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What If We Built An Electro-Magnetic Motor?

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posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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I'm no mechanic, but I can do most simple things should the vehicle in which I am driving break down. I'm a redneck, afterall. But for someone here who is a serious mechanic or engineer, I have a question.
Instead of the pistons using gas igniting to move them, what if, on each end of the pistons there is an electro magnet that fires in order like a distributer cap does to the spark plugs. Like one end turns on the electro magnet, pulling the piston up, then the other one turns on bringing it down. It would take a battery to get it started but once it did, wouldn't that be free energy?

The pistons and crank could be modified or specially designed to perform with electro magnets. I've always known since I was little that there is something very special about magnets and how they are so overlooked and taken advantage of. There has to be a way to make things work off of magnets--free energy. If one magnet can pull something it's way then why can't another one pull it back? Just amplify the damn thing. I'd like to hear what you think about this.




posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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I sort of understand your concept but based on this understanding there is a slight flaw. A permanent magnet could not be used because it cannot be turned off. You can use an electromagnet but that would require electricity therefore no 'free energy'. Although in theory it may work but a straight electric motor would likely be more efficient.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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I have loved the idea of an electro-magnetic engine. I thought of the concept of what an alternator does. I think it could work but I too am somewhat of a redneck and not an engineer. I've seen plans of motors, and have thought something like a cross between a Wankel rotor and a ceramic block would be something to drive a transmission then out through a driveshaft. It sounds somewhat steampunk, but I love the idea...



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Just be sure to keep it to yourself, if you design and build a machine like this. If successful, you may find yourself possessed of an overwhelming desire to commit suicide.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by fenceSitter
 

What if the permanent magnet was pushed away mechanically to reduce the magnetism?
Just thinking outloud...



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by gardCanada
 


Exactly what I'm thinking. It may take a couple of ol' rednecks to figure this thing out.


And yes, suicide seems to be trendy for people who figure out ways to stick it to the man.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by fenceSitter
 


But what I'm saying is there has to be a way to charge the magnet and uncharge it or simply move it. Kinda how those junkyard magnets pick up cars or even an MRI machine.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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This may be of some interest as well.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Could possibly work.
When a piston moves up in a cylinder it makes compression. You would have to have a no-compression piston/cylinder set up.

You would have to have a start battery to get the electromagnets "Firing" and once the engine is turning it could turn an alternator to generate power for the the electromagnets, run lights, charge battery, etc.

The Hertz and strength of the electromagnetic pulses would have to be variable, increased or decreased on the drivers command simulating "Throttle". Increasing or decreasing the RPM's/Power/torque for driving situations such as acceleration. A battery Or a capacitor would have to be in place to aid in increasing the strength of a pulse upon demand.

The way I could see a concept like this working would be Magnetic Repulsion.
The electromagnet where the cylinder head would usually be would have to be timed electronically, or mechanically to turn on when the Piston also containing a magnet is in it's Top dead center (TDC) position. Creating repulsion pushing the piston down (Simulating fuel combustion on power stroke in an OHV engine) turning the crank = trans = wheels.



Theoretically it could work!
edit on 30-6-2012 by llmacgregor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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things to think about...
#1 ... repelling force is stronger than attracting force
#2 ... heat demagnetizes magnets, don't combine it with combustion.
#3 ... if it works, it may be illegal to patent it.



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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one problem that you overlooked,FRICTION! The energy used to make the piston overcome the compression would be huge,and would need to cycle a thousand times a second.Once the mass of the piston overcomes the magnet,they'd try to swap cylinders.You still have valves and such moving around,the timing it all together...and once you overcome those issues,how do you transmit it thru the transmission?If the piston isn't connected to the crank,are you using the magnet to rotate the crank?Too much loss of energy to me



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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I don;t think compression would be a problem.
The air being compressed by the piston could be harvested through a valve at the top of the piston stroke.
The harvested air could be used like they do in "Air Hog" toys to run a generator for lights, wipers etc. It could also aid in providing electrical energy to the magnets.



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 05:11 AM
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My mechanical/electrical skills are practically nonexistent but I have always wondered why the rear wheels (whichever ones are not being powered by the engine) cannot be used to generate electricity as long as they're turning anyway?

I'm sure some engineer must have thought of this so why aren't they doing it? Or are they already?



