What if It Happened Tomorrow?

Let me start by saying my intention is not to offend or insult anyone, just to stir some thoughts.

Just so y'all know where i'm coming from: for a while now i have felt that something was going to happen at the end of this year. Until very recently i feared it would be the SHTF scenarios we are all familiar with and about 5 years ago i began planning accordingly. i bought guns, started a garden (which i enjoy immensely by the way), and grew a nice little stockpile of food and ammo. Very recently, however, i have come to believe that what is waiting for us in December will be a much more positive experience.

So, what if It, TEOTWAWKI, happened tomorrow? Total economic collapse, devaluation of the dollar, supervolcano, or god forbid, a nuclear exchange, take your pick. What would you do with all your preps? Say you climbed into your bunker / basement / retreat and after a week or so poked your head out? Say everything was fine for a month or so until people's normal household supplies began to run out and the stores were picked clean. What would you do then?

Could you, would you put a .223 through the head of a mother as she came to your door begging for food for her starving children? What if she came back with her husband? Her family? Could you do that to protect 'your' supplies?

i've read The Road, i've seen The Walking Dead, and the myriad of stories like them, and i've come to a conclusion: i do not want to live in that kind of world, We have been living in that world for many thousands of years and i am ready for a new One. i would rather perish with my humanity intact, helping my brothers and sisters than live in a world where i am forced to harm others to eek out my own miserable survival.

i say, if TEOTWAWKI really is waiting for us in Decmber lets make it exactly that: the end of the world as we know it. What if we used such an impetus to make a new, a better world?

Much Love!

reply to post by soulshn


Dear soulshn,

I like what you had to say. It is not about possible calamities, it is about the world we make today. A fellow pastor I know says that he is a Pantheist; he says it all pans out in the end. Peace.

Originally posted by soulshn


i've read The Road, i've seen The Walking Dead, and the myriad of stories like them, and i've come to a conclusion: i do not want to live in that kind of world,

Have you seen Mad Max? Have you seen Tina Turner?! I mean... that's gonna scare you!

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Ha!

Indeed i have and indeed it did. If it came to that i may have to turn the AR on my friends and family out of mercy.

Originally posted by soulshn
Could you, would you put a .223 through the head of a mother as she came to your door begging for food for her starving children? What if she came back with her husband? Her family? Could you do that to protect 'your' supplies?

That's precisely why you don't stay "at your door".

Better off finding a safe place to stay (eg away from people) then to sit at home and wait for # to come to you.

These type of people are heavily domesticated and rely on the money system to survive. If that disappears and you start feeding them, they are going to become dependant on you instead.

Originally posted by soulshn

Could you, would you put a .223 through the head of a mother as she came to your door begging for food for her starving children? What if she came back with her husband? Her family? Could you do that to protect 'your' supplies?

i've read The Road, i've seen The Walking Dead, and the myriad of stories like them, and i've come to a conclusion: i do not want to live in that kind of world, We have been living in that world for many thousands of years and i am ready for a new One. i would rather perish with my humanity intact, helping my brothers and sisters than live in a world where i am forced to harm others to eek out my own miserable survival.

i say, if TEOTWAWKI really is waiting for us in Decmber lets make it exactly that: the end of the world as we know it. What if we used such an impetus to make a new, a better world?

Much Love!

edit on 4/17/12 by soulshn because: Meh, i really should proofread more. Sorry Mrs Brown.

There are many like minded people, and humanity will prevail. Community will be the only way back from the brink, and the sooner it can be re-established, the shorter the lag in supplies. There is great power in numbers, and small groups of bandits and thugs will become extinct as civilization begins to reconnect.

I have said this before,, SOMETHING WONDERFUL IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN,,,

But first a Message from our Sponsers,,,, giving us Fascist NWO type Dystopia s that swirls our collective consciousness until we grow dizzy and faint from '''''Fear?"

