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The King is Dead, Long Live the Rex

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posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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American scientific Ufology is dead. Its once glorified remains lay decomposing and waiting to be buried in the already littered graveyard of Ufology


Here you will find an article published earlier this week by one James Carrion - a blog really - regarding the takeover of scientific ufology by the South American continent. Quite an interesting little read for your Thursday night.

Enjoy!




posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


Very interesting indeed and so true, South American ufologists are pushing their respective governments hard, something's gonna give and I'm betting Brazil


S+F.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Did someone say UFO and South America?

UFOs In South America - Disclosure Has Begun - Full Feature


Scientists, researchers, military personnel and astronauts have been talking about UFOs for years. Recently some major governments have begun to make their files on UFOs public.



edit on 19-4-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


Ufology is indeed dead and broken.
People who were once white-hats in the field like Stan Friedman are now just tired old men stuck in the routine of getting paid to lecture at one convention or another, doing nothing of any great or even little importance.

It's a round and round carousel with all the garishly painted fantastic animals ridden by dreamers stuck on a ride of lectures, appearances, tours, discussions, and other such for pay.

Most, if not all the big names in ufology are corrupted, not by the disk of the UFO, but by the disk of coin.

They pay lip service to the fans, believers, and followers, dolling out validation, but, other than parading themselves about on a stage to keep the dream alive, no real scientific study seems to be either pursued or even wanted.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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It's true Ufology may be on the downfall but it wouldn't be this way if a scientist wouldn't be committing career suicide to openly discuss even the possibility of ET's visiting. This is taboo in most scientific fields so not many are willing to loose credibility (from peers) by openly pursuing UFO's.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 


Neil deGrasse Tyson has talked about UFOs, and alien intelligence many times.
As far as study of the subject goes, I suspect these things take time. Someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about aliens, plus Hawking, and a few others, with enough talking on the subject, could very well open a crack in the wall for real study.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


Indeed Degrasse has a unique and intelligent way at looking at UFO's but he ultimately says there is no proof but it's okay to continue to look but he's not one of them that's going to. He didn't gather this from studying UFO's per say but from the fact that nothing concrete has been presented to the public yet. In short he may mention UFO's but I doubt he has personally studied the 5% of the encounters that are deemed unexplainable by any earthly means.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 


True. He IS however quite vocal, and the talk is there. The subject is part of the conversation, if only from the logical skeptic point of view, but, it IS talked about.

It's a small step to get the subject even in the public dialog to be discussed freely and openly out in the public, with the public. The next step is to just get someone to go from the talking to real scientific inquiry.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker

Here you will find an article published earlier this week by one James Carrion - a blog really - regarding the takeover of scientific ufology by the South American continent..


Thanks for posting that Orkojoker and it certainly looks like the South American continent is beginning to get it's act together when it comes to official and objective UFO research - Colonel Ariel Sanchez makes some interesting comments here about official research projects conducted by Uruguay, Chile and Peru and also mentions the fact that the Argentine government is forming a new UFO commission -Chilean General Ricardo Bermudez has also done a lot of great work and has signed an agreement of cooperation with NARCAP through Chile’s General Direction of Aeronautics.


CEFAA collaboration with NARCAP

Cheers.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by Druscilla
 


Indeed Degrasse has a unique and intelligent way at looking at UFO's but he ultimately says there is no proof but it's okay to continue to look but he's not one of them that's going to. He didn't gather this from studying UFO's per say but from the fact that nothing concrete has been presented to the public yet. In short he may mention UFO's but I doubt he has personally studied the 5% of the encounters that are deemed unexplainable by any earthly means.


Sounds like he doesn't take it seriously or pretends not too take it seriously. It is a damn shame UFO's and the scientific community don't get along, I mean who better to look into the subject of UFOs but a scientist? 1. they're a scientist and 2. scientists are usually nerdy/geeky and what nerd/geek doesn't enjoy scifi?
edit on 19-4-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Druscilla
Someone like (insert name here) talking about aliens, plus (insert name here) and a few others, with enough talking on the subject, could very well open a crack in the wall for real study. I partly agree with you if it were the right people. Problem is, I don't know who's name to insert. I have to say it will take some one other than Tyson.

Neil deGrasse Tyson sent me quite a snarky e-mail saying that, at that time of year, in that position in the Atlantic in 1912, when Rose (Kate Winslet) is lying on the piece of driftwood and staring up at the stars, that is not the star field she would have seen,” Cameron told to Discovery.

Article
I haven't ever really like this guy's attitude. He seems like a bit of a jerk. IMO, of course. I also don't like his tone in the below video. And after I watched it the first time, I rewatched it without sound, just to see his body language. I think hes full of himself. With an attitude like that, his opinion will be of little relevance as far as opening the crack in the wall.

Hawking, maybe if he doesn't get too out there with his attitude too. He seems kind of full of himself lately, but, he would have more of an influence I think. It would definitely take many voices. And I don't think it will happen in the U.S. I guess South America is going to be our best bet.
I most think that it will take the right case to open everyone's minds and get real study started. It would have to be an incident that was undeniable by the government/those who wish to cover it up. That means everyone would need to be able to go outside or turn on their tvs to see this incident. I feel if that were to happen it would be too late for study.
Not trying to offend you, its just my opinion on Tyson.
TXML
edit on 19-4-2012 by txMEGAlithic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


Thanks for the reply! I don't recall seeing you in this forum until very recently. I've been noticing your posts. A breath of fresh air. Welcome.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Swills

I mean who better to look into the subject of UFOs but a scientist?


Very good point, here's a nice article about Dr James E. Mcdonald from the University of Arizona who was an atmospherical physicist.