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders
My mechanical/electrical skills are practically nonexistent but I have always wondered why the rear wheels (whichever ones are not being powered by the engine) cannot be used to generate electricity as long as they're turning anyway?

I'm sure some engineer must have thought of this so why aren't they doing it? Or are they already?


You could use the momentum of the car to generate electricity, but only while you a breaking. That's already used on many hybrids and electric cars, and takes the energy usually wasted in stopping, and turns it into power.

But this cannot work while normally running the car. The car moves because there is an engine or motor propelling it. If you start harvesting power from the wheels why the car is running, you aren't getting any free energy. You are simply increasing the load onthe car's motor or engine, and then inefficiently transferring that power through the car's drive train, and then into electrical energy.

Harvesting electricity off the wheels is no different than simply hooking up a gas motor to a generator and generating electricity that way. Except you waste far more energy, as the motor isn't directly connected to the generator, it first has to loose energy as it makes its way through the car's drive train. This idea simply cannot work, period.

The OP's idea could work, as in you could potentially take an internal combustion engine and convert it to electrical power by use of electromagnets to push the cylinders instead of using expanding gasses like normal. Although it will accomplish nothing that a normal electric motor can't accomplish, and again it would be much less efficient, meaning you turn your engine into an electric motor, you loose tons and tons of energy as waste, instead of taking electrical energy and directly translating it into rotation like you do with an electric motor, you are wasting energy moving all these other non important parts of the engine. An engine is built to withstand great pressures and heat, it's a horrible base for an electric motor.

So you get your electric engine running,what's the point? What have you accomplished? You could have gone and bought a 50hp electric motor far cheaper and it would work far better. The idea that you can get free energy from putting magnets on an engine just cannot work.

You aren't getting free energy because you are still consuming a lot of energy. The cylinders in a motor move because of extreme pressure from the combusting fuel/air mixture. There are huge amounts of energy being fed into this system via the gasoline. The energy of the gasoline is converted, via the pistons. to rotational force to move the car.

With the OP's idea, you are going to have to have a massive bank of batteries in your trunk, that run to extremely powerful electromagnets in the cylinders. These magnets USE energy, they do NOT produce energy. You pump energy in, and you get magnetic fields as the result. If you use these fields to move the pistons, you are just replacing the energy input of gasoline, to the energy input of stored electrical energy, from your batteries.

Those batteries need to be charged somewhere, meaning you are still USING energy, not producing it, not saving it, nothing, you are using energy, and using it far less efficiently than other methods we currently have.

Those batteries will not self charge. You could have a solar pannel, but then again why not just get a regular electric motor? It would offer better performance and be more efficient.

It seems many of the proponents of free energy devices quite simply don't have the first clue how any of this stuff actually works. Magnetism isn't a power source. Just like gravity isn't a power source. Hydroelectric power plants do not get their energy from gravity, they get their energy from the sun. The sun used energy to evaporate water, carrying it high up, as it falls you can extract energy from it, but you aren't extracting energy from the gravity pulling it down, as you are only extracting energy that was ALREADY put into it by the sun.

Magnets cannot produce energy, They can take one form of energy (mechanical) and translate it into another form (electrical) but they create zero energy, they actually consume energy in the process. An electrical generator doesn't use magnets to produce electricity, it actually doesn't produce energy at all. It simply transforms one, already existing source of energy, into a different form. Such processes ALWAYS have a measure of loss, meaning anytime you transfer energy into a different form, that process itself costs energy.

People think money isn't real, and that it's a fabricated concept. It's not. Nature has been using money in the form of energy since it's beginning. Certain actions require energy to be paid, others can release energy, but that energy didn't get made right there, it simply got released. We have never created energy in our lives, we only release it, or transfer it from one medium to another.
edit on 3-9-2013 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by James1982

You could use the momentum of the car to generate electricity, but only while you a breaking. That's already used on many hybrids and electric cars, and takes the energy usually wasted in stopping, and turns it into power.

But this cannot work while normally running the car. The car moves because there is an engine or motor propelling it. If you start harvesting power from the wheels why the car is running, you aren't getting any free energy. You are simply increasing the load onthe car's motor or engine, and then inefficiently transferring that power through the car's drive train, and then into electrical energy.

