Scientists and "They"

grrrr, just trying to vent a little anger over here....

On so many forums on ATS I see people talk about scientists, and "They do this and that and that"....

As though all scientists are part of some conspiracy.

In the astronomy-forums I would read "Scientists say this and that", and then it becomes a huge issue about alien-cover-ups, the sun going to blow up, or other doomsday scenarios.
In the fragile-earth and medical forums I see the same.

People, don't you realize that science has many different branches? Instead of combing them all over the same comb, why can't you say in the astronomy-forum "Astronomers say that", and so on.

If I read "Scientists say that....", it is always in such condescending tones. Don't you realize that scientists are people like you and me, that just has studied their own field. One scientist may know almost everything that there is to know about a cockroach, or about the moon, but little about anything else. There is no need to be so condescending to scientists. There is no global brotherhood of scientists. There are astronomical societies, zoological societies, entomological societies, IEEE, etc, etc, etc, as much as there are homewife-societies, firearm-owner societies, drag-racing societies.

God people, scientists are normal people. Scientists are not a godhood. So, why are scientists singled out as to be the roots of all evil??????

sheez!!!!

Technology makes us weak.

Very, very weak.

Science works against us.

The more we learn, the weaker we become...

You think it's silly for me to say such things, because you are programmed to...

I think the problem comes from a lack in scientific knowledge among the ATS community.
I see a lot of times where the OP reports some science story and it goes over many heads so you end up with nonsense replies. Most of the time it's some sort of fear mongering reply that hasn't been thought about in light of what the OP is really saying.

It takes a certain level of knowledge to understand the stories, much less form a worthwhile reply. Some think it's easier to just regurgitate some metaphysics thread b.s. you've read all day.

I don't think I exactly hit on your point, but your rant made me want to rant.

God people, scientists are normal people. Scientists are not a godhood. So, why are scientists singled out as to be the roots of all evil??????

Because unfortunately, many people worship science and scientists like they are a "godhood". And when you stop questioning the "godhood", and take everything they say as the gospel truth, you end up with a religion.

Originally posted by Klassified

God people, scientists are normal people. Scientists are not a godhood. So, why are scientists singled out as to be the roots of all evil??????

Because unfortunately, many people worship science and scientists like they are a "godhood". And when you stop questioning the "godhood", and take everything they say as the gospel truth, you end up with a religion.

If people worship science and scientists, it is their (the people who worship them) problem isn't it? Science and scientist have never asked to be God, have they???????

reply to post by Hellhound604


They aren't all part of some conspiracy. I agree that sometimes groups get bad raps...

However that being said started reading about scientific organizations such as the AMS, ASA, ASSS, the US NAS, etc. etc. etc. It's the groups that sponsor and censor the scientific results that are the issue, not the scientists themselves (In most cases.)

Not that I don't agree with you... for it's obvious that 'they' are not to include all scientists, nor do 'they' control all avenues in which their research may take. This being said, to try and escape the reality that there is politics in the scientific community is ignorant and faulty to say the least.

Do you understand what it takes to be published in particular journals, what it takes to get many particular institutions to even consider any research undertakings...

There is a hierarchy in the moves of any group or organization, this is true in science. Meritocracy rules supreme, especially when encompassed by monetary investments.

Guess what!?!?! 'They', in regards to science and its advancements, are 'all up in that'. Think about 'global warming' and the difference between the notion of being 'man made' or 'natural'... the distinction between the two are fundamental, and the funded research into either side involves more than just being about the money invested into the research. It's about the money invested into an answer, an answer that will best suit those who invested.

There's much more than just 'solutions' or 'innovation' that comes from furthering our knowledge in all sciences... there is a gradual shift in 'paradigm'. Those who invest heavily into this research, and the institutions that carry out said research... KNOW THIS!

Science Under Attack
topdocumentaryfilms.com...

A War on Science
topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Heavy Watergate: The War Against Cold Fusion
topdocumentaryfilms.com...


Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Ben Stein shows us a world where Academia’s freedom of inquiry might not be so free. This should be a concern for anyone and everyone. This undermines the concept that we will be teaching facts and truth in our universities. However, if you watch how this documentary is formatted you will find that this documentary is overly biased, delving into spectrums of propaganda! Let me explain. Stein sets about proving his premise by interviewing scientists that have been rejected by the establishment. Scientists who have allegedly had their lives ruined because of their belief in something called “Intelligent Design.” Science isn’t here to persecute people’s beliefs and this concept would probably outrage anyone… that is until you realize the lengths he goes to paint science as the root of this evil.

Originally posted by Hellhound604

Originally posted by Klassified

God people, scientists are normal people. Scientists are not a godhood. So, why are scientists singled out as to be the roots of all evil??????

Because unfortunately, many people worship science and scientists like they are a "godhood". And when you stop questioning the "godhood", and take everything they say as the gospel truth, you end up with a religion.

If people worship science and scientists, it is their (the people who worship them) problem isn't it? Science and scientist have never asked to be God, have they???????

Interestingly enough the knowledge gap between lay people and scientists puts them in a similar social role as the priest. Previously, the priests were the dispensers of information that lay people were not allowed or inclined to own for themselves. Priests preaching in latin for example. Well, Scientists speak in their own language of mathematics, and their specialization makes it so the people are dependent on them for their knowledge/information. I think this is mostly seen in the way people take the word of scientists based on their reputation alone and not their experimental procedure. Just like a poor old farmer will believe the preacher without looking at the Bible.

