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HELP! Any Proof that God Does NOT Know Everything in Advance? (Total Omniscience)

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posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


And what's so wrong about viewing our creator in our image if (IF) we were indeed created in HIS image? Would any of us as parents create children (if we had the power) whom we know will die at the age of 6 from starvation, or kill in masse our sisters/brothers, or condemn them to everlasting torture because they didn't acknowlege us as their parent? (An ego thing.)

No.. I refuse to believe that our morals are 180 degrees opposite of God's..that we are more loving of our offspring than HE is of HIS offspring!

To say that "His ways are not our ways" is the cop-out. That saying can be invoked every time something does not go as we hope and expect. God endowed us with common-sense for a reason and you don't need to read the Bible (which I have done) in order to use it.
-cwm




posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Yes JHill76, I agree that many are given the option to acknowlege God just before death. But what about the millions who die every year who were not presented with this option? We'll probably never know how many offers are made, but it still boils down to a Father turning his back on a great many of his Children, and knowing before they were born that he would do this, assuming of course that God has total omniscience. That's why I'm hoping that God does NOT know all future events.
-cwm



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by carewemust
 




But what about the millions who die every year who were not presented with this option? We'll probably never know how many offers are made


Everyone is given a choice. It is the period between death and being sent. No human gives the offer. It is done by above.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
When asked his name he said he was "I Am". What if we call him Jaime? Sounds more like "I am". Sounds like "I am me" and has the same meaning.
I'm pretty sure he didn't speak english, since that language wasn't invented yet.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
Everyone is given a choice. It is the period between death and being sent. No human gives the offer. It is done by above.
Where do you get this information?



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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HOW "GOD" KNOWS EVERYTHING

Well i think your problem lyes in giving "God" human qualities. here is a easy answer to your question Think of time, we have a past present and future, this is what is call a linear existance. Now imagine a area out side of our linear existance where there is no past, no prestent, and no future. No imagine "God" live is this area. ""HENCE"" unlimited Knoledge of the future.
I hope this helps you out. If you need a more detailed explination feel free to let me know. Cheers
edit on 18-4-2012 by surewhynot because: Forgot the ad the title to my master piece



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by AQuestion
When asked his name he said he was "I Am". What if we call him Jaime? Sounds more like "I am". Sounds like "I am me" and has the same meaning.
I'm pretty sure he didn't speak english, since that language wasn't invented yet.


When he comes, he speaks in the language that you speak. Or anyone else from above. It is acquired at final reach. Language may be different, but meaning is still one.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
When he comes, he speaks in the language that you speak. Or anyone else from above. It is acquired at final reach. Language may be different, but meaning is still one.
Sure, but he didn't speak english to whoever it was who asked his name in the bible, which is what AQuestion was referring to.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


AQuestion, the more I research tonight, the more I believe that you are exactly right! The Bible has passages where God says that he knew us before we were born, but it does NOT explicity say that he knows everything about how we will live our lives, or when/how we will die in this realm.

This gives me hope that God is not a callous sadistic Father who condems millions of his children, but more like an inventor who does his best, and hopes for the best. If that is the case, it would be great news to this ATS member!
Thank-you for bringing this to my attention AQuestion!
-cwm



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Dear Hydroman,



I'm pretty sure he didn't speak english, since that language wasn't invented yet.


And I am pretty sure that you can figure out how to use Wikipedia and look up the translation. If not there are many fine bible websites that will give you the history of the word that was used.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by carewemust
 


Dear carewemust,



The Bible has passages where God says that he knew us before we were born, but it does NOT explicity say that he knows everything about how we will live our lives, or when/how we will die in this realm.


Thank you for your kind words and be hopeful in life. The world attempts to give us two choices, we are imperfect and have no hope or we are meaningless and have no hope. Neither is accurate, we are meaningful and matter and there is always hope. When people complain about God, they are complaining that we do not live in a world where no effort or growth is expected from us. They ask, how can a good God allow pain to exist. They do not ask how do I become a unique person who takes his free will and takes responsibility for his actions so that he can have a real relationship with others. They want a God that is basically a big valium who soothes them at no cost and regardless of how we act. Peace.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by carewemust
 


Okay, think of the story of Joseph in the OT and ask:

"Why did God allow little Joseph to be cast into the pit and be sold into slavery by his brothers???!!!"