Yes,, I too have prepared,, and like you,, also know that something different Can Happen
if enough try to make a better World out of the Ashes that are burning now. not just a "NEW WORLD ORDER"
but a BETTER WORLD ORDER,,, which I claim as my personal alternative to the NWO group of fascist elites.
the BWO will win out in the End

But just in case,,,
Loaded and ready for the bastards that have no regard for life,,, because they should run out first to see how much the can bully everyone into some form of control. and will have to be subdued and contained somehow.

It will be an interesting Summer of 2012,,, can't wait for December to roll around,,,,

Let IMAGINE this into a reality for ALL HUMANITY not just a few Elite.

Some hard work and times ahead,,,
but still believe
SOMETHING WONDERFUL IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN!!!

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
These type of people are heavily domesticated and rely on the money system to survive. If that disappears and you start feeding them, they are going to become dependant on you instead.

The point i was getting at was that 'these type of people' are you, they are me, they are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers. Would you have them thrown to the wolves so to speak, or would you welcome them and try to teach them how, not just to survive, but to thrive? Would you teach them how to raise a garden and share some of those heirloom seeds, or lock the doors and hope they don't find you before they starve to death?

why does everyone talk about a "Great New United Humanity"?
Why cant we just go back to small tribes and clans, that meet up with other nearby small tribes and clans, and so on?
I feel most of our problems stem from us all trying to unite into 1 huge, happy family.
I just dont see that happening...
just my .02

reply to post by soulshn


You don't shoot anyone unless they are trying to endanger your family. I will help others out with my supplies, I plan on helping people in need if I can. I will not allow someone to bully me into giving them food either, and will try to deter people trying to extremely profit from this kind of event. These profiteers will be get everything they deserve in the end. I will try to get people to work together in the area, young and old, good and bad. Evil people can go to hell where they belong. Those who think they are better than others during a SHTF are not my sort of people. I live in a small community and will try to pull people together. Things would be a lot worse in a big city.

reply to post by Elostone


Going back to Tribal would work only if there were mutually agreeded upon ''rules of engagement' for interclan/tribal contact.
So,, basically we still would need something Globally that would guide us in how we act and react with each others "Tribes",,
Not working right now with the present Tribes ruling the world,
but
I do believe LOCAL SMALL GROUPS SHOULD HAVE THE MOST POWER OVER THE WHOLE BY ACTION not FORCE

hard subject but I believe Much is Possible to those who think outside the BOX.

reply to post by soulshn


If it came to pass that tomorrow I raised my head from my pillow to an alarm clock that did not blink, a cell phone with no service, and a coffee pot not brewing...

I would thank my stars. I would lean my head back and laugh with a selfish cackle of ecstasy. My voice would rise above the silence in metered tones, alive with the song "Oh Freedom" (an old negro spiritual). I would slide across the floor in my skivies like Tom Cruise in Risky Business.

My thoughts would convict the stupid mindless sheep, and my heart would rejoice knowing that Justice soon would be sweeping through with sickle and pestilence.

I would twirl, dance and sing, for finally a wish long answered had been delivered. Justice and Consequence would now prevail!

reply to post by sakokrap

That happens around here at least once a year. We call it a power outage when nothing electrical works here. That's normal life, not SHTF

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
reply to post by Elostone

 

Going back to Tribal would work only if there were mutually agreeded upon ''rules of engagement' for interclan/tribal contact.
So,, basically we still would need something Globally that would guide us in how we act and react with each others "Tribes",,
Not working right now with the present Tribes ruling the world,
but
I do believe LOCAL SMALL GROUPS SHOULD HAVE THE MOST POWER OVER THE WHOLE BY ACTION not FORCE

hard subject but I believe Much is Possible to those who think outside the BOX

.