One scientist who has advocated a comprehensive, unbiased investigation the UFO phenomenon, astronomer Dr. Bernard Haisch, defines a Skeptic as, “One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity.”2

By Haisch’s definition, very few scientists are true skeptics on the subject of UFOs. On the contrary, over the years, most have behaved as self-appointed experts, having all the answers, without first investigating any of the facts. Although scientists profess a deep curiosity about little understood or unknown phenomena, when it comes to UFOs, this assertion rings hollow. At the moment, the UFO phenomenon is a blind spot in most scientists’ field of vision. There is definitely something there to be seen, but they can not, or will not, bring themselves to take a look.

As noted earlier, the late Dr. James McDonald—one of the few scientists to have actually studied the UFO phenomenon before holding forth on the subject—once pointedly criticized the thoroughly unprofessional posture toward UFOs he observed among his colleagues and the scientific community at large..


Science and UFOs: Part 3—Deep Denial Disguised as Rational Skepticism







Originally posted by txMEGAlithic
I haven't ever really like this guy's attitude. He seems like a bit of a jerk.


TxMEGAlithic, I agree, Dr Tyson may be an expert in other fields but when it comes to the UFO subject I suspect he's conducted very little research and thus has a very hard time holding an objective, informed opinion -TeaAndStrumpets has made a great post here about him.


Cheers.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Your welcome, Karl. Thanks for enhancing my thread with your presence, and thanks for the links. NARCAP has some really interesting information to share - to those who are willing to listen.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by txMEGAlithic
 


While agreed, there can be criticisms regarding anyone's attitude or perceived ego.
Dr. Michio Kaku is another very visible and publicly active face in the scientific field that seems open to discussing the 'alien' topic.

Yes, it'll take more than one voice. It might take quite a few. So long as the conversation keeps going, regardless any flamboyance or egos as you've pointed out with Dr. Tyson, stubborn ears may hear, and reluctant other voices may join the conversation.

the more voices joining, the louder it gets.

I don't expect there to be any announcements or flag waving that Dr. X is going to study the UFO phenomenon any time soon.
If anything, should anyone slant over into dipping a toe in those waters, studies conducted will be done quietly, and then a paper will also quietly show up in one of the journals, and a year or two later, some enterprising science reporter will stumble on the paper on a slow news day or week, and then the scientific study of the phenomenon makes news.

It comes in steps. Slow, patient quiet steps. Hopefully, eventually, the footfalls will be thunderous.


edit on 19-4-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by txMEGAlithic
 


I totally concur with your assessment of Tyson. I find this guy to be slopping over with douche. His comments on alien abduction struck me as particularly wrong. If nothing else, he belittles people who are obviously suffering some kind of awful mental distress.




posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


My stance on that is that regardless of how douchey he may approach the subject, the subject is still talked about. In any conversation, this is an invitation for retort, for an exchange, for an alternative answer to the douchey-ness.

He's a smart guy. I'd even go so far as to postulate that he's being douchey about it on purpose, in an attempt to catalyze a retort in the community, to get that reply.
Bland arguments don't inspire inspiration or participation.
Arguments that provoke on the other hand ...



edit on 19-4-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 
Thanks for that, I've been a long-time reader of JC's blog and it's been a while since he posted something substantial.

The references to a Project Persephone-Demeter caught my eye but a few short searches haven't found anything current that links to the presentation. Anything ufological that includes the phrase 'startling conclusions' raises my scepticism a notch. Saying that, Carrion isn't known for wearing rose-tinted glasses so it'd be good to know what the conclusions might be. From my perspective, the only thing that startles me in ufology is the capacity of people within it to have an equation that always includes '= ET.'

The 'Tony Kurowski' is Toni L. Kurowski. Maybe JC doesn't get around the UFO-internet much? Skeptical photo analyses are fairly prominent, we've got GEL, ElevenAugust, DepthofField and quite a few others who keep people on their toes and show how often photos aren't what they appear to be. This isn't to criticise his points, but to highlight that S. America isn't the first to doubt the importance of photography and neither are they alone.

Off the top of my head, it's worth pointing out that some guys ( e.g. Mike Swords, Martin Shough) are still applying the scientific approach. Neither of whom are likely to be seen at UFO conferences in the near future.

The part about Bigelow's interest was fascinating. JC has an axe to grind with them after they directly/indirectly led to his resignation as MUFON director a couple of years ago. I think he did the right thing there. Still, it's wide open to speculation what exactly Bigelow is after and what his motivations really are? What didn't he find in the MUFON database that he thinks he might find in S. America? He's got an itch for *something.*

Anyway, perhaps James Carrion is hoping that S. American countries get the chance to take a better approach than the US took? Maybe instead of ignoring the phenomena on the grounds of 'no threat to National Security,' they'll pursue them simply because science shouldn't shy away from the weird. It's hard not to share the hope.



posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by Druscilla
 


Quite right. I'm all for him bringing the subject publicity, ditto Kaku - whose attitude and approach I appreciate more. He was rather bold right after Leslie Kean's book came out.



Spot on.



posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by karl 12
 


Your welcome, Karl. Thanks for enhancing my thread with your presence


Well I wouldn't say that mate but you're spot on about NARCAPs efforts, the three CEEFA recordings of the Punta Arenas case are well worth a listen:

CEFAA Case Audio

Cheers.






Originally posted by Kandinsky

we've got GEL, ElevenAugust, DepthofField and quite a few others who keep people on their toes and show how often photos aren't what they appear to be.



Kandinsky, I'll second that one mate.



Originally posted by Kandinsky

Off the top of my head, it's worth pointing out that some guys ( e.g. Mike Swords, Martin Shough) are still applying the scientific approach. Neither of whom are likely to be seen at UFO conferences in the near future.


I'll second that one too.

edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)







 
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