He turns every evil the enemy brings to us around for His glory.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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Don't have much time here. I'm just doing a quick paste job because I believe this answers your question.
Around 3000 years ago in the reign of Solomon he did a very stupid thing. At the urging of pagan wives he worshiped an idol. And the Ancient of Days went bats* when he did that. See 1st Kings 11. Slapped him with a curse. Stripped ten of the tribes of Israel from his kingdom. And during the reign of his son Rehoboam the curse went into effect. Normally a curse like this has a set period of time per Leviticus 26 and then it's reversed. But then additional problems arose.

The Israelites and the Jews worshiped other gods. And after a couple of hundred years later in approximately 720 BC the Israelites were conquered by the Assyrians and turned into slaves. And in 604 BC the Babylonians did the same to the Jews. And the explanation is in Ezekiel 4.

A 390 year top level Leviticus 26 curse was applied to the Israelites. And a 40 year curse was applied to the Jews. After the curse was over the Jews went back and rebuilt Jerusalem and the Temple. And then you get to the first century AD.

In the first century AD what the Jews were expecting and were probably supposed to get was a Messiah that was supposed to recreate the kingdom of David. But a problem occurred. John the Baptist was killed by Herod. According to the book of Malachi that wasn't supposed to happen. What was supposed to happen was the Lord and his 2 messengers were to come to the temple and rule. So what happened was the "Curse of Malachi" was triggered.

Malachi 4
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So I went an figured out the details of the curse. And found them in the book of Hosea. Hosea it appears was told about the curse but not told why it was imposed. But with his "day of Jezreel prophecy" we are told of the curse. And that once over there was supposed to be a period of grace where all of Israel is to live in peace. But in verse 6-2 we're told of the timeframe of the curse.

Hosea 6
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

So what are these days he's talking about here? In the bible prophesies have a problem with time periods. In Ezekiel 4 we were told the days were to be interpreted as years. In Daniel 9 the years were described as 70 "weeks" of years. 490 years to be precise. The same thing is happening here. And the key to understanding the 3 days here is that they are in the presence of God. And per Psalms 90 and 2nd Peter 3-8 those days are thousand year periods of time.

Essentially Herod triggered a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse on all of Israel. That is the veil that EnochWasRight was talking about. This is how Jesus Christ describes the veil.

Matthew 13.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

The problem with a top level Leviticus 26 curse is that those who are subject to it are not supposed to understand. The mysteries of the Bible and Heaven are sealed from them. Then the question becomes who is subject to this curse. And the answer is everybody. Read the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49. And the olive tree parable of Romans 11.

According to Genesis 48 and 49 the descendants of Jacob/Israel were supposed to become nations of the Earth. and Ephraim was supposed to become a multitude of nations. And the individuals according to Genesis are to be as countless as the stars in the sky or the grains of sand on a seashore.

Continued.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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Per the olive tree parable of Romans 11 Christians are wild olive tree branches grafted into the tree of life. But what is that tree? The family tree of Israel/Jacob. Essentially Christians are adopted Israelites. But then that would mean they are subject to the Leviticus 26 agreement as well.

Essentially everybody's mind is affected one way or another. And my best guess is that the curse will be over in the mid 2020's. The 2000th anniversary of the death of John the Baptist. So I hope this clarifies the situation.


Also remember there is a adversary in the mix as well. And he really does not want God to succeed at this. All things considered Satan almost won in the first century AD. And while it didn't stop God it did put a 2000 year detour in his plans.

Things were not supposed to be this way. Christianity is a kludge. A patch. God trying to make Lemonade out of Lemons. And trying to keep the covenants he made with Moses and Abraham.
edit on 18-4-2012 by ntech because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Because Genesis is the first book of the Torah which was written by Moses as told him by pre-incarnate Yeshua. It was Yeshua's recount of the ordeal looking into the past which is why it looks to you like he didn't know it was going to happen. He knew all of this was going to happen and it's written in the geneaology of names, the entire story. www.bible-codes.org...


Genesis 6:5-8 "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. "

This is how it happened, right? First we see that god is angry with what he created and is going to wipe them all out. BUT, Noah found grace. If he knew the plan, then why doesn't it say what it is from the beginning instead of acting like you're going to wipe out everyone?

