they don't know though, and what they will vehemently deny, is that they choose love everyday, meaning they choose God. They are only that nasty online, but really, I have yet to meet an atheist that is evil, as they can't choose that.... It would prove they believe in good and evil, which defeats the objective of their objecting.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:46 AM
link   
Here the base. our dimension, 3rd dimension this world is not the only existing dimension, their are other dimensions, other parellel universes and the such. outside of these world are 4th dimenison and the ever increasing. Which basicly saids that their are an infinity of possibilities, beyond our universe and the such. and you do not believe in heaven . ???
edit on 22-4-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Believer101
 


Religious nuts! I believe atheist are closer to God in so many ways that the religious can't realise, mainly because they question all the time, whereas the religious accept what's fed to them. They choose to be feeble minded sheep ushered down aisles to alters of a God they don't get! They read lines of books and choose to base their lives on the lines, but not the chapters and verse. The beauty about sexuality is that God gave it to us. The ugliness about religion is that although God wanted it so that we could have Him in our lives, even He has turned away from it, because we have managed to add our ugly to everything He taught.

Tell your friend to choose God not the church, he isn't answerable to man.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:54 AM
link   
reply to post by SisyphusRide
 


When discussing personal belief systems, both those based on faith and based on scientific theory, even the most polite and intelligent discussion will have something that someone somewhere will take offense to. How can it not? The majority of the arguements on one side or the other almost always involve taking what one person believes and telling them why you feel they should see it from your perspective. Though I know it certainly does happen, I don't think the majority of the time its ment to be intentionally offensive. But if I tell you I belive something that goes against the core of your own beliefs, the average individual is going to take offense be it intentional or not.

Everyone should always stand for their beliefs, but in doing so one must be ready to not take offense when someone challenges your own beliefs. It may seem offensive at the time, but you must always realize that the individual making the statements is still learning themselves. We are all still learning about our existance together, and regardless of faith/belief one thing is for certain: we've only just scratched the surface of our understanding of this world.

It does bother me from time to time that it seems like civil debate is rapidly becoming a thing our past. Not just on religious discussion, but on any other issue as well. We have polorized ourselves to the point that many feel they cannot trust anyone anymore. To me, that is a very sad state of affairs. Just looking at religion alone, we can see how far we've pushed eachother away.

During roman times there were public domains specifically dedicated to open discussion. Hundreds upon hundreds of different belief systems were discussed openly for all citizens to hear and form their own opinion. Today to have these same discussions, we must hide ourselves deep within conspiracy forums and when we do we then just argue and point the finger at eachother.

It is not us however that is broken, it is the system in place. We have a system that conditions us to immediately reject what isn't the norm. If we all dressed in tinfoil suits, walked on our hands, and had fireballs shooting out of our buttocks... the one that did not would be the one concidered "odd".

In order to break this cycle, we must first all accept that the norm isn't neccesarily always whats best.

I have faith in mankind, but in terms of our own progression as the human race we are all still very much acting like children.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:12 AM
link   
Nope.

I think theists are the vicious people. They may not intentionally want to be that way, but because of the nature of belief systems - you know - where your heart or gut feeling comes first - belief - that the reasonable human mind takes backseat and raging hearts rule.

So with that in mind, an atheist might say, "I think your belief is unfounded," but the theist will count that as a vicious attack though it's just a matter of opinion. Nothing vicious there objectively, but by HURTING the belief, you hurt the emotions, you provoke instinctual and so therefore the atheist becomes vicious.

Blablabla.


What an age old debate. This topic we usually refuse in bars all around the globe. It sends negative energy just everywheres.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:22 AM
link   
reply to post by headb
 


I have to agree with you to some regard, but I think the conversations are important and necessary. Yes people get all flared up over various issues. But most of the time, it seems neither side are willing to actually discuss the topic. Rather, at least from my experience, the two sides can't even get on the same page because they have different connotations of words, and are actually talking past one another.

I'm not really that into debates, but formal ones between William Lane Craig and Hitchens, or John Lennox vs Dawkins are really good things to watch from both sides of the discussion. It shows when both sides make a valid point, but it also shows when they speak past one another, or one fails to address the point being brought up. It happens in the formal arena of discussion, so it's sure to happen quite often in informal conversations.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by Quibbler
reply to post by GuidedKill
 


Yeah, atheists never go door to door preaching their disbelief. But where you see them crop up is usually on any religious topic ever just to spout how much they don't believe and how wrong every theist is.

I was on a page earlier (on my phone so I don't have the link any longer) and it was Kid Cudis response to the kid who died from a heart condition, but before he died he made a YouTube video telling of his NDE. The top comment on the page was some atheist with an "I'm smarter than you" complex going on about how what the kid saw was nothing but serotonin and blah blah blah that it was nothing but a dream. It was just really rude and condescending.

