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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by sageofmonticello
Considering that, who needs reform in the first place. i mean we spend the same amount on health care service, on average, that we spend on eating out yearly. It just makes no sense. Anybody who is intellectually honest and looks into the facts, can't support Obamacare.
You have shown your complete ignorance on the issue with the above statement...maybe you should stop talking about it.
Most of those that are against "Obamacare" at least have enough intelligence to know that "something" has to be down.
But you think everything is just fine, because you ONLY had to pay 3k for a kidney stone problem. You having kidney stones at such a young age does not bode well for your medical costs in the future...but I'm thinking you are going to find that out the hard way. Then you will come make a thread crying about how high medical costs are.
All the needed to do in the first place WAS figure out how to reduce the costs of all these procedures and then get people back to work so they had healthcare. And make no mistake, this is a capitalist society. If you want a job and want healthcare it is out there but you have to work for it. Nothing is free in this world and believe me. Obamacare is not free.. Its coming out of my paychecks.
I'm not sure what your statements about 28 million people with no insurance make over $75k and $50k?
My point is that they can afford health insurance, obviously, yet choose not to buy it.
Government forcing you to go a certain speed is one thing, government forcing you to buy a product you don't want is another.
Morality is independent from an economic model and economic models are independent from morality.
Well, that's very big of you.
That isn't necessary.
And there are plenty of people who visit the emergency room for medical care who are not illegals aliens.
Please quantify "plenty of people".
Yes, it does inflate costs, but as i already showed you, the cost of health care currently is about the same amount people spend eating out on average per year.
If those people were able to visit a doctor for preventive care, many wouldn't end up there in need of very expensive treatments. So yes, if everyone buys into the insurance pool, then neither you nor I would have to pay for their healthcare.
Possibly, but just as likely it could cost more because of all of the preventative care for aliments that aren't necessarily worth seeing a doctor over. The only example we have to see who is right would be Massachusetts. Lets see if it cost any less... here is a headline and subhead from the August 22, 2009, Boston Globe: “Bay State Premiums Highest in Country: Rein in healthcare costs, Massachusetts urged.” so it looks like I am actually right and costs go up. Obama himself said that the health care act was modeled from the Massachusetts plan.
Originally posted by sageofmonticello
Obama has added $6 trillion to the national debt in his one term.
Originally posted by sageofmonticello
NDAA. Indefinite military detention, no attorney, no trial. Nothing else needs to be said. He could of easily vetoed the bill and had it go through congress again with this section removed.
Today I have signed into law H.R. 1540, the "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012." I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed. In hundreds of separate sections totaling over 500 pages, the Act also contains critical Administration initiatives to control the spiraling health care costs of the Department of Defense (DoD), to develop counterterrorism initiatives abroad, to build the security capacity of key partners, to modernize the force, and to boost the efficiency and effectiveness of military operations worldwide.
Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.
My Administration has worked tirelessly to reform or remove the provisions described above in order to facilitate the enactment of this vital legislation, but certain provisions remain concerning. My Administration will aggressively seek to mitigate those concerns through the design of implementation procedures and other authorities available to me as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief, will oppose any attempt to extend or expand them in the future, and will seek the repeal of any provisions that undermine the policies and values that have guided my Administration throughout my time in office.
That's a reach. Private insurance is extremely expensive and that's IF you can get it. I know COBRA through my company is $1500-$1900 per month for a family of 4. So if someone making $50k a year with a spouse and 2 kids has to pay about $20k a year for insurance, that's not exactly affordable.
My biggest issue with this part of the plan is that it's a give away to the insurance companies. That and Obama didn't put any protections in place in the 2 years between the mandate and when it actually goes into effect giving the insurance companies plenty of time to hike their rates. But that's why I would prefer a Medicare system for everyone
Is it? I would argue that if our politicians weren't so corrupt, we wouldn't be in the economic mess that we're in now.
You're the one that set the tone here, Dude.
"New Data Say Uninsured Account for Nearly One-fifth of Emergency Room Visits" - from the US Dept of Health and Human Services Source
Assuming, as we discussed, that these people do have insurance. What I don't appreciate is that ALL OF US pay an inflated cost to cover those that do not have any insurance.
I did a bit of research on this and it is possible that preventive care would be more costly . That said, using 1 example of a newspaper headline does not win an argument.
I look at it this way: I don't have kids but my taxes go to pay for public schools so other people's kids can (hopefully) get a modicum of education. I could argue that I chose not to have kids and therefore the government has no right to my money for that. But the truth of it is, I want my neighbor's children to be educated. Having an educated community leads to a better quality of life for all of us. And if they're in school, they're not hanging around the neighborhood waiting for me to leave for work so they can steal my stuff. I feel the same way about wanting to live in a healthy community. It's called living in a society. What you do does affect me and vice versa and trying to act like it doesn't is just living in denial.
Originally posted by sealing
I can answer all your reasons for not voting for Obama with 3 things.
1. He had to because Bush broke the world.
2. The pentagon is the real power.
3. You have to purchase auto insurance .
I'm not trying to discredit your work by any means,
but if you are going to vote, it's no contest.
Romney is terrible. He doesn't stand a chance.
I'm really worried about what ALEC and the Oil comp
are going to do to ruin the US between now and Nov.
I think they can do some real damage with unlimited
cash and Black Water on speed dial.
Energy Comps know if Obama wins they are gonna pay
taxes for the first time ever. That makes them angry.
We wouldn't like them when they're angry.
Originally posted by DrNotforhire
I wont be voting for Obama this year
I will be voting for Romney, since the third party will not win...
Originally posted by SaturnFX
Most everyone will use the health services eventually...one of the flaws in life is that we eventually start breaking down...and when that happens, someone calls an ambulance.
Auto Insurance is required only if you plan on using the road...however, if you 'accidently" had to drive, your not exempt from requiring insurance...
People don't plan on getting sick...but people do, everyone does..not a single person has ever not gotten sick and ultimately died from it..batting 100% here. So, until such a time as disease, sickness, accidents, and death is overcome, then its fair to say there is a very high percent chance (like 99.99) that you, me, and everyone else will be using the hospitals, emergency rooms, etc.
So...insurance mandates seems to be very comparable to auto insurance mandates
Originally posted by Darkrunner
What worries me most about Obama and his ilk being re-elected? The possibility of him being able to stack the Supreme Court with another 1-2 judges. You will not even recognize the country you were born in.
Negative. I will not be patronizing hospitals, nor will I be purchasing "health care insurance", mandate or no. Not gonna happen. I can die in bed at home just as comfortably as I can die in bed in a hospital, and quite a bit less expensively.
Nope, I'm not participating in your "health care" lotto in any form.
Originally posted by SaturnFX
... created a improvement of healthcare (still incredibly and woefully short of anything sensible or effective mind you..damn republican plan of nothingness), ...
I agree there is no liberals up there to choose...but there is a difference...choose a centerist, or a fringe right puppet corporatist. But make no mistake, there is absolutely a difference in rule.