The truth is a lot of scientist that are in the public eye are on TPTB side. We all know there's a wealth of knoweldge that we and the "scientists" are aware of that they don't actually broadcast and meke mainstream. Fact. As for the other alternative scientists, even the ones that would love to share their infomation are surpressed by fear of public humiliation and loosing respect of their "peers". I suppose they do have careers and reputations to consider.

reply to post by Hellhound604


Actually, god-like powers is the ultimate goal of science...
And yet, a lot of scientists are atheist...

If there can be no God, why bother?

It's ludacris.

Nothing wrong with Science or Scientist's - only the use to which their knowledge is put is sometimes not always sane

Originally posted by Klassified



Interestingly enough the knowledge gap between lay people and scientists puts them in a similar social role as the priest. Previously, the priests were the dispensers of information that lay people were not allowed or inclined to own for themselves. Priests preaching in latin for example. Well, Scientists speak in their own language of mathematics, and their specialization makes it so the people are dependent on them for their knowledge/information. I think this is mostly seen in the way people take the word of scientists based on their reputation alone and not their experimental procedure. Just like a poor old farmer will believe the preacher without looking at the Bible.

lol, ok.... you got me on that...
I can remember sitting in a first-year physics class (many years ago), and when the professor asked me a question, I was so in awe of him (I viewed him as a god), that I couldn't answer...... (guess it was part of my upbringing).

When I studied zoology many years afterwards, and I was on the same level as my professors (heck, some of them were in the same pre-grad class as me), then I realized that their knowledge was very limited outside their fields of expertise, and I could talk to them as a peer. I was an electronic engineer back then, and saw many of their problems from an engineering p.o.v, and could suggest "why don't you do it this and that way then?"..... and they never even thought about those avenues of solving their problems.

It was the same when I was part of a committee that wrote an astronomy dictionary many, many years ago, and I was flabbergasted when a very senior professor kept on referring some issues to me.

Scientists are people like you and me, and have to work in the framework that they can. As much as you, that work for a company does. If your company tells you "you can't do this and this work that you want to do, because there is no money for it", do you get blamed by everybody for that???? Then why do you blame scientists that are in the same situation?

If you build something for the company that you work for, do you get any credit for it? No, your company gets all the credit for it, if you fail in that project, you get the blame for it. Guess what, it is the same for scientists....

I definitely agree, I am guilty of this myself as its been ingrained and I do apologize. I am trying to be more like Dr. blah at derp institute says this in this sourced paper (or blog or whatever). Sometimes my emotions get the better of me and I look like a fool, it happens. I am trying to improve.

I feel the same way when I associate myself with a group and its attacked, so I do understand. While I can't apologize for everyone (I doubt everyone would apologize anyways) I do want you to know that I empathize with you and this is a legitimate rant.

reply to post by Hellhound604

If people worship science and scientists, it is their (the people who worship them) problem isn't it? Science and scientist have never asked to be God, have they???????

My statement was not an indictment of science or scientists. And it was not a dig on you. It was an observation. No need for the attitude.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Hellhound604

 

If people worship science and scientists, it is their (the people who worship them) problem isn't it? Science and scientist have never asked to be God, have they???????

My statement was not an indictment of science or scientists. And it was not a dig on you. It was an observation. No need for the attitude.

edit on 4/20/2012 by Klassified because: formatting

hey dude, I didn't mean to attack you. Guess I just sound angry when I get excited, and I apologize if you think I attacked you. Really I didn't (but I have heard it before, that when I get excited about something that is dear to me, that people think I am very aggressive..... so, I apologize for that )

reply to post by Hellhound604

No problem. I just didn't want you to think I was trying to be condescending in my original post.

I saw on a commercial that scientists say that your body cannot tell the difference between real sugar and "corn sugar" (the new name for high fructose corn syrup).
This is a lie, in fact there are doctors as well as individuals that know differently.

(Edit)
Scientists are singled out as they are the ones who are educated in a certain area, yet some are bought and paid for to see results a certain way.

reply to post by g146541


I think it is more a case that certain scientists study some things, and come to a specific conclusion, and then the MSM pick up on it, and make up their own ideas of what the study says.

Science is not definite. Any scientific hypothesis is subjected to peer reviews, and lots of them. So, of course, sometimes you will hear something, and then the next week something else. That is how science works. It is not the absolute truth. It is relative. As our knowledge increases, scientific theories and hypothesis change. Science is not a religion. Science is just the understanding, or trying to understand how things work..... So, all scientific theories will get refined over time. Hypotheses will either be rejected, or accepted as a theory over time, depending if it can be proved or not. Science is not a religion, in which things are fixed in stone.

Look at Newtonian physics. In 99.999% of all cases of movement it is still perfectly valid, but once we move into a certain domain it has to be changed to relativistic physics, which suffice for most of the remaining part, until you get to some areas where that does not suffice, and you have to go to quantum physics. Does that mean that Newtonian physics is wrong? Of course not!!!!

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
Technology makes us weak.

Very, very weak.

Science works against us.

The more we learn, the weaker we become...

You think it's silly for me to say such things, because you are programmed to...

Why dont you go buy a horse and live up in the mountains that way you cant bother anyone.
Bloody hate hypocritical preachers like yourself!

Get of the computer if you think science and technology makes us weak

reply to post by muSSang


There is some truth in that we rely too much on technology and in thinking technological advance will answer all our needs. However technology can be a bonus and enrich our life and is great tool in many ways
Yet what is it we need to survive at a basic level
Food
Clean water
Shelter
Warmth
Who provides these things - we have become dependent on others for our basic necessities and so are weaker in that respect.