The majority of times I see an atheist talk it's never from a stance of understanding or sympathy, it's always a firm stance that there's no other option. Now I know this isn't true for all atheists of course, it's just that's why people tend to have such a negative opinion of them. The stereotypical atheist is a butthole.

I'm not going to get into the hypocrisy and "believe or hell" attitudes of many theists.

If the truth is condescending, then GTFO. That is one pathetic attitude that has gotten us in the crapper before and is keeping us there.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by SaturnFX
no problem

In 2009, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press polled members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science on belief in a higher power. The study found that 51 percent of members polled expressed such a faith, compared to 95 percent of the American public. Additionally, the National Academy of Science charted belief in God as low as 5.5 percent among biologists and 7.5 percent among physicist and astronomers in a 1998 study


ok lets break this down shall we and take a closer look...

"In 2009, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press polled members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science on belief in a higher power. The study found that 51 percent of members polled expressed such a faith"

thank you I rest my case... God is the higher power, unfortunately Biologist, Physicist and Astronomers (which I believe astronomers should be excluded from this poll) have a problem with believing any other truth but their own... Makes perfect sense, just look at that chump Richard Dawkins... he's a sissy! imo


a higher power could be anything, from a deity, to plejarian aliens, etc. I personally believe there are other species of aliens so absurdly advanced compared to us that by comparison, they would seem godlike. Does that make them a god? nope...

Also, I am not opposed to the idea of an overall order and intent in the universe. I have my own idea on what a God could be. I entertain the idea often. An atheist does not believe there are no gods (thats just a skeptic gnostic), they simply do not believe in a god(s) until evidence is presented.

You have pages and pages of people checking basically every word you have made. Why? because its simple, you have lied. You have bared false witness, and you are much worse than what you judged falsely to begin with. Will you learn from your mistake? No...because you enjoy being a liar it appears. And no, you don't represent the average theist...you represent only yourself whom wants to use your religion and system of belief as a tool of hate.
What does that say about you?

Now look at the title of your thread.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:38 AM
link   
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


you harp on an issue I brought up earlier. You say "God" and the discussion doesn't get any further because the atheist, since they don't believe in any often presume to follow with questions like, "which god our the 330 million humans worship" while the theist, at least the monotheist, will presume that they are talking a single intelligent entity responsible for the creation of everything.

and even the discussion about proof and evidence becomes a mute one because both sides comes at it from a different point of view.

A person who holds onto science as the only means to ultimate reality can only rely on physical, material proofs to conclude their position, while someone who may believe in a spiritual reality go beyond simply the physical. Then it gets into all sorts of existential and philosophical discussions, which I often love to do as a theist because it really gets deep.

The mud slinging and the ad hominem attacks from both sides are what causes strife and is the reason why people avoid the topic.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:54 AM
link   
reply to post by LaborofLove
 



Atheists can be pretty religious about their beliefs... Fundamentalists in fact. I love to tell them that God doesn't believe in them either

An atheist fundamentalist? That's an oxymoron.


reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



atheist don't have a belief to be spreading or telling other people about except online...

Atheists do not have a belief to be spreading or telling other people out because atheism is not a belief, it is a lack of belief. Some atheists might believe that god does not exist, but that's not atheism in itself. This is something that keeps being repeated over and over again and yet people do not understand it. Also I take comfort that unless provoked atheists are not anti-religion, usually they are only "militant" (I use that term loosely, because a "militant" Christian is someone who blows up abortion clinics) when religion encroaches on their lives, which it often does in some countries. The fact that you seemingly only have atheists telling other people about it online is a good thing. In other words, atheists are only loud and rude as a reaction to dogmatic beleif systems encroaching on their lives, rather than anything innate to atheism.


where they love to play the role of the self god amongst the supposedly stupider masses

I have yet to meet an atheist who loves to play the role of the self god? What does that even mean?


the people who knock on your door believe in Love.

Love is not something that is exclusive to those with faith. Also the people who go door to door might think they are spreading love, in reality they telling them that unless they follow a bizarre book else they go to hell. Doesn't sound very loving to me, but whatever.

reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



this belongs here... let us listen to each word mr Atheist has to say with certain scrutiny.

Being an atheist unfortunately does not prevent one from also being a complete nutjob. Crazy people may not need a bible, they need help. In any case, populations with a larger percentage of atheists do not seem to be more predisposed to insane criminal acts. Also I find it ironic that you use Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of this since he was killed by Christopher Scarver, a man who thought he was doing the work of god.

reply to post by SisyphusRide
 



an atheist is a minority of the smartest individuals on the planet in which a majority of their minority have either a chicken bone or a bull ring thru their nose so they may be led around repeating other peoples babble...

