Man Killed During Initiation at Masonic Lodge

reply to post by Afterthought


It was a joke. We were communicating without acting like idiots and I thought it was going better than usual. I guess I will file away in the memory banks that you are not to be joked with in any way. I am sure your dog is a real nice animal who has no wish to be associated with a cult. Please convey my apologies to him/her as well.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
I think the purpose of the near death experience is to create a deep seated bond with that person. Any time they feel like going against the lodge they probably think back to their "near death experiences"

and that's real cool and might be right. But that initiation was not masonic. Just sayin.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Wow. You folks are cold. Poking fun about my dog after I've left.
I used the term 'ritualistic' because our walks happen at the same time every day. Kind of like your frat meetings happen at the same time every week.
I've changed my mind and I've decided I have nothing to prove to any of you. I believe that Masonry is a cult simply based on number 5 of the first source I listed earlier in reference to cult definitions.
I can't believe that a bunch of "enlightened" little boys have a go about my dog once I'm logged off. For your information (not that any of you ingrates would care), I learned on Monday that my smart and faithful friend's immune system is beginning to fail him. So much for all of you knowing what true friendship and love is all about. Have fun in your lodges playing with your blindfolds and swords with one pant leg cinched up. You people truly are hoodwinked and cut your noses off despite your faces.
When you use your charity to help young burn victims and cancer sufferers, do you mock them and/or their pets when you're in the safety of your lodge? I wouldn't doubt if you folks make fun of whatever stuffed animal they need to cuddle to ease their fear and pain.
Pathetic.

Sorry to hear about your dog - I am an animal lover so understand how in a state of being upset for your faithful friends health you feel hurt by the remarks. Animals are innocent and deserve our respect. Sorry if my remarks hurt you.
I am not a Mason but do understand them as far as I can.
If you attack with accusations then what would you do if accusations were aimed at you?
I can honestly say that you need to look a little deeper beyond labels placed upon people.
The Masons here are civil and courteous and respond so if you do the same
So often the word Mason is tagged onto conspiracy theory without justification
You can learn much if you really listen -
People are always looking for someone to blame
There is good and bad in all walks of life
Regarding the topic - I feel the Masons here have explained the situation from their perspective.
Rather than just accepting what Anti Masons say at face value - Be smart and don't jump to conclusions but engage in civil discourse rather than reacting with pre-set prejudice
Again sorry to hear about your dog - I know how upsetting it is truly

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
"What? You can dish out something, but can't take it?"

That's good ole masonic tit for tat!

You have been on here for all of less than a month , have you read through all of the threads in this section of the forum ? Masons have been called pedophiles , rapists , murders , killers , devil worshipers , Freakmasons , and other names and accusations . Even one or two have made statements such as "Death to all Masons" , and you are going to jump on a Mason for making a joke , which did not allude to any ill-will toward Afterthought's dog !? As if they are mind readers (if I think about we have been accused of that also ) and knew his dog was ill ?

He was the one claiming that the use of ritual proved that we are a cult over and over and then makes the statement that he is taking his dog on his "ritualistic walk " , so that would beg the question "What cult is he and his dog a member of ?" . So yeah , if he can make the claims , then he should be able to take it .

As for his dog being sick , as a dog lover who owns two and looking for a third , I am truly sorry . I just lost my 16 year old dog to a series of strokes not long ago . But again , the members of this forum had no way of knowing , Afterthought was the one who brought his dog into the discussion , not the others .

Originally posted by Afterthought
I believe that Masonry is a cult simply based on number 5 of the first source I listed earlier in reference to cult definitions.

Your prerogative. You'll excuse me if I never believed your mind or opinion was open to challenge or change in the first place. You clearly have some personal landmarks that you're going to cling to like a limpet and far be it for anyone with actual relevant knowledge to disabuse you of your opinion.

Fair thee well

Originally posted by Afterthought
Have fun in your lodges playing with your blindfolds and swords with one pant leg cinched up. You people truly are hoodwinked and cut your noses off despite your faces.

The phrase is "Cut your nose off to spite your face. Right up there with "I could care less" Missing an "?" or else phrase it as "I couldn't care less". Do get it right people [/screed]

Originally posted by Afterthought
Pathetic.

Considering the source, I'll take that as a compliment. Double negative and all that

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
"What? You can dish out something, but can't take it?"

That's good ole masonic tit for tat! Jesus says turn the other cheek lucifer says let thy vengeance be tenfold upon your enemies.

And well we should (and generally do [certainly more so than those who're antagonistic to Masons and Masonry]). However, we're all but mortal and sometimes despite the best of intentions, give in to mortal frailty. Speaking for the Masons on ATS, we shall try not to disappoint you so mightily in the future.

And the Lucifer reference is relevant....how? Oh.....I get it. We Masons worship Lucifer. I forgot that. I'm really such a crap Mason that way.

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon


And the Lucifer reference is relevant....how?

I'm curious as well....where did Lucifer actually say that anyway?

Will this guy be quoting the Tooth Fairy for us next?

reply to post by Masonic Light


come on, you know King Lucifer repeats that same line at every meeting. What amazes me is how he can get to all those lodges on the same night. He is like........Santa or something.

reply to post by network dude


Santa is an anagram of Satan
Just saying

reply to post by artistpoet


But does Satan have reindeer?
Things to ponder.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by artistpoet

 

But does Satan have reindeer?
Things to ponder.

No but their horns come in handy
He must get through quite a few pairs judging by his numerous appointments

reply to post by Afterthought


Good heavens, we made some jokes about your dog having to take a leak! Since when is it insulting to say, rover must need to pee???? Eh, I digress, big time.

I thought you were putting together a list for me on how my fraternity is a cult... I am still patiently waiting.

reply to post by protocolsoflove

Like I said you guys can dish it out but you can't take it.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by protocolsoflove

 

Like I said you guys can dish it out but you can't take it.

Lucifer said its ok to cowar... hence we dish it out and take as little of it as we can.
Also... whilst lucifer is not the grand authority on copping out... god sure as hell is at dishing it out cold and ruthlessly. So... for as much as lucifer can be referred to when it comes to lodges... be greatful. For if we believe god is referred to... then we get severe ass whipping dish out cold for being faithless and naughty.

reply to post by Pinocchio

I'm not saying you should "cowar", but should Masons sit back and just take it? No. Anti-Masons come onto sites and post their, IMO, trash, but then complain that we fight back? I personally find that to be a double standard and I won't stand for it.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

I'm not saying you should "cowar", but should Masons sit back and just take it? No. Anti-Masons come onto sites and post their, IMO, trash, but then complain that we fight back? I personally find that to be a double standard and I won't stand for it.

Being a conspiracy site, ATS' stock-in-trade is the unprovable. "Deny ignorance" doesn't really mean what you'd expect and SO gets annoyed if Masons push back too directly.

Fitz

I just want to be clear that I am in no way anti freemason. They gave us our amazing country for one thing. Somewhere out there though, someone is mixing masonic symbolism with anton levay church of satan symbolism and its finding it's way into the damndest things like music videos tv radio and film. I think anyone with a yearning for goodness in the world just wants to get to the bottom of who is doing this stuff. Maybe there's some good reason to give Pink a mock masonic initiation on the MTV music awards.

Could it be that this simply makes ratings go up? Hollywood will put literally anything in their "entertainment" if they think they can squeeze a few more asses in the seats or keep someone on the channel for 10 more minutes. I think of how many times my friends and I looked up Rihanna or Kanye or Drake or Beyonce or old videos of Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey on TV with symbolism.

My instinct tells me that this is a sort of communication. Could it be that the Kaballists who some claim run hollywood just want to besmirch freemasonry as many have done before? They're like we'll put out literally garbage TV depicting women and CHILDREN as sexual objects and glorifying misogyny, violence, drug use. Even Kanye tries to put a "good" message in his music but he still struts around with $400,000 worth of clothing and cars.

I have family members who are masons as well as friends around the US and Canada. It's hard to get the old timers to talk about this and my friends seem to be as in the dark about it as I am, although I was told that Illuminati is DEFINITELY the wrong name for this shadow group.

I told him that until someone comes out with a manifesto or something, we gotta go with the name people know by now haha.

Sorry for the long reply

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
Somewhere out there though, someone is mixing masonic symbolism with anton levay church of satan symbolism and...[snip]

There're thousands, tens of thousands of musical groups all trying to garner a moment's mindspace in today's cluttered media environment. One way to accomplish that is to make music that appeals to a growing group, do it well & consistently. To use a financial analogy, that's kind of like bonds. But that just yields you incremental growth which while solid is boring to music producers & execs who're trying to create that next 'phenomenon' with all the sales jammed into a short span of time need to get as many people in the 13-35 demographic group talking about their artist & buying the music. In short, they're looking for the next tech IPO. What better way than to toss-off a video or start a rumour that generates a little buzz, a little heat by suggesting something untoward or unknown? It isn't like that sort of thing is a new phenomenon either.

So controversy=attention=sales. Pretty simple line of association.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
Maybe there's some good reason to give Pink a mock masonic initiation on the MTV music awards.

It has you (and others, I'm sure) still talking about it. It was P.T. Barnum that said “I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right.”

Any publicity is good publicity.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
Could it be that this simply makes ratings go up?

Absolutely! If they could generate the same increase in buzz and sales with puppies & kittens, the cute factor'd be off the scale 24/7.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
Hollywood will put literally anything in their "entertainment" if they think they can squeeze a few more asses in the seats or keep someone on the channel for 10 more minutes.

Again, absolutely. Hollywood is remarkably shallow & whatever it takes to get your attention is what'll be done. Ask yourself what the last remarkable, original film you saw was that didn't include stuff blowing up or otherwise being destroyed on a 10-minute headway or that didn't have its roots in a children's toy? Film-making (& television to a lesser degree) is an expensive undertaking. The bean counters pulling the levers aren't comfortable with taking a chance on something new when they can repurpose a known quantity. Hence the plethora of remakes, 'action' pictures based on toys & other predictable themes all released at 2-week intervals throughout the year when the studios' take of the box-office is at its highest.

Originality is perilous; predictable is safe. Produce predictable

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
My instinct tells me that this is a sort of communication. Could it be that the Kaballists who some claim run hollywood just want to besmirch freemasonry as many have done before?

Sorry but the reality is much more banal than that. As I said earlier, if they could generate the same sales with puppies & kittens...

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
I have family members who are masons as well as friends around the US and Canada. It's hard to get the old timers to talk about this and my friends seem to be as in the dark about it as I am, although I was told that Illuminati is DEFINITELY the wrong name for this shadow group.

The old-timers don't talk about Masonry because you just didn't talk about the fraternity to non-Masons. If you didn't talk, you couldn't reveal secrets, secrets that in all likelihood they'd have no access to (even though for those so inclined, there've been printed exposés of Masonic ritual for approaching 300 years). Younger Masons realise that the Internet makes most of this information (& anti-Masonic disinformation like the Taxil Hoax) readily available to the non-member & also realise that the vows of secrecy are in fact a test of one's self & one's character rather than real barrier to the non-Masonic world. You can Google the handshakes et al but there's so much more to Masonry than just that.

The reason the word Illuminati keeps getting bandied about is just sheer laziness. It sounds evil and sexy but because too few're actually willing to expend even a modicum of energy to ascertain the truth, it becomes an avatar of the unknown, a shortcut to a 1984-like mindset of simpletons.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
I just want to be clear that I am in no way anti freemason. They gave us our amazing country for one thing.

Remember that ATS is read and contributed to by people from all over the world. People from outside of the States have learned to parse such statements as "our amazing country" as referring to the States. But in respect to others not from where you're from, do make yourself clearer and don't presume that the world revolves around the U.S.

HTH

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Fitz, thanks so much for your reply! A few things in response. How can the freemasons allow this kind of thing to continue to go on? You'd think if they killed William Morgan (this is just an example, I'm not trying to start another Morgan debate) for exposing the first three degrees of the craft that they would at least put the hammer down on MTV et al for revealing what is or is not masonic symbolism including ritual methods. I know that they don't keep any of this stuff secret, that's why I have copies of tomes by Albert Pike, Max Heindel, Manly Hall, etc....

Jay Z and Kanye just announced a collaborative record and one of the song titles is "Freemason".

To your last statement, I understand that these are international forums but I had the overall impression in this thread that I am responding to and communicating with English speaking Americans and I don't think this is untrue. Besides to those of you reading this who live in America, this is OUR country for we are the sovereigns!

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
How can the freemasons allow this kind of thing to continue to go on?

Firstly, we do not have a trademark on Masonic ritual and symbolism so there is nothing to enforce.

Secondly, who cares what other people do? I have enough issues running my own life, why bother with someone else's.