See, it WASN'T his plan to destroy man from the face of the earth, it was his plan to redeem them, wasn't it? So, why say you're going to wipe them all out?
edit on 17-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


The only way to multiply humanity's guilt for existing as such flawed animals, whose only purpose is worship of a higher power, would be by imbuing us with a sense of gratitude for being saved in order to fulfill our destiny of worship? Kind of like the beaten wife who profusely thanks her aggressor for a dinner out?

Just guessin'.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by satron
How do you know that God does know everything? The only reason why man says that is because their understanding of omniscience can't be touched because ultimately man has a limited understanding of things, so what might be "omniscient" might only seem so if it is just an inch beyond our understanding. In other words, God's knowledge could be limited, but we aren't smart enough to say whether it is or not if it goes beyond what we can comprehend.


Wrong on every level. If you ever read the entire Holy Bible OT and NT and had any understanding of what you read, there is no way you could come to this conclusion.


Give me one level.


Genesis 3:14-15

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”


The underlined portion is prophecy, probably the first prophecy given to Satan of his impending demise. Pre-incarnate Yeshua was telling the Angel of Death he was on borrowed time. When Yeshua breathed his last breath on the cross he yelled out "It is Finished" signifying that he broke the Angel of Death's power (crushed his head) over mankind. Where Satan "bruised" his heel was when the Romans nailed his feet to the cross, they didn't use 1 nail they used 2 nails, one for each foot and hammered perpendicular his achilles heels into the sides of the cross. Unlike what most people think, they didn't drive one nail into the top of both feet together, they drove the nails into his heels.'

This prophecy was given 2000 years before Yeshua was born, this is advanced foreknowledge. God sees all angles of time, which is why he is the One who was, who is and who is to come. From his vantage point time has already ended. When he gives prophecy, he pulls the future into the past and the prophets see it as he releases it like a rubberband and it goes slingshotting back to its original position in time.



These are the 2 nails archeaologist Simcha Jacobovici is displaying that were found within the tomb of the jewish High Priest named Caiaphas that turned Christ over to the Romans to be executed. These could be 2 of the nails that were used to crucify Yeshua. Why would Caiaphas have kept the nails Christ was cruicfied with? Well if you read the scriptures you get an idea why. Caiaphas knew who Yeshua was and he knew what had to be done.
edit on 18-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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God is all knowing period, and he is also a man of his word. It is clearly expressed in the following passages:

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is where free will and choice come in, the father has faith in us to make the right decision. So much faith in us that he allowed for these temptations. It is not the father who has lost faith in us, but it is we who lack the faith in him. The atrocity in this world is not to be blamed on the creator, but on our own lack of spiritual strength.

PLPL



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Wish i could help you OP but these are questions I struggle with myself. The more I learn about god the less i would want to spend eternity with someone like that.It seems to me he either has serious emotional problems, needs anger management, or has a personality disorder.

If there is a god he can give me his side of the story when I see him but having buried two of my children before their seventh Birthday he better have a real good explanation. I do NOT buy into the whole god works in mysterious ways clap trap. It's like your parent telling you "because I said so" didn't work then and it doesn't work now.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I'm not sure how this has to do with anything I said and my question to you.

So I'm going to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with it.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
And I am pretty sure that you can figure out how to use Wikipedia and look up the translation. If not there are many fine bible websites that will give you the history of the word that was used.


You said this, "When asked his name he said he was "I Am". What if we call him Jaime? Sounds more like "I am". Sounds like "I am me" and has the same meaning."

Then I said that the biblical god didn't speak english to Moses when he said, "I AM". Moses was raised Egyptian, and was of Hebrew blood, according to the bible. So, when the biblical god spoke to him, it was either in Egyptian, or some form of ancient Hebrew, not English.

So, when the biblical god said, "I AM," it would not have sounded like Jaime. Doing a quick search on google shows that in Hebrew, the words ani kayyam would mean, "I exist" which is close as you can get to "I am" in English. Jaime, in Hebrew means "Supplanter". Supplanter means "one who wrongfully or illegally seizes and holds the place of another." It does not mean "I am me".
edit on 18-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




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