Yes totally, having a position that completely vilified and far different to the majority is totally being led around by a bull ring through the nose!



Dawkins is the leader of the atheist...

Nope. He's an outspoken atheist that many atheists listen to?


and again a majority of this minority are wanna be preachers of some sort and they have an unquenchable urge to head over to theistic forums and attack a majority of peaceful loving and caring individuals.

Says someone preaching nonsense about atheism. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder against atheists because on a separate theist forum you go on has been trolled. But yes, some atheists might like to do that, but at least none of that sort of stuff is innate to being an atheist, whereas there is seemingly a lot of hate from the religious that is innate in the teachings of whatever religion it is. Examples: Constantly telling people they are going to hell for not believing what they do, male genital mutilation, being against gay marriage because their religion tells them so.

Also saying that the majority of atheists are like that is like saying the majority of those who have faith are evil and disgusting people because of things like this:

"Cranston police can [go away]. Yes I do hate jessica alquist. Yes I do hope she dies. Yes I do wish her massive amounts of bodily harm"
twitter.com...#!/tbauman93/status/159125858014085121

But that would be logical fallacy.



there's nothing new under the sun fellas... you want to be a real dissident? get down with Jesus!

Yeah! Believing the majority is totally being a real dissident!


edit on 22/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 22/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 22/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 22/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:55 AM
link   
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
 


Oh hell, I can discuss the concepts of deities on either a scientific, or philosophical grounds (both not making a bunch of sense in regards to a monotheistic modern concept). Half the time I flip a coin and discuss the subject that way if the thread is about philosophical implications moreso than hard evidence.

My issue with religion in general is whenever they try to push their religion into schools, stamped on money, when someone shoots someone else in the name of their religion, etc...aka, when it effects other people.

One good quote I heard was, religion should be seen as masturbation. Sure, most people may do it, but they do it privately in their own home and don't discuss it much to others.

I think however your discussing theology actually...religion is not theology..you can have a good theological discussion with anyone and keep it high brow, until someone says its the truth..then you invite in issues.

If I had to hold a system of belief based purely on what makes sense in a spiritual way, it would look something like this:
My god is super giant huge, multidimensional consciousness (not like the consciousness we understand though) and knows we are here in the same way we know an electron is shooting around a proton in an atom that is in a molecule in our liver...aka, sure, it may logically understand there is life within its body, but individually I don't think it can possibly know/care/understand us as individuals. What we are experiencing is something much different...God is a 10, We are a 2, angels are a 3 (to keep perspective). We die and meet things like 4-7. This makes sense to me. This has no book, nor do I demand this is the truth. I won't be making a church for it, nor blowing something up. I don't pretend to know the mind of this absurdly different consciousness, nor do I believe it would understand my perspective. And anyone whom took my thought and made a holy book to discuss this, I would immediately dismiss as nuts, trolling, capitalizing on something, etc.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Believer101
 

hypocrite? hell try "not a sissy foot"

cry all you guys want... I don't make a good christian and I don't make a good atheist either...

I just like to fight hypocrites... nothing wrong with that since I'm a chimp right?


So, you fight hypocrites with hypocrisy? Wow...

I'm sorry... that's how I was born and raised in this outer land and at times you can say I am outta hand...

throw your finger in the air let me see where you're at!




posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:03 AM
link   
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


you're right in that religion and theology are different. The thing that is interesting is that your points of why you have a problem with religion are the same problems I have with it. It's often a sweeping generalization to think that anyone who holds a particular view of faith are automatically going to blow up buildings and kill people in the name of their god. In fact, I don't believe most people are like that.

And as far as preaching and evangelizing, I understand you want to be left alone. But if you put yourself in the shoes of a let's say a Christian, (and I can speak for myself because I am a Christian who grew up with no spiritual beliefs, in fact it was more atheist and mocking religion) then you might at least see why they do what they do.

Regardless of whether you believe it's true or not, the person who is pro-life is going to have a problem with the idea of pro-choice because they believe life begins at conception. Now you can disagree with that, you at least you can see the other point of view. Similarly, a Christian who might be telling others about their faith is doing so because they believe that there is a spiritual war going on here on planet earth, and there is a way to salvation. They do it out of love, not hate. Now, not everyone falls under this category, and certainly there are hypocrites and people who abuse the system (televangelists etc) but that's true with any realm and it's not exclusive to religion.

In fact, I believe some of the most sinister people in the world are doing things under the guise of freedom, peace, and security. Just study the New World Order and you should see that mass murder is happening under the guise of peace.




top topics



 
11
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join