Harvesting electricity off the wheels is no different than simply hooking up a gas motor to a generator and generating electricity that way. Except you waste far more energy, as the motor isn't directly connected to the generator, it first has to loose energy as it makes its way through the car's drive train. This idea simply cannot work, period.
.


The idea is not to get "free energy". The idea was to use the power generated to recharge the batteries while it's moving so you won't have to stop and park it for hours waiting for a recharge.

Of course connecting generators to the tires is going to make the motor work somewhat harder but I figure it couldn't be worse than adding 300 pounds of groceries in your trunk (which people routinely do anyway).

Anyhow, inefficiency is not necessarily a bad thing if your goal is to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. and extend the driving time before you have to recharge.

Like I said, I'm a dummy so I don't know if any of this is feasible. But my gut feeling is they're dragging their feet because they don't want to stop selling people gasoline. Which I'm not entirely opposed to. I'm not one of those people who is determined to "go green" at all costs. I just think it's stupid to keep polluting more than you have to. If we have the brainpower and the technology to build and sell cars that reduce pollution, we probably should. I kind of doubt just using the brakes to generate electricity is the only way to do it.



posted on Sep, 3 2013 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by James1982

You could use the momentum of the car to generate electricity, but only while you a breaking. That's already used on many hybrids and electric cars, and takes the energy usually wasted in stopping, and turns it into power.

But this cannot work while normally running the car. The car moves because there is an engine or motor propelling it. If you start harvesting power from the wheels why the car is running, you aren't getting any free energy. You are simply increasing the load onthe car's motor or engine, and then inefficiently transferring that power through the car's drive train, and then into electrical energy.

Harvesting electricity off the wheels is no different than simply hooking up a gas motor to a generator and generating electricity that way. Except you waste far more energy, as the motor isn't directly connected to the generator, it first has to loose energy as it makes its way through the car's drive train. This idea simply cannot work, period.
.


The idea is not to get "free energy". The idea was to use the power generated to recharge the batteries while it's moving so you won't have to stop and park it for hours waiting for a recharge.

Of course connecting generators to the tires is going to make the motor work somewhat harder but I figure it couldn't be worse than adding 300 pounds of groceries in your trunk (which people routinely do anyway).

Anyhow, inefficiency is not necessarily a bad thing if your goal is to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. and extend the driving time before you have to recharge.

Like I said, I'm a dummy so I don't know if any of this is feasible. But my gut feeling is they're dragging their feet because they don't want to stop selling people gasoline. Which I'm not entirely opposed to. I'm not one of those people who is determined to "go green" at all costs. I just think it's stupid to keep polluting more than you have to. If we have the brainpower and the technology to build and sell cars that reduce pollution, we probably should. I kind of doubt just using the brakes to generate electricity is the only way to do it.


I was replying to both the regenerative breaking idea as well as the OP's so things might have been a little crossed, I didn't mean to imply that you're suggesting free energy.

Using breaking power to generate power is a good idea, so good it's already being used. The issue is that this only works while you are breaking. Long freeway journeys or any other time when you aren't constantly on the breaks, you really don't gain much from it.

In stop and go traffic, you can reclaim a decent amount of energy from breaking, but you aren't actually gaining anymore energy, you are just using the energy you already have more efficiently. This also only works on electric of hybrid cars, a gasoline motor isn't going to be able to do anything with a little bit of electrical power.

Your not a dummy, your general idea is a good one, but like I said it's already being used on hybrids and electric cars. But the idea to constantly generate power from the wheels, isn't going to work, you are spending energy to propel the car, any generator attached to wheels is going to increase the load on the car's motor. Which means you would get some energy from a generator attached to the wheels, but you'd spend even more energy at the motor to propel the car, as any generator attached to the wheels is simply getting power from your engine, as the engine is what's moving the car forward.



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Fylgje
Instead of the pistons using gas igniting to move them, what if, on each end of the pistons there is an electro magnet that fires in order like a distributer cap does to the spark plugs. Like one end turns on the electro magnet, pulling the piston up, then the other one turns on bringing it down. It would take a battery to get it started but once it did, wouldn't that be free energy?


There is NO FREE ENERGY period !

Your kinda on the right track though. Dont think of energy being Free .. just think of it being all around us and utilize that energy with minimal Friction (heat).