Mutually agreed upon rules of engagement?
How about, "This is my hunting ground, that's my garden, THAT is MY woman, and if you want to deck it out with me for it, let's go? If not, lets share knowledge, resources and community."
The way we have arrived where we are today is in no small part due to the fact that we many put our trust in the few to determine "our" rules of engagement.
Time to go back to square 1, IMHO

This is a very interesting topic, and one I have spent some time thinking about in the past. When 9/11 occurred I was a college student taking a course in cultural anthropology. I figured it would be timely to do a research paper on the potential decline of modern civilization and what the best choice would be for survival. I started out think that I would help others in my community and that by everyone working together, some form of society would continue to thrive. Upon doing my research I discovered that my hypothesis couldn’t have been more wrong.

What I discovered after looking over historical cases where societies collapsed was that your best choice is to leave large urban areas and survive in a small group with people you trust. Call it what ever you want: tribe, clan, family, fictive kin group, etc. There are two primary reasons for this. First, urban areas are going to be more prone to diseases that you won’t be able to treat without a substantial form of medical care.

The second reason is much more important. No matter how far a society may slide, someone will always be in control. Be it a warlord in Somalia or the head of a gang in a prison, some one will fill the power vacuum. The way that person will maintain control is be providing protection and providing for the needs of their followers. While it might seem like the right thing to do, helping other actually makes you a target since you’re undermining the new leader’s ability to maintain control. A perfect example of this can be seen in missionaries and aid workers being taken hostage in crisis stricken areas.

If you stay in urban areas you will almost inevitably lose you sense of humanity. It won’t be because you want to, but it will occur as a survival mechanism. Your sense of what’s right and wrong is based on cognitive reflection as described in the Kohlberg Stages of Moral Development.

en.wikipedia.org...

The concept behind the Kohlberg stages is that if all of your basic needs (level 1 Maslow) are being met, you’re more likely to have cognitive thought processing regarding what is right and wrong (i.e. wrong or inappropriate behavior leads to negative results, thus you avoid those behaviors) and as time goes on you develop to further stages. Generally speaking a person does not slide backwards on the scale. However, if basic needs are not being met, the concept of morality will eventually take a back seat to survival. The only way to prevent this from happening would be to place yourself in an environment that maximizes you ability to survive with as little risk as possible. If you’re in an environment where you can meet basic needs without threat you have a better chance of maintaining moral development.

Just my two cents, for whatever it’s worth.

See, as unlucky as you American's are, cause your Government is so against you... You are also very lucky..
I say this because, in a SHTF scenerio, where, as you say, your forced to protect your food supplys and ammo etc. you may be able to do so but for me its different. I live in London and guns are not so easy to get, unless you want a crap rebourg thats probably been used in numerous gun-related crimes, plus ammo isnt exactly abundant here either. So my outcome would be very different from yours.

In a martial law situation, I wouldnt stand much of a chance with say a knife, bat, hammer etc. against uniformed officials.
If a Nuke hit Central London, the fallout would probably kill everyone within a few miles of me

So to be honest, I dont really want any SHTF situation, ever!
Looking forward to the Olympic's though

reply to post by Elostone

I actually agree, we do need to 'go back to square One' so to speak. But many are afraid that reinventing the wheel will only lead to more of the same, so some how we have to have our consciousness raised somehow. As was spoken of by Jackel0479 in regards to Maslov needs and Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development is so very true and must be understood.

So yes, Tribal COULD work, but what I was saying is that if they are to interact globally there still will have to be an agreed upon code of conduct to make it better than what we have now. Something along a 'code of Honor' and how when some tribes fought it was more symbolic,, such as counting coup,,, instead of Dead men, women and children everywhere. Shame also was an effective tool of some tribes, and could somehow work with a bent towards Peace not War????

Differences will have to be worked out,,, so I am not totally for a reversion to antiquity as regards tribal contact and conflict. Battles really need to be more cerebral and of the order of diplomacy if we are to avoid a repeat of what we already have today.
Again,, Local groups, cities, towns, people need to develop clear communications and sound strategy to defeat the poisoned governments we are