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The most important document(s) you will ever read.
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reply to post by drmeola
Lol well I wouldn't say they are simple questions but okay, sorry about that, feel free to not reply whenever you feel like it. I don't think it was covered fully enough for me, your ideals and beliefs are VERY similar.
Yes I know what anarchism is thanks. I'm not sure how it can be classed as a "political philosophy" when they don't want politics at all! But yeah, I know people view it that way. Personally I just see it as common sense and right. You can not give the monopoly of the use of force to one group and then think everything will be grand! It has NEVER worked!
I see it very very clearly and I know this cop out very very well! You want NICE government! You want JUST government! You want lovely kind souls in POWER! Sorry to disappoint you but this will never happen! Ever! It never has and never will! And even if for a brief time it did, it would soon be infiltrated by unscrupulous people because they want POWER!
More cop out! While you call everyone else with a differing opinion "morons"! Do you know why you have not had a single arrest? Because you OBEY! Simple! Okay maybe on a few minor issues like licensing etc, but you still PAY your sales tax and you still tow the line! They just let you be because you are OBEYING! Now I'm not saying ALL statutes should be broken for the hell of it! But what is the point of being free if you don't exercise it?
Yes and I'm sure the attorney general knows of you and can not be bothered with you because you tow the line anyway! You also pay his wages so why would he care about anything else?
Taxes is far from a small issue, as it is theft! You are being stolen from! I'll reply to what you said in the next paragraph here. You say you could not tell the cashier that you will only pay a dollar etc. Where did I suggest this? I said why not claim it back? Why can't you take your receipts and claim back your stolen money? You say this stolen money pays for police etc, what the police that are oppressing everyone else? Nice!
It's great that you do not pay income tax though! It's a great start!
I'll have to reply to the rest on another message...
Such simple questions you make me work since I can never give a simple answer lol, freeman on the land is covered in the first link of Patriot miss beliefs, a freeman yes, the magna carta yes I know well of these.
Lol well I wouldn't say they are simple questions but okay, sorry about that, feel free to not reply whenever you feel like it. I don't think it was covered fully enough for me, your ideals and beliefs are VERY similar.
Anarchism is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful, or alternatively as opposing authority and hierarchical organization in the conduct of human relations. Proponents of anarchism, known as "anarchists", advocate stateless societies based on non-hierarchical voluntary associations.
Yes I know what anarchism is thanks. I'm not sure how it can be classed as a "political philosophy" when they don't want politics at all! But yeah, I know people view it that way. Personally I just see it as common sense and right. You can not give the monopoly of the use of force to one group and then think everything will be grand! It has NEVER worked!
Using the definition above, NO NO NO, we fully support the State ie Country the de jure/of right government when you begin to understand verbiage as it pertains to law you will see things more clearly.
I see it very very clearly and I know this cop out very very well! You want NICE government! You want JUST government! You want lovely kind souls in POWER! Sorry to disappoint you but this will never happen! Ever! It never has and never will! And even if for a brief time it did, it would soon be infiltrated by unscrupulous people because they want POWER!
In over 35 years Nationals have been in the UNION, nor in the 15 years PAC has been correcting status has there ever been a single arrest. I live in the Country of Florida, though I could open carry by right, we go in peace since Florida has done away with open carry though that is under review and may change back to allow open carry we chose to maintain the peace this is just another reason why in all these years State Nationals are respected as well as being lawful. Unlike these morons running around claim they are sovereign.
More cop out! While you call everyone else with a differing opinion "morons"! Do you know why you have not had a single arrest? Because you OBEY! Simple! Okay maybe on a few minor issues like licensing etc, but you still PAY your sales tax and you still tow the line! They just let you be because you are OBEYING! Now I'm not saying ALL statutes should be broken for the hell of it! But what is the point of being free if you don't exercise it?
We never go to court once your status is corrected any issues that may arrive is handled through paperwork, we can NOT go to their courts except in cases for example murder/rape ext.. since they have zero jurisdiction over us. Supported by the Attorney Generals of each Country in my case Florida a simple phone call to the AG and everything is taken care of no problem.
Yes and I'm sure the attorney general knows of you and can not be bothered with you because you tow the line anyway! You also pay his wages so why would he care about anything else?
I have a paper on taxes, taxes will take another full thread to fully understand all the issues pertaining to them, and is such a small part those in the movement for only that reason we shy away from for liberty and freedom supersede anything that has to do with taxes.
Taxes is far from a small issue, as it is theft! You are being stolen from! I'll reply to what you said in the next paragraph here. You say you could not tell the cashier that you will only pay a dollar etc. Where did I suggest this? I said why not claim it back? Why can't you take your receipts and claim back your stolen money? You say this stolen money pays for police etc, what the police that are oppressing everyone else? Nice!
It's great that you do not pay income tax though! It's a great start!
I'll have to reply to the rest on another message...
reply to post by drmeola
This is the best bit and I fully agree with you! This is what I'm working towards, last year I grew my own veg and it was fantastic! The kids loved it as did we... I wish I could get my partner away from the big stores, but to be honest even here the small stores are more often than not big chains! But so far we home educate, we have scrapped the TV (my partner was a proper soap/crap junkie, so this was a real achievement), and we are cooking more and more meals from scratch, were as before it was all frozen pizzas and the usual crud.
I've looked into alternative energy etc but here in the UK we're so crammed in together I didn't find anything that was feasible (yet).
Yes that is great, I take it you don't live in the city? I can't see it happening where I live, there is too much cultural diversity (which I don't care about as such) and it does tend to create a divide.
My main issue with going down the "legal" route though is that I just don't see why you should have to! Barring the fact that you're scared to go to prison, which in itself is bowing to their bullying! I don't want to go, but if that's where it leads so be it! You can not live in fear like that.
We deal with mom and pop stores and like everyone should be doing staying out of the bigger stores like Wal-Mart and Target, this is good for the local economy and you can also contract with local stores and do away with even that small 6 percent charge we barter when ever possible and do our best to not use FRNs. Silver, gold and money orders are the preferred method of exchange. There are very few things you will ever need to go to a store for, we teach you everything from contracting, alt power, aquaponics for food, we even have instructors in sewing needle work and so much more. Once you have everything in place you will find you work less have more time with family and more money to spend overall. It is a new life style takes years of study it is easy to get out but just as easy to make a mistake putting you back under their jurisdiction. Status is a one time shot if you mess up your done, not PACs rules but the laws of congress so you want to make sure you learn and do everything right the first time. Remember you have the unlimited right to contract and that is how we do business.
This is the best bit and I fully agree with you! This is what I'm working towards, last year I grew my own veg and it was fantastic! The kids loved it as did we... I wish I could get my partner away from the big stores, but to be honest even here the small stores are more often than not big chains! But so far we home educate, we have scrapped the TV (my partner was a proper soap/crap junkie, so this was a real achievement), and we are cooking more and more meals from scratch, were as before it was all frozen pizzas and the usual crud.
I've looked into alternative energy etc but here in the UK we're so crammed in together I didn't find anything that was feasible (yet).
Hope that helps remember we are rebuilding our local communities I have several papers on my blog to read over anytime at www.drmeola.blogspot.com I highly recommend looking over community survival article and SS examined to answer more of your questions.
Yes that is great, I take it you don't live in the city? I can't see it happening where I live, there is too much cultural diversity (which I don't care about as such) and it does tend to create a divide.
My main issue with going down the "legal" route though is that I just don't see why you should have to! Barring the fact that you're scared to go to prison, which in itself is bowing to their bullying! I don't want to go, but if that's where it leads so be it! You can not live in fear like that.
reply to post by drmeola
Within the next year or so, I am hopefully going down to florida to see my sister. Is there some kind of place you guys have, like a clubhouse type deal that I could check out while I am there?
Within the next year or so, I am hopefully going down to florida to see my sister. Is there some kind of place you guys have, like a clubhouse type deal that I could check out while I am there?
reply to post by fakedirt
Well people do and are so I guess the answer to that one is yes? It's not something I want to do, though I have spent some considerable time looking into it all, there was definitely promise there but I just don't see why I have to answer to other human beings, as we are all created equal! Even answering questions is not something I want to do with the state! Why should I?
Yes, for sure, but so what? Why be scared of the bullies? Is that any way to live? Lawyers certainly will NOT help you whatsoever! They have as much interest as politicians do to keep the status quo going! They get paid big time! I say just refuse to play the game at all... Sure it can lead you to prison but any gang could come and kidnap you! The way I see it I will be costing them even more money that they will never get back from me!
Well I do think this is kind of lazy of you to be honest! What you are saying is why do these people not do the work for you! Are you paying them? Perhaps if you offered them a reasonable payment they would provide that for you? Or be like me and just say sod the lot of them and get on with your life! lol
What is wrong with the medium of video? There is lots of info to digest if you want to go the "legal route" and sometimes it is easier to hear it on video. There are also lots of books on the subject too if you would prefer that method? Btw just as a side note I did not register my son, he's 5 months old now and no problems.
Yes I feel like this too! It is hard to get away in the uk, perhaps we should move? lol... A thought I had was that perhaps if enough people thought the same and chipped in for a piece of land then basically create our own little state. lol... The gypsies managed to live like this for a long time. Why could we not do the same?
Yes it's a tough battle my friend and I know precisely where you're coming from. I believe it is a power in numbers problem to be honest. We need numbers but so many are still fast asleep. I've often wanted to make a website for people with our feeling to congregate and work out what to do. The thing is it all takes so much time! lol
I won't quote the last part because I've ran out of space. You raise some good points but you can not expect someone to just come about and wave a magic wand! Or give you the golden ticket!
Yes, we need land!!!!
Bank accounts I don't see as a problem, what would you want one for? Only accept cash and if you want to shop online or something get a prepaid card. Problem solved.
what i'm getting at is 'is one prepared to spend vast amounts of time and possibly resources delving into all the laws of the uk from the establishment of the magna carta up to present day to avoid any connection with the state?'
Well people do and are so I guess the answer to that one is yes? It's not something I want to do, though I have spent some considerable time looking into it all, there was definitely promise there but I just don't see why I have to answer to other human beings, as we are all created equal! Even answering questions is not something I want to do with the state! Why should I?
avoiding taxes and fines will lead to warrants unless one is 100% watertight with the information to build a case for rebuttal. it takes expensive lawyers in specialised fields to get a handle on the issues at hand. the other option is to pile the law books up on ones desk and hack away. to ignore a warrant or summons will lead to further punishment.
Yes, for sure, but so what? Why be scared of the bullies? Is that any way to live? Lawyers certainly will NOT help you whatsoever! They have as much interest as politicians do to keep the status quo going! They get paid big time! I say just refuse to play the game at all... Sure it can lead you to prison but any gang could come and kidnap you! The way I see it I will be costing them even more money that they will never get back from me!
it would be a fantastic outcome if clifford,hayes or any of the other 'off the grid types' supplied a complete pdf on the matter. why aren't they presenting a definitive guide? do they indeed have a roadmap of procedures to negate court action and social responsibility or is this just a case of inviting as many protestors to the chambers as possible in order to bring the proceeding into disrepute?
Well I do think this is kind of lazy of you to be honest! What you are saying is why do these people not do the work for you! Are you paying them? Perhaps if you offered them a reasonable payment they would provide that for you? Or be like me and just say sod the lot of them and get on with your life! lol
the individuals around my locale who are obsessed with this cannot present to me any solid evidence that they can jump off this system. it is quite amusing when all three were ranting away and some simple questions are answered with 'look at this utoob vid, look at that utoob vid, you'll get the idea.'
What is wrong with the medium of video? There is lots of info to digest if you want to go the "legal route" and sometimes it is easier to hear it on video. There are also lots of books on the subject too if you would prefer that method? Btw just as a side note I did not register my son, he's 5 months old now and no problems.
bottom line imo is that any attempt to get off the grid in the uk is next to impossible unless you know a network of farmers or similar that will allow you to work, crash in the barn and feed you without anyone batting an eyelid as to who you are and what you are doing.
Yes I feel like this too! It is hard to get away in the uk, perhaps we should move? lol... A thought I had was that perhaps if enough people thought the same and chipped in for a piece of land then basically create our own little state. lol... The gypsies managed to live like this for a long time. Why could we not do the same?
this uk corporate structure has far more resources than most of us put together and if only the boys could come up with a pdf that held the possibility of making change, that would be interesting.
Yes it's a tough battle my friend and I know precisely where you're coming from. I believe it is a power in numbers problem to be honest. We need numbers but so many are still fast asleep. I've often wanted to make a website for people with our feeling to congregate and work out what to do. The thing is it all takes so much time! lol
I won't quote the last part because I've ran out of space. You raise some good points but you can not expect someone to just come about and wave a magic wand! Or give you the golden ticket!
Yes, we need land!!!!
Bank accounts I don't see as a problem, what would you want one for? Only accept cash and if you want to shop online or something get a prepaid card. Problem solved.
Hi mee30,
We seem to be of the same thoughts on most cases, I only wish there was more help we could give but our primary studies is the laws of the U.S. in many cases both yours and ours are similar in nature. Here even if one expatriates to another country outside of the Union they still maybe taxed for up to 10 years on income after doing so. Also taxes is a small part here in the U.S because most people from middle class on down get more money back then they ever pay in plus entitlements such as SS, Food Stamps, Welfare of all kinds so most citizens are paid slaves. Chattel property.
Not really in a country area or city I live kind of in the middle in a development and know all my neighbors and the kids with in population around 200 give or take, but we are only a few miles from main street in one direction and a few miles from the big stores in the other. We do live in a house and not apartments with a 1/4 acre on average so we have room for many things. It is like you say especially on alt energy issues harder in a city setting. Here we have well and septic that alone is a big advantage over anyone whom has to pay the city for water and sewer.
We are in support of the de jure Republican form of governance this is the common law ONLY and have a ready well regulated State/Country Militia as it was in the beginning.
We are far from compliant, we just deal with things a little differently. State Nationals never fear prison or jails of any kind for the simple fact THEY have NO jurisdiction over us except for cases of capitol offenses such as murder/ rape ext... State Nationals as a Society with many members SNs or not, if one was to be jailed for some reason that within 24 hours the place would be filled with mass supporters and lawful paperwork to have that person released immediately, but this has never happened to date.
I wish all of us no matter where we may live the best of luck on our journey's to freedom and liberty.
We seem to be of the same thoughts on most cases, I only wish there was more help we could give but our primary studies is the laws of the U.S. in many cases both yours and ours are similar in nature. Here even if one expatriates to another country outside of the Union they still maybe taxed for up to 10 years on income after doing so. Also taxes is a small part here in the U.S because most people from middle class on down get more money back then they ever pay in plus entitlements such as SS, Food Stamps, Welfare of all kinds so most citizens are paid slaves. Chattel property.
Not really in a country area or city I live kind of in the middle in a development and know all my neighbors and the kids with in population around 200 give or take, but we are only a few miles from main street in one direction and a few miles from the big stores in the other. We do live in a house and not apartments with a 1/4 acre on average so we have room for many things. It is like you say especially on alt energy issues harder in a city setting. Here we have well and septic that alone is a big advantage over anyone whom has to pay the city for water and sewer.
We are in support of the de jure Republican form of governance this is the common law ONLY and have a ready well regulated State/Country Militia as it was in the beginning.
We are far from compliant, we just deal with things a little differently. State Nationals never fear prison or jails of any kind for the simple fact THEY have NO jurisdiction over us except for cases of capitol offenses such as murder/ rape ext... State Nationals as a Society with many members SNs or not, if one was to be jailed for some reason that within 24 hours the place would be filled with mass supporters and lawful paperwork to have that person released immediately, but this has never happened to date.
I wish all of us no matter where we may live the best of luck on our journey's to freedom and liberty.
reply to post by drmeola
Well that's good then ... It would be boring if we all thought exactly the same though ay? On the topic of tax I know what you're saying though I still think it is a major problem because all those freebies you're talking about are not free and are passed on to future generations. I do think it will come to a head soon though, what is the debt now, 15 trillion+? If it all comes crashing down before enough people wake up I fear for the worst!
The population of your reserve is like one of our village areas here in the uk! I would love to live in a village but the price you pay there is well above my means at the moment. It sounds Ideal where you live though! How do you see the problem of upscaling? Like taking what you're talking about to the big cities? Do you think it is possible? Oh and in the US isn't there a small state that is aiming for freedom? It's something to do with porkfest, I'm sure you have heard of it. What are your thoughts on that? They seem to have something good going for them! If I could I would move out there! Only problem is I do not want to BEG the government to allow me to move (get a passport).
The key part here is "as it was in the beginning", you see, they already tried it! Yes it worked for a while but look at america now! Small government doesn't work and never will! It never has! How many times has it been tried now? It will always grow! How are you going to deal with that?
It's great that you have that kind of support around you! That alone must be truly liberating! I'm envious! How does your community deal with the unspoken (here against the T&C), if you know what I mean? If you can do what you like why not create a huge farm? Perhaps you do? If you don't how do you think the "authorities" would deal with you then? Also what is to stop the government outlawing what you're doing? Surely if enough people did it they will just change the rules? Because if they didn't they would go out of business! lol...
Thanks and the feeling is mutual although it seems you do not need my sentiments! You're half way there already! Good on ya.
We seem to be of the same thoughts on most cases, I only wish there was more help we could give but our primary studies is the laws of the U.S. in many cases both yours and ours are similar in nature. Here even if one expatriates to another country outside of the Union they still maybe taxed for up to 10 years on income after doing so. Also taxes is a small part here in the U.S because most people from middle class on down get more money back then they ever pay in plus entitlements such as SS, Food Stamps, Welfare of all kinds so most citizens are paid slaves. Chattel property.
Well that's good then ... It would be boring if we all thought exactly the same though ay? On the topic of tax I know what you're saying though I still think it is a major problem because all those freebies you're talking about are not free and are passed on to future generations. I do think it will come to a head soon though, what is the debt now, 15 trillion+? If it all comes crashing down before enough people wake up I fear for the worst!
Not really in a country area or city I live kind of in the middle in a development and know all my neighbors and the kids with in population around 200 give or take, but we are only a few miles from main street in one direction and a few miles from the big stores in the other. We do live in a house and not apartments with a 1/4 acre on average so we have room for many things. It is like you say especially on alt energy issues harder in a city setting. Here we have well and septic that alone is a big advantage over anyone whom has to pay the city for water and sewer.
The population of your reserve is like one of our village areas here in the uk! I would love to live in a village but the price you pay there is well above my means at the moment. It sounds Ideal where you live though! How do you see the problem of upscaling? Like taking what you're talking about to the big cities? Do you think it is possible? Oh and in the US isn't there a small state that is aiming for freedom? It's something to do with porkfest, I'm sure you have heard of it. What are your thoughts on that? They seem to have something good going for them! If I could I would move out there! Only problem is I do not want to BEG the government to allow me to move (get a passport).
We are in support of the de jure Republican form of governance this is the common law ONLY and have a ready well regulated State/Country Militia as it was in the beginning.
The key part here is "as it was in the beginning", you see, they already tried it! Yes it worked for a while but look at america now! Small government doesn't work and never will! It never has! How many times has it been tried now? It will always grow! How are you going to deal with that?
We are far from compliant, we just deal with things a little differently. State Nationals never fear prison or jails of any kind for the simple fact THEY have NO jurisdiction over us except for cases of capitol offenses such as murder/ rape ext... State Nationals as a Society with many members SNs or not, if one was to be jailed for some reason that within 24 hours the place would be filled with mass supporters and lawful paperwork to have that person released immediately, but this has never happened to date.
It's great that you have that kind of support around you! That alone must be truly liberating! I'm envious! How does your community deal with the unspoken (here against the T&C), if you know what I mean? If you can do what you like why not create a huge farm? Perhaps you do? If you don't how do you think the "authorities" would deal with you then? Also what is to stop the government outlawing what you're doing? Surely if enough people did it they will just change the rules? Because if they didn't they would go out of business! lol...
I wish all of us no matter where we may live the best of luck on our journey's to freedom and liberty.
Thanks and the feeling is mutual although it seems you do not need my sentiments! You're half way there already! Good on ya.
Hey I don't want to put this on you, but I'm hoping you can take a look at this and possibly help a guy out... This is the thread
www.abovetopsecret.com....
He sounds like he's having a hell of a time at the moment and you seem like the man for the job! Or at least you could point him in the right direction.
Thanks.
He sounds like he's having a hell of a time at the moment and you seem like the man for the job! Or at least you could point him in the right direction.
Thanks.
reply to post by drmeola
Thanks for the info. Can you in you own words describe, what your specific slice of life is like to live on any given day? What lifestyle do you have to accept as a free person? Do you have to build your own stuff, grow your own food, take second hand clothes, watch an old tv repairing it yourself? Do you have to wait for months to get a phone turned on? Are their friends who like, bring you over moonshine, they made in freedomland? While all of these things are like living under Magna Carta or am I mistaken? Paint us a picture, do you have to pay for things only in silver, can you go out for dinner, or go play golf?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the info. Can you in you own words describe, what your specific slice of life is like to live on any given day? What lifestyle do you have to accept as a free person? Do you have to build your own stuff, grow your own food, take second hand clothes, watch an old tv repairing it yourself? Do you have to wait for months to get a phone turned on? Are their friends who like, bring you over moonshine, they made in freedomland? While all of these things are like living under Magna Carta or am I mistaken? Paint us a picture, do you have to pay for things only in silver, can you go out for dinner, or go play golf?
Thanks in advance.
reply to post by mee30
Hi mee30,
Looked into that case you linked unfortunately he has already take the clean house deal and moved out, he has to wait and hope for a class action to come about, this has happened to a lot of people in the past couple of years.
The U.S banking will collapse shortly many bankers have already jumped ship, it is less then a year away that the Federal Reserves charter to print money expires, there is talk of that being renewed if so afraid this will cause another Civil War and if not renewed well lets say there still might be up roars in the streets. So either way the U.S as we know it today is done. IMHO.
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No problems with up scale around my little section and the Villages as it is titled in also about out of room to expand. Many States mainly in the South have been fighting for freedom ever since the so called Civil War, some are more freedom minded if they are small the larger the populace in an area the more you see the Police State taking shape.
Agreed that small government always gets big but it is also true that the biggest of governments also fail ie Rome, U.S will be the next empire to fail/fall. We are here to help pick up the pieces if there are any left.
The farm idea is covered in my community survival article on my blog, plus my County is considered the horse capital of the world so plenty of farms some within walking distance and just next door I have access to my neighbors citrus trees that I am very grateful for. A close friend of mine located in another state has a 250 acre farm that we have set up as a safe house for when the SHTF, with cattle, cows, chicken and plenty of greens, fish and wildlife. So for me am as prepared as one could be if/when the man comes calling just pray it never comes down to it.
They have tried in some areas of the UNION to outlaw food growing of your own but not with much luck the people will never put up with that crap and they have backed off, just have to follow for non-state nationals the codes and make sure you do NOT sell, even given it away could in some places get you in trouble and that is nuts, the charge they put on you is by your actions the local farm markets business has been hurt since the good you gave for free would have been purchased and their for by your actions has done harm to the local economy. Bunch of horse # but that is how they keep the pressure on, so just have to be careful it is easier to give away illegal drugs then food, we call them the food police when citations are given for this reason. But lawfully it is a code and enforceable whether one agrees with it or not, and luckily its only in a few counties around the Union.
Hi mee30,
Looked into that case you linked unfortunately he has already take the clean house deal and moved out, he has to wait and hope for a class action to come about, this has happened to a lot of people in the past couple of years.
The U.S banking will collapse shortly many bankers have already jumped ship, it is less then a year away that the Federal Reserves charter to print money expires, there is talk of that being renewed if so afraid this will cause another Civil War and if not renewed well lets say there still might be up roars in the streets. So either way the U.S as we know it today is done. IMHO.
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No problems with up scale around my little section and the Villages as it is titled in also about out of room to expand. Many States mainly in the South have been fighting for freedom ever since the so called Civil War, some are more freedom minded if they are small the larger the populace in an area the more you see the Police State taking shape.
Agreed that small government always gets big but it is also true that the biggest of governments also fail ie Rome, U.S will be the next empire to fail/fall. We are here to help pick up the pieces if there are any left.
The farm idea is covered in my community survival article on my blog, plus my County is considered the horse capital of the world so plenty of farms some within walking distance and just next door I have access to my neighbors citrus trees that I am very grateful for. A close friend of mine located in another state has a 250 acre farm that we have set up as a safe house for when the SHTF, with cattle, cows, chicken and plenty of greens, fish and wildlife. So for me am as prepared as one could be if/when the man comes calling just pray it never comes down to it.
They have tried in some areas of the UNION to outlaw food growing of your own but not with much luck the people will never put up with that crap and they have backed off, just have to follow for non-state nationals the codes and make sure you do NOT sell, even given it away could in some places get you in trouble and that is nuts, the charge they put on you is by your actions the local farm markets business has been hurt since the good you gave for free would have been purchased and their for by your actions has done harm to the local economy. Bunch of horse # but that is how they keep the pressure on, so just have to be careful it is easier to give away illegal drugs then food, we call them the food police when citations are given for this reason. But lawfully it is a code and enforceable whether one agrees with it or not, and luckily its only in a few counties around the Union.
Hi matthewgraybeal,
Really as far as everyday life little has changed as a free person, we just do some things a little differently but by choice not by force or law, moonshine, pot growing lol if your into that stuff you can on your property for self consumption just can not sell it. We drive have our own plates and IDs, you can even have loans for cars mortgages and a bank account if we want one but do not recommend ever getting one myself, its not that we can't have these things as State Nationals its in the way we contract for those things that change since we have no Social Security cards/ID any more so you have to deal/contract with buy here pay here for a car ie private loans not big banker loans its a form of bartering. Housing loans done the same way and several lenders support our cause so no worries there.
The big thing besides doing our best to not use FRNs is to live debt free and help our fellow neighbors out in any way one can. I have a nice house 1/4 acre of land, cable tv and internet, phone service house and cell phone, the point is to live within your means debt free and enjoy life. Without the fear of the man hiding around the corner looking to give you a summons for some BS statue violation and realizing if you mess up financially your on your own as far as the government entitlements go but this what the church was designed to do in the first place and is a great place to start a small independent community. In our circle we have doctors, dentist, mechanics, growers, builders ext... all bartering and sharing their skills with one another as it was meant to be.
Example: The average person even today say they need the house painted instead of paying a big contractor to do the job the owner buys the paint, pizza and beer in a weekend the house gets painted the women cook the kids play and everyone has a great time. The same goes for any projects that may come up, in all cases be it our doctors and dentist to builders and mechanics the only charge is for materials all labor is shared by your individual trade skills. Learning to barter is easy and lots of fun once you start, aquaponic system can be so small in a one bedroom apartment to grow sprouts to large commercial size only limited to the space available and the kids have a blast.
We exchange like everyone else clothes when the kids or adults out grow them if their still in good shape just like I am sure you do with siblings and friends as well, once you have your community working together the MAN can not stop you and you will find you have very little need for a lot of money.
The best way I have heard us described would be close to the Amish except for the religious aspects of them and use of utilities. All these things can be done by anyone you do not have to be a State National in fact their are few State Nationals in a single area since we are all in different States ie Countries so its all about setting up a local community network of people working together for a better way of life, just have to stop chasing that all might dollar, and start caring about someone other then yourself. Its this me me me attitude that has help to destroy America, everyone wanting something for nothing ie entitlements instead of working for it in some means or another. Or slapping it on some credit card just so they can have it today instead of at a date further down the line or simply doing without. Its a change in life style that everyone can do, SN or not and if all would do this just imagine how quickly peace will flow over the land.
Well hope that helps answer some of your questions.
Thanks again for the post.
Really as far as everyday life little has changed as a free person, we just do some things a little differently but by choice not by force or law, moonshine, pot growing lol if your into that stuff you can on your property for self consumption just can not sell it. We drive have our own plates and IDs, you can even have loans for cars mortgages and a bank account if we want one but do not recommend ever getting one myself, its not that we can't have these things as State Nationals its in the way we contract for those things that change since we have no Social Security cards/ID any more so you have to deal/contract with buy here pay here for a car ie private loans not big banker loans its a form of bartering. Housing loans done the same way and several lenders support our cause so no worries there.
The big thing besides doing our best to not use FRNs is to live debt free and help our fellow neighbors out in any way one can. I have a nice house 1/4 acre of land, cable tv and internet, phone service house and cell phone, the point is to live within your means debt free and enjoy life. Without the fear of the man hiding around the corner looking to give you a summons for some BS statue violation and realizing if you mess up financially your on your own as far as the government entitlements go but this what the church was designed to do in the first place and is a great place to start a small independent community. In our circle we have doctors, dentist, mechanics, growers, builders ext... all bartering and sharing their skills with one another as it was meant to be.
Example: The average person even today say they need the house painted instead of paying a big contractor to do the job the owner buys the paint, pizza and beer in a weekend the house gets painted the women cook the kids play and everyone has a great time. The same goes for any projects that may come up, in all cases be it our doctors and dentist to builders and mechanics the only charge is for materials all labor is shared by your individual trade skills. Learning to barter is easy and lots of fun once you start, aquaponic system can be so small in a one bedroom apartment to grow sprouts to large commercial size only limited to the space available and the kids have a blast.
We exchange like everyone else clothes when the kids or adults out grow them if their still in good shape just like I am sure you do with siblings and friends as well, once you have your community working together the MAN can not stop you and you will find you have very little need for a lot of money.
The best way I have heard us described would be close to the Amish except for the religious aspects of them and use of utilities. All these things can be done by anyone you do not have to be a State National in fact their are few State Nationals in a single area since we are all in different States ie Countries so its all about setting up a local community network of people working together for a better way of life, just have to stop chasing that all might dollar, and start caring about someone other then yourself. Its this me me me attitude that has help to destroy America, everyone wanting something for nothing ie entitlements instead of working for it in some means or another. Or slapping it on some credit card just so they can have it today instead of at a date further down the line or simply doing without. Its a change in life style that everyone can do, SN or not and if all would do this just imagine how quickly peace will flow over the land.
Well hope that helps answer some of your questions.
Thanks again for the post.
edit on 19-4-2012 by drmeola because: (no reason given)
I like what I hear, the Amish have a certain appeal to me, as I am a Hereditary Mennonite, My colonial ancestors were German speaking, Swiss
Protestant Reformers, who settled in PA. I really do enjoy helping folks with projects, and I hate having to cost people money as I have been not able
to work with any ease under the current economic state, and educational bias of no college degree. I'm plenty capable of physical labor, and have a
singing voice which lights up broadway and can make women weak in the knees. hehehe
The movie The Village, and The Amish "minus the stuffiness" seemed like such a good Idea. I am actively involved In Re-Enactment type social clubs "The Empire of Chivalry and Steel", and "The New England Role-playing Organization" More active in the latter these days.
I'm not entirely sure how one would go about, making a living and also living in these conditions. Is there a list of steps, you could publish as to how to become this version of free. Like a steps 1-20 of how?
The movie The Village, and The Amish "minus the stuffiness" seemed like such a good Idea. I am actively involved In Re-Enactment type social clubs "The Empire of Chivalry and Steel", and "The New England Role-playing Organization" More active in the latter these days.
I'm not entirely sure how one would go about, making a living and also living in these conditions. Is there a list of steps, you could publish as to how to become this version of free. Like a steps 1-20 of how?
Well I can tell you from experience the OP is not being entirely truthful here. Sure no one has ever been arrested for declaring their status as a
state inhabitant rather then a 14th amendment federal citizen. What he fails to tell is that this will in no way protect you from either state or
federal corporate mafioso. Trust me if they want to impose their will on you they will because they can and they don't give a damn about your status.
I am sure the OP will take issue with that and so I invite him to show some definitive proof of how such status protects those claiming it from corporate mafioso. Prepare for lots of excuses as to why he can't or won't provide any. There is a hint in his latest reply before this one about how he does not open carry in his country of Florida. If this status actually had any real power he would do that with no worries but he shows he is worried his status will not protect him because he knows I speak truth.
So some of these guys manage to stay off the radar obey all the corporate statutes anyways and then claim their changed status has kept them out of jail. Be especially wary if he offers to help you change your status for a fee of course or sell you a course on how to do it...
Having said that I do support what he says about creating our own self reliant communities and working together to stay out of the corporate realm.
Let the games begin or not I am not really interested in arguing it much just my 3 cents from many years of experience
PS if you are to try something like this is much better to try it with a community of like minded folks in an area were you can stand in numbers.
I am sure the OP will take issue with that and so I invite him to show some definitive proof of how such status protects those claiming it from corporate mafioso. Prepare for lots of excuses as to why he can't or won't provide any. There is a hint in his latest reply before this one about how he does not open carry in his country of Florida. If this status actually had any real power he would do that with no worries but he shows he is worried his status will not protect him because he knows I speak truth.
So some of these guys manage to stay off the radar obey all the corporate statutes anyways and then claim their changed status has kept them out of jail. Be especially wary if he offers to help you change your status for a fee of course or sell you a course on how to do it...
Having said that I do support what he says about creating our own self reliant communities and working together to stay out of the corporate realm.
Let the games begin or not I am not really interested in arguing it much just my 3 cents from many years of experience
PS if you are to try something like this is much better to try it with a community of like minded folks in an area were you can stand in numbers.
edit on 19-4-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
reply to post by matthewgraybeal
The community steps are easy just starts with you and it sounds like you are on the way, help a neighbor see them out mowing the lawn grab yours go help its done in no time next thing you know your sitting down drinking a beer and talk. Communications is the key, then/or you could throw a block party just print out a quick invite bring your own bottle and one dish or snack, before you know it you just met all your neighbors and in talking discover their strong points and weaknesses. Doing odd jobs without setting a price let them pay what they can, sometimes you may get little other times well you just might be surprised.
Status Correction begins with your studies and absorption of the material recommend getting our text book the TRA short for The Red Amendment once your have done all the homework and feel you are ready then request to start the process at that time the papers will be sent in a specific order for you to fill out with full instructions as you go takes about 90 days on average provide you are debt free minus a car or mortgage everyone's situation is different and some have taken a lot longer to get everything done especially getting out of debt. Not everyone is cut out to be a SN but everyone is able to learn and educate others and be an active member of the PAC family.
To me the life style and education is more important then the status it self, this why our numbers are great in the family and there is not a vas number of SNs as of today. Just to many people are so deeply attached to the system makes it almost impossible for them to get out. And others have already retired and relying on SS to keep a roof over their heads, the process is best for the younger generation before they get to deep in the system and before they start contracting without their knowledge with the defacto system. Most importantly before they get into debt, so no matter what your age get the education teach your children and save them so at 18 they can correct their status and never have to be in our shoes.
The community steps are easy just starts with you and it sounds like you are on the way, help a neighbor see them out mowing the lawn grab yours go help its done in no time next thing you know your sitting down drinking a beer and talk. Communications is the key, then/or you could throw a block party just print out a quick invite bring your own bottle and one dish or snack, before you know it you just met all your neighbors and in talking discover their strong points and weaknesses. Doing odd jobs without setting a price let them pay what they can, sometimes you may get little other times well you just might be surprised.
Status Correction begins with your studies and absorption of the material recommend getting our text book the TRA short for The Red Amendment once your have done all the homework and feel you are ready then request to start the process at that time the papers will be sent in a specific order for you to fill out with full instructions as you go takes about 90 days on average provide you are debt free minus a car or mortgage everyone's situation is different and some have taken a lot longer to get everything done especially getting out of debt. Not everyone is cut out to be a SN but everyone is able to learn and educate others and be an active member of the PAC family.
To me the life style and education is more important then the status it self, this why our numbers are great in the family and there is not a vas number of SNs as of today. Just to many people are so deeply attached to the system makes it almost impossible for them to get out. And others have already retired and relying on SS to keep a roof over their heads, the process is best for the younger generation before they get to deep in the system and before they start contracting without their knowledge with the defacto system. Most importantly before they get into debt, so no matter what your age get the education teach your children and save them so at 18 they can correct their status and never have to be in our shoes.
reply to post by drmeola
Ahhhh I see, I didn't realize he had actually already left! It gets me so angry that other human beings can do this to people and call it a JOB! What kind of job is it to rip off people? It's a messed up world we live in! Thanks for having a look anyway.
Yes but how do you think it will work out with bigger states? Do you think people will have to spread out more or something? You are lucky to be in america to be honest, at least you have the option to move around somewhat. Here in the uk we're packed in like sardines! There is nowhere to go, perhaps wales is possible. But it has a pretty high crime rate due to high unemployment. Couple that with the fact that the welsh are not too keen on the english (which is understandable). To be honest I often feel trapped here.
Yes but then what? You instate a new small government that will eventually turn massive once again? See this is where anarchism comes into play! It's the only logical choice.
Sorry I think you mis-understood me, it's my fault I should of been clearer but ATS does not like the subject I'm talking about. I'm talking about so called "illegal" farms! lol Drugs. Whatever your personnel opinion is of them they are a viable profit source. As the codes and statutes and whatnot do not apply to you, why not?
It's great that you have it all sown up! Good on you, I think you are right to be prepared, it's coming down and it can't be much longer now.
Yeah I've seen various articles on this, it is crazy stuff! They are killing pigs and harassing raw milk producers. Among many other things. It's totally diabolical! Yet there are still people that defend the state! It is absolutely beyond me!
When will people wake up and just say enough is enough? I talk to people all the time regarding these subjects and I tell them that tax is theft and immoral etc. They look at ME like I'm gone out! I don't know how to change things and I feel totally helpless and demoralized most of the time. People are just concerned with the here and now and they have the "I'm alright jack" attitude!
Time and time again the government/police/media show themselves to be corrupt and yet they do NOTHING! I tell them that T.V actually damages their kids brains! I show them the studies and they just carry on! WTF is wrong with people? I just don't get it! All they are concerned with is the latest T.V show or some other nonsensical B.S like sports or whatnot!
I want to physically SHAKE them sometimes, maybe slap them! lol (i wouldn't of course).
Looked into that case you linked unfortunately he has already take the clean house deal and moved out, he has to wait and hope for a class action to come about, this has happened to a lot of people in the past couple of years.
Ahhhh I see, I didn't realize he had actually already left! It gets me so angry that other human beings can do this to people and call it a JOB! What kind of job is it to rip off people? It's a messed up world we live in! Thanks for having a look anyway.
No problems with up scale around my little section and the Villages as it is titled in also about out of room to expand. Many States mainly in the South have been fighting for freedom ever since the so called Civil War, some are more freedom minded if they are small the larger the populace in an area the more you see the Police State taking shape.
Yes but how do you think it will work out with bigger states? Do you think people will have to spread out more or something? You are lucky to be in america to be honest, at least you have the option to move around somewhat. Here in the uk we're packed in like sardines! There is nowhere to go, perhaps wales is possible. But it has a pretty high crime rate due to high unemployment. Couple that with the fact that the welsh are not too keen on the english (which is understandable). To be honest I often feel trapped here.
Agreed that small government always gets big but it is also true that the biggest of governments also fail ie Rome, U.S will be the next empire to fail/fall. We are here to help pick up the pieces if there are any left.
Yes but then what? You instate a new small government that will eventually turn massive once again? See this is where anarchism comes into play! It's the only logical choice.
The farm idea is covered in my community survival article on my blog, plus my County is considered the horse capital of the world so plenty of farms some within walking distance and just next door I have access to my neighbors citrus trees that I am very grateful for. A close friend of mine located in another state has a 250 acre farm that we have set up as a safe house for when the SHTF, with cattle, cows, chicken and plenty of greens, fish and wildlife. So for me am as prepared as one could be if/when the man comes calling just pray it never comes down to it.
Sorry I think you mis-understood me, it's my fault I should of been clearer but ATS does not like the subject I'm talking about. I'm talking about so called "illegal" farms! lol Drugs. Whatever your personnel opinion is of them they are a viable profit source. As the codes and statutes and whatnot do not apply to you, why not?
It's great that you have it all sown up! Good on you, I think you are right to be prepared, it's coming down and it can't be much longer now.
They have tried in some areas of the UNION to outlaw food growing of your own but not with much luck the people will never put up with that crap and they have backed off, just have to follow for non-state nationals the codes and make sure you do NOT sell, even given it away could in some places get you in trouble and that is nuts, the charge they put on you is by your actions the local farm markets business has been hurt since the good you gave for free would have been purchased and their for by your actions has done harm to the local economy. Bunch of horse # but that is how they keep the pressure on, so just have to be careful it is easier to give away illegal drugs then food, we call them the food police when citations are given for this reason. But lawfully it is a code and enforceable whether one agrees with it or not, and luckily its only in a few counties around the Union.
Yeah I've seen various articles on this, it is crazy stuff! They are killing pigs and harassing raw milk producers. Among many other things. It's totally diabolical! Yet there are still people that defend the state! It is absolutely beyond me!
When will people wake up and just say enough is enough? I talk to people all the time regarding these subjects and I tell them that tax is theft and immoral etc. They look at ME like I'm gone out! I don't know how to change things and I feel totally helpless and demoralized most of the time. People are just concerned with the here and now and they have the "I'm alright jack" attitude!
Time and time again the government/police/media show themselves to be corrupt and yet they do NOTHING! I tell them that T.V actually damages their kids brains! I show them the studies and they just carry on! WTF is wrong with people? I just don't get it! All they are concerned with is the latest T.V show or some other nonsensical B.S like sports or whatnot!
I want to physically SHAKE them sometimes, maybe slap them! lol (i wouldn't of course).
reply to post by hawkiye
Hi hawkiye,
First as you stated correctly (no one has ever been arrested for declaring their status) status does protect you from private law and puts you in the common law. However you are correct in the fact that if the military police power come rolling down your road they will not be checking paperwork before opening fire upon citizens, so what's your point.
Second though not sure you just might be an agent provocateur if not sure what that is look it up. I hide nothing and answer all questions to the very best of my ability does this mean I am right all the time, no way, however all documents are there for you to study and research for yourself FREE of charge.
Third and most importantly we go to them in peace, to keep the peace and hope to restore the peace someday, and only out of respect for the citizens I live with, I would not open carry since the citizens are not use to seeing this sight in some time since Florida changed its open carry laws, again that is under revue it has nothing to do with being afraid of the officers or the need to push my right to do so. We do NOT obey any corporate statue private laws except those we choose, and that is why we will NOT help correct just anyone how asks for it. Because we surely do not need people whom want to go use their full power of status running around trying to take over the government trying to become the next elitist and causing/forcing their hand in total take over locking everyone up in FEMA camps.
You mention FEE, first nothing in this world is free, except for PACs education that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to lawfully correct their status, but whether they do it on their own or not they have to pay the file ling fees to the court, since the law requires you to ask permission from the government to expatriate and all forms must be filed in a specific order with the proper FEE attached.
PAC does have a textbook NOT required but recommended and can be purchased on line for a donation of 35 dollars or from another whom is selling the book often for 25 dollars again this is NOT required and most of the books are all printed in house the cost is to cover the paper and ink to print it with only pennies of profit per book. The bulk sales, block of 10 books sell for 22.50 per book and that is why we sell them at events for 25.00, yep sounds like we are getting rich doesn't it. However this will be the best investment in ones education they could ever make.
Beyond the file ling fees all correction are taken on a case to case bases, some people need little help and have few problems so other then what they want to donate for the help their is no charge. And for some who have worked with us and has committed time and energy learning and promoting helping with their individual skills and shown they are serious about status the group even helps pay for the file ling fees.
Remember freedom is not free, even the tree of liberty from time to time must bleed.
So as you can see no excuses only truth and facts as it applies in law. Oh and the PROOF is in every pdf with footnotes law book definitions and court cases if they apply for anyone to look up and verify as I recommend everyone to do. If something is an opinion it is clearly stated as such.
So nice try playing at a distracter but you will quickly learn no PAC member will ever avoid any request for information or hid anything, (except our process) for the reasons mentioned earlier. We have been around close to 15 years with zero complaints or issues and no one else in the freedom movement can claim the same. The reason simply is because we do it the only lawful way passed by congress prior the 14th all others are workarounds none of which has any standing in today's courtrooms.
Best of luck to you in your journey.
Hi hawkiye,
First as you stated correctly (no one has ever been arrested for declaring their status) status does protect you from private law and puts you in the common law. However you are correct in the fact that if the military police power come rolling down your road they will not be checking paperwork before opening fire upon citizens, so what's your point.
Second though not sure you just might be an agent provocateur if not sure what that is look it up. I hide nothing and answer all questions to the very best of my ability does this mean I am right all the time, no way, however all documents are there for you to study and research for yourself FREE of charge.
Third and most importantly we go to them in peace, to keep the peace and hope to restore the peace someday, and only out of respect for the citizens I live with, I would not open carry since the citizens are not use to seeing this sight in some time since Florida changed its open carry laws, again that is under revue it has nothing to do with being afraid of the officers or the need to push my right to do so. We do NOT obey any corporate statue private laws except those we choose, and that is why we will NOT help correct just anyone how asks for it. Because we surely do not need people whom want to go use their full power of status running around trying to take over the government trying to become the next elitist and causing/forcing their hand in total take over locking everyone up in FEMA camps.
You mention FEE, first nothing in this world is free, except for PACs education that anyone with half a brain could figure out how to lawfully correct their status, but whether they do it on their own or not they have to pay the file ling fees to the court, since the law requires you to ask permission from the government to expatriate and all forms must be filed in a specific order with the proper FEE attached.
PAC does have a textbook NOT required but recommended and can be purchased on line for a donation of 35 dollars or from another whom is selling the book often for 25 dollars again this is NOT required and most of the books are all printed in house the cost is to cover the paper and ink to print it with only pennies of profit per book. The bulk sales, block of 10 books sell for 22.50 per book and that is why we sell them at events for 25.00, yep sounds like we are getting rich doesn't it. However this will be the best investment in ones education they could ever make.
Beyond the file ling fees all correction are taken on a case to case bases, some people need little help and have few problems so other then what they want to donate for the help their is no charge. And for some who have worked with us and has committed time and energy learning and promoting helping with their individual skills and shown they are serious about status the group even helps pay for the file ling fees.
Remember freedom is not free, even the tree of liberty from time to time must bleed.
So as you can see no excuses only truth and facts as it applies in law. Oh and the PROOF is in every pdf with footnotes law book definitions and court cases if they apply for anyone to look up and verify as I recommend everyone to do. If something is an opinion it is clearly stated as such.
So nice try playing at a distracter but you will quickly learn no PAC member will ever avoid any request for information or hid anything, (except our process) for the reasons mentioned earlier. We have been around close to 15 years with zero complaints or issues and no one else in the freedom movement can claim the same. The reason simply is because we do it the only lawful way passed by congress prior the 14th all others are workarounds none of which has any standing in today's courtrooms.
Best of luck to you in your journey.
Dang mee30 I say those things to people all the time,
A big city trucks in a large portion of their goods such as food, clothing ext....so it will be difficult to become independent especially since the water and sewer is controlled by the system.
You could get together with others of like mind buy a good amount of land everyone working together but the key is to evenly divide that land into equal parts among the investors as to NOT look like some sort of religious cult but more like the original colonies. This is good idea for those in the UNION not so sure how much land you have in your area to do something like that. It is always better to get out of any big city in my opinion it is a trap with few exits if/when the SHTF.
If your truly looking just to get out you may be able to get around the passport issue, one idea again not sure I would look into a one way passage on a cruise ship forgot what the term is called but its cheap (port relocation) I think its called, anyway get on a ship if you have the funds, get over into Ireland or any place one way, from there get another to the America if you cant get a one way directly here, I think this can be done without passport. You can also look for private ships/boats and secure passage with one of them, if the will is there, there is always a means. In most cases a passport is used really to get into a place not leave. You will have to do some research on that on your end its just an idea. Best of luck. And if you real just want out screw them get the dang thing come over legally even if you have to get a round trip ticket just never use it to return and get lost in the Union like so many others have done over the years.
You could go to a U.S Embassy and speak with them sure they could help you defect as well then when you get here you will not be here unlawfully. Just a couple of different options again I know little about your governmental laws, have not been back to London myself since the 70s it was beautiful back then, but wouldn't catch me dead there now.
A big city trucks in a large portion of their goods such as food, clothing ext....so it will be difficult to become independent especially since the water and sewer is controlled by the system.
You could get together with others of like mind buy a good amount of land everyone working together but the key is to evenly divide that land into equal parts among the investors as to NOT look like some sort of religious cult but more like the original colonies. This is good idea for those in the UNION not so sure how much land you have in your area to do something like that. It is always better to get out of any big city in my opinion it is a trap with few exits if/when the SHTF.
If your truly looking just to get out you may be able to get around the passport issue, one idea again not sure I would look into a one way passage on a cruise ship forgot what the term is called but its cheap (port relocation) I think its called, anyway get on a ship if you have the funds, get over into Ireland or any place one way, from there get another to the America if you cant get a one way directly here, I think this can be done without passport. You can also look for private ships/boats and secure passage with one of them, if the will is there, there is always a means. In most cases a passport is used really to get into a place not leave. You will have to do some research on that on your end its just an idea. Best of luck. And if you real just want out screw them get the dang thing come over legally even if you have to get a round trip ticket just never use it to return and get lost in the Union like so many others have done over the years.
You could go to a U.S Embassy and speak with them sure they could help you defect as well then when you get here you will not be here unlawfully. Just a couple of different options again I know little about your governmental laws, have not been back to London myself since the 70s it was beautiful back then, but wouldn't catch me dead there now.
reply to post by drmeola
Yeah it's not quite the same here though, water and electric/gas are all private companies. Not that I want anything to do with those rip off merchants either though! I saw an article not so long ago about a lad from africa that made a wind turbine for his village! I've considered trying that out, though it would probably be ripped down due to planning laws! lol..
Yeah but it's easier said than done to be honest. I'd be more than up for it but most would view me as a gypo and not want to join because of the stigma! I think gypsies have so much right!
I'm not dead in the center of the city, I'm on the outskirts and it's quite nice round here. It's just everyone tends to keep themselves to themselves and there are lots of asians that again tend to stick to themselves.
Yeah I have read bits and pieces about the workarounds, apparently there is a way. But money is an issue, or rather the lack of it! lol. Also I have 3 kids and a partner. They would go with me but again it just makes things that much harder. The other thing is I have a criminal record. Nothing major just silly things from when I was a kid really, though a couple years ago I was caught with 1 gram of green matter! I think america tends to frown upon that quite a bit! Btw my recent addition we have not "registered". So getting him across would be another issue in and of itself!
But yeah some food for thought thanks.
London is a cesspit! I went there recently during the "occupy protest". I went to talk to people really and to network but I ended up just having a party! lol I did speak to some good heads, though was too out of it to collect numbers! lol
Anyway I was shocked at the stench present in london, it was raw sewage smell mate! Made me feel sick! I only stayed the weekend as my partner was pregnant at the time.
I don't know what I'll do just yet, I have plenty of figuring out to do.
Dang mee30 I say those things to people all the time, A big city trucks in a large portion of their goods such as food, clothing ext....so it will be difficult to become independent especially since the water and sewer is controlled by the system.
Yeah it's not quite the same here though, water and electric/gas are all private companies. Not that I want anything to do with those rip off merchants either though! I saw an article not so long ago about a lad from africa that made a wind turbine for his village! I've considered trying that out, though it would probably be ripped down due to planning laws! lol..
You could get together with others of like mind buy a good amount of land everyone working together but the key is to evenly divide that land into equal parts among the investors as to NOT look like some sort of religious cult but more like the original colonies. This is good idea for those in the UNION not so sure how much land you have in your area to do something like that. It is always better to get out of any big city in my opinion it is a trap with few exits if/when the SHTF.
Yeah but it's easier said than done to be honest. I'd be more than up for it but most would view me as a gypo and not want to join because of the stigma! I think gypsies have so much right!
I'm not dead in the center of the city, I'm on the outskirts and it's quite nice round here. It's just everyone tends to keep themselves to themselves and there are lots of asians that again tend to stick to themselves.
If your truly looking just to get out you may be able to get around the passport issue, one idea again not sure I would look into a one way passage on a cruise ship forgot what the term is called but its cheap (port relocation) I think its called, anyway get on a ship if you have the funds, get over into Ireland or any place one way, from there get another to the America if you cant get a one way directly here, I think this can be done without passport. You can also look for private ships/boats and secure passage with one of them, if the will is there, there is always a means. In most cases a passport is used really to get into a place not leave. You will have to do some research on that on your end its just an idea. Best of luck. And if you real just want out screw them get the dang thing come over legally even if you have to get a round trip ticket just never use it to return and get lost in the Union like so many others have done over the years.
Yeah I have read bits and pieces about the workarounds, apparently there is a way. But money is an issue, or rather the lack of it! lol. Also I have 3 kids and a partner. They would go with me but again it just makes things that much harder. The other thing is I have a criminal record. Nothing major just silly things from when I was a kid really, though a couple years ago I was caught with 1 gram of green matter! I think america tends to frown upon that quite a bit! Btw my recent addition we have not "registered". So getting him across would be another issue in and of itself!
But yeah some food for thought thanks.
You could go to a U.S Embassy and speak with them sure they could help you defect as well then when you get here you will not be here unlawfully. Just a couple of different options again I know little about your governmental laws, have not been back to London myself since the 70s it was beautiful back then, but wouldn't catch me dead there now.
London is a cesspit! I went there recently during the "occupy protest". I went to talk to people really and to network but I ended up just having a party! lol I did speak to some good heads, though was too out of it to collect numbers! lol
Anyway I was shocked at the stench present in london, it was raw sewage smell mate! Made me feel sick! I only stayed the weekend as my partner was pregnant at the time.
I don't know what I'll do just yet, I have plenty of figuring out to do.
reply to post by drmeola
Well my point had nothing to do with the military police power firing on citizens but you knew that, What a pathetic attempt at a strawman right out of the gate... Sigh!
LOL wow your batting a thousand so far. Can't deal with my points so raise a straw man and then attack the messenger and try to call him a big bad agent provocateur.
Really now? So is that why you started this post with a straw man and a personal attack instead of just offering the proof I asked for? Your documentation doesn't mean jack, prove it does what you claim it does! Oh by the way what is your claim that this so called status change can do for you? From what I can tell all you claim is that you won't be arrested for doing it while insinuating it will somehow free you from the corporate mafioso. What supposed benefits does it offer anyone?
Wow what a complete load of crap that is. Remember folks I said to be prepared for lots of excuses here you are in spades... Sigh! Yeah we can do what we want but we don't want to upset the corporate de facto government by actually living free so we obey their oppressive laws even though they grant us permission to be free because we do it right ROTFLMAO!
LOL! Yeah folks and I am sure they will help you fill out and file your paper work too for an "extra donation" just to cover costs you see or maybe a seminar to really learn this stuff inside out so you can really understand how to defend your supposed new status... Yep heard it all before many times by many a charlatan.
Continued in the next post....
However you are correct in the fact that if the military police power come rolling down your road they will not be checking paperwork before opening fire upon citizens, so what's your point.
Well my point had nothing to do with the military police power firing on citizens but you knew that, What a pathetic attempt at a strawman right out of the gate... Sigh!
Second though not sure you just might be an agent provocateur if not sure what that is look it up.
LOL wow your batting a thousand so far. Can't deal with my points so raise a straw man and then attack the messenger and try to call him a big bad agent provocateur.
I hide nothing and answer all questions to the very best of my ability does this mean I am right all the time, no way, however all documents are there for you to study and research for yourself FREE of charge.
Really now? So is that why you started this post with a straw man and a personal attack instead of just offering the proof I asked for? Your documentation doesn't mean jack, prove it does what you claim it does! Oh by the way what is your claim that this so called status change can do for you? From what I can tell all you claim is that you won't be arrested for doing it while insinuating it will somehow free you from the corporate mafioso. What supposed benefits does it offer anyone?
I would not open carry since the citizens are not use to seeing this sight in some time since Florida changed its open carry laws, again that is under revue it has nothing to do with being afraid of the officers or the need to push my right to do so. We do NOT obey any corporate statue private laws except those we choose, and that is why we will NOT help correct just anyone how asks for it. Because we surely do not need people whom want to go use their full power of status running around trying to take over the government trying to become the next elitist and causing/forcing their hand in total take over locking everyone up in FEMA camps.
Wow what a complete load of crap that is. Remember folks I said to be prepared for lots of excuses here you are in spades... Sigh! Yeah we can do what we want but we don't want to upset the corporate de facto government by actually living free so we obey their oppressive laws even though they grant us permission to be free because we do it right ROTFLMAO!
PAC does have a textbook NOT required but recommended and can be purchased on line for a donation of 35 dollars or from another whom is selling the book often for 25 dollars again this is NOT required and most of the books are all printed in house the cost is to cover the paper and ink to print it with only pennies of profit per book. The bulk sales, block of 10 books sell for 22.50 per book and that is why we sell them at events for 25.00, yep sounds like we are getting rich doesn't it. However this will be the best investment in ones education they could ever make.
LOL! Yeah folks and I am sure they will help you fill out and file your paper work too for an "extra donation" just to cover costs you see or maybe a seminar to really learn this stuff inside out so you can really understand how to defend your supposed new status... Yep heard it all before many times by many a charlatan.
Continued in the next post....
reply to post by drmeola
Oh oh here we go folks he really stepped in it now. OP must be new at this... Please provide us with any verifiable court case of proof. I am all ears. Again folks be prepared for more excuses, obfuscation, strawman and attacking the messenger type responses...
So let me get this straight you ask the de facto courts for permission to be free of their false authority and they grant you said permission because you do it right? LOL! Wish I had a buck for every time I heard that. Why would one need to ask a false authority for permission for anything except in fear of their reprisal? And why would such a false authority relinquish control over any slave just because he asked? So many like you act like filing paper work brings some magical transition LOL! I wait for your proof with baited breath however I know I wait in vain.
Oh and by the way you completely avoided every point I made so far so please spare us the self accolades and show us the so called beef... And please do not waste our time with unverifiable documentation on how to do the so called process. Verifiable court cases period where the de facto acknowledged your status and refused to violate your rights due to said status thank you.
So as you can see no excuses only truth and facts as it applies in law. Oh and the PROOF is in every pdf with footnotes law book definitions and court cases if they apply for anyone to look up and verify as I recommend everyone to do. If something is an opinion it is clearly stated as such.
Oh oh here we go folks he really stepped in it now. OP must be new at this... Please provide us with any verifiable court case of proof. I am all ears. Again folks be prepared for more excuses, obfuscation, strawman and attacking the messenger type responses...
So nice try playing at a distracter but you will quickly learn no PAC member will ever avoid any request for information or hid anything, (except our process) for the reasons mentioned earlier. We have been around close to 15 years with zero complaints or issues and no one else in the freedom movement can claim the same. The reason simply is because we do it the only lawful way passed by congress prior the 14th all others are workarounds none of which has any standing in today's courtrooms.
So let me get this straight you ask the de facto courts for permission to be free of their false authority and they grant you said permission because you do it right? LOL! Wish I had a buck for every time I heard that. Why would one need to ask a false authority for permission for anything except in fear of their reprisal? And why would such a false authority relinquish control over any slave just because he asked? So many like you act like filing paper work brings some magical transition LOL! I wait for your proof with baited breath however I know I wait in vain.
Oh and by the way you completely avoided every point I made so far so please spare us the self accolades and show us the so called beef... And please do not waste our time with unverifiable documentation on how to do the so called process. Verifiable court cases period where the de facto acknowledged your status and refused to violate your rights due to said status thank you.
edit on 19-4-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
reply to post by mee30
hi mee30
i didn't quote any of your replies due to space. you brought up some good points yourself. lazy sod? ha i giggled at that one but i understand the reason behind it.
the circumstances behind the three individuals and their stance which was 'in yer face' so to speak. prior to this i'd read many papers/webpages and the like in an attempt to find a grounding to start from. upon listening to them it was like they had raided the local sweet shop without being caught. my questions to them were very simple as they were the ones initiating the conversation and throwing all sorts of statements around without any tangible framework. links and pointers were requested but all that was furnished was the liverpool court fiasco and to be honest i wasn't impressed at all whilst these guys acted like their football team had won the fa cup.
a simple path of imformation was all that was requested from them whilst they gave off the air of superiority. as i said earlier, these guys are financially comfortable and have no money worries whatsoever, new cars and multiple holidays annually. there is no animosity towards them due to their financial status it is just that i am in the opposite camp of financial status and where they could afford to persue their interests without a downside, i myself would be destitute in a matter of weeks.
these guys knowing my status and commitments gave me no tangible path to follow and so i hit a cul-de-sac and put it down to waffle.
it wasn't a case of having anyone supply all of the information, it was a request for an initial starting point and i could follow it in my own time. this thing is really fragmented and when put to them that this was the case, silence was the answer.
i agree that land ownership is the answer where a number of individuals pool their resources and purchase not only land but the equipment to become self-sufficiency. i guess the tricky aspect to this would be 'does one buy the land before or after disowning the state?' then planning law comes into effect which carries it's own hazards if standards aren't adhered to. it is the uk and if planners and local authorities get wind unauthorised structures have been erected, notices will be handed out and if ignored, bailiffs and demolition crews will attend. again tricky aspects the would need addressing prior to any financial agreements.
take a look at the dale farm issue. the uk's biggest gypsy site where the state came down on them like a ton of bricks. it was messy on both sides imo. i suppose a better course of action would be to purchase land, apply for all planning permissions, build the thing, get the peeps moved in and then divorce the state. obviously taxes would still be a future obligation so as long as these were satisfied, i really don't see any future issues other than don't all run through the nearby village naked on the solstice!
i think we both agree that government are too intrusive towards the individual and for me a reset between the individual and the state would at the very least be a move towards a more positive outcome.
freedom i am all for but at what future cost to those i have responsibility over?
i would have no issue off-gridding if i was looking after number one only, however difficulties are ahead when the welfare of kids and wives and pets etc are the main consideration.
best wishes mee, fakedirt.
hi mee30
i didn't quote any of your replies due to space. you brought up some good points yourself. lazy sod? ha i giggled at that one but i understand the reason behind it.
the circumstances behind the three individuals and their stance which was 'in yer face' so to speak. prior to this i'd read many papers/webpages and the like in an attempt to find a grounding to start from. upon listening to them it was like they had raided the local sweet shop without being caught. my questions to them were very simple as they were the ones initiating the conversation and throwing all sorts of statements around without any tangible framework. links and pointers were requested but all that was furnished was the liverpool court fiasco and to be honest i wasn't impressed at all whilst these guys acted like their football team had won the fa cup.
a simple path of imformation was all that was requested from them whilst they gave off the air of superiority. as i said earlier, these guys are financially comfortable and have no money worries whatsoever, new cars and multiple holidays annually. there is no animosity towards them due to their financial status it is just that i am in the opposite camp of financial status and where they could afford to persue their interests without a downside, i myself would be destitute in a matter of weeks.
these guys knowing my status and commitments gave me no tangible path to follow and so i hit a cul-de-sac and put it down to waffle.
it wasn't a case of having anyone supply all of the information, it was a request for an initial starting point and i could follow it in my own time. this thing is really fragmented and when put to them that this was the case, silence was the answer.
i agree that land ownership is the answer where a number of individuals pool their resources and purchase not only land but the equipment to become self-sufficiency. i guess the tricky aspect to this would be 'does one buy the land before or after disowning the state?' then planning law comes into effect which carries it's own hazards if standards aren't adhered to. it is the uk and if planners and local authorities get wind unauthorised structures have been erected, notices will be handed out and if ignored, bailiffs and demolition crews will attend. again tricky aspects the would need addressing prior to any financial agreements.
take a look at the dale farm issue. the uk's biggest gypsy site where the state came down on them like a ton of bricks. it was messy on both sides imo. i suppose a better course of action would be to purchase land, apply for all planning permissions, build the thing, get the peeps moved in and then divorce the state. obviously taxes would still be a future obligation so as long as these were satisfied, i really don't see any future issues other than don't all run through the nearby village naked on the solstice!
i think we both agree that government are too intrusive towards the individual and for me a reset between the individual and the state would at the very least be a move towards a more positive outcome.
freedom i am all for but at what future cost to those i have responsibility over?
i would have no issue off-gridding if i was looking after number one only, however difficulties are ahead when the welfare of kids and wives and pets etc are the main consideration.
best wishes mee, fakedirt.
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