You see .. we as Earthlings have a problem with our gravity. We have to live within the confines of Gravity. Gravity produces so much heat ( energy going from your car to the road ) that its hard for us to really get a grip on the Capture of Energy.

Dont think about how to get Free Energy .. think about how you can Capture every last drop of Energy you expend.

There is a way.

You just have to capture and recycle the energy you expend. Heat will always go to the energy expended.

Smart batteries would really make a dent in this world though. You could put a charger in line with your motor and capture energy that would normally be lost due to idle or when the alternator shuts off.

Basically a battery pack that you could use for your phones or pads or something.

Less friction .. the better you can utilize the expended energy.

Keep going at it OP ..

JG



posted on Sep, 4 2013 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by jaduguru

Originally posted by Fylgje
Instead of the pistons using gas igniting to move them, what if, on each end of the pistons there is an electro magnet that fires in order like a distributer cap does to the spark plugs. Like one end turns on the electro magnet, pulling the piston up, then the other one turns on bringing it down. It would take a battery to get it started but once it did, wouldn't that be free energy?


There is NO FREE ENERGY period !

Your kinda on the right track though. Dont think of energy being Free .. just think of it being all around us and utilize that energy with minimal Friction (heat).

You see .. we as Earthlings have a problem with our gravity. We have to live within the confines of Gravity. Gravity produces so much heat ( energy going from your car to the road ) that its hard for us to really get a grip on the Capture of Energy.

Dont think about how to get Free Energy .. think about how you can Capture every last drop of Energy you expend.

There is a way.

You just have to capture and recycle the energy you expend. Heat will always go to the energy expended.

Smart batteries would really make a dent in this world though. You could put a charger in line with your motor and capture energy that would normally be lost due to idle or when the alternator shuts off.

Basically a battery pack that you could use for your phones or pads or something.

Less friction .. the better you can utilize the expended energy.

Keep going at it OP ..

JG



That's really the best way to think of it, is to use the energy available in the most efficient manner. You can't create energy, but you can get the most from what you have.

Although something like putting a generator inline with the cars electrical system isn't going to increase efficiency. Any generator will put additional drag on the engine, and the increased energy required from the engine will be greater than the energy you get from the generator. Cars already have an electrical system, if you need to charger you ipad use the cigarette lighter. You are using an already in place generator (the alternator) to charge you ipad, which is more efficient compared to introducing additional load on the motor through additional generators.

The only energy being put into a car is the gasoline. That energy is wasted by overcoming wind resistance, the drag in the drivetrain, the friction between the tires and the road, the cars electrical system, etc. None of this is a good expenditure of energy. Ideally 100% of the energy stored in gasoline will go to moving the car forward. In the real world this is impossible. But reducing additional load on the motor is how you increase efficiency, not be adding more load in the form of generators.

When a car is rolling it has momentum, and you can extract energy from that. But it will slow the car down. That's not a problem when the goal is already to stop the car (by breaking) where you otherwise would simply be throwing away that energy. But by generating power while you are trying to accelerate or maintain a speed in a car, you are actually wasting power and increasing the energy input of the whole system, since you are sucking energy from the gas motor by generating power from the movement of the car. And because of inefficiency those generators will waste power, meaning you are using more energy overall than you would be without the generators.



posted on Nov, 6 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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I appreciate the information and ideas posted here. I still believe it can be accomplished. I believe there are things about magnets that we don't know yet--we're missing something. If nothing else, we should make a better steam engine for vehicles. No more oil dependency. Steam works really good and could be modified to be efficient for an automobile. You can get massive amounts of power from water/steam, I mean, after all, locomotives used it, or some may still use it. It wouldn't be hard to make a steam motor that is safe and efficient. I bet it's so patented and illegal that whoever tries to achieve it would vanish from the face of the earth relatively quickly. I think if it benefits humanity and ends dependency on oil, then the patent should be null and void. It isn't right to sit on patents that would better human life. In fact, I would call it a crime against humanity. There has to be some sort of change and engineers willing to experiment publicly. That way, "they" wouldn't be able to do anything about it.



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 06:50 AM
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what if you replaced the spark plugs with electromagnets and shaved off part of the pistons and glued neodyme magnets on top of the pistons ,then used non conducting rings and a volume regulator in place of your gas peddle to regulate the flow of current comming from your coil,then you can still use your existing hardware,altenator,air conditioner ect.

ride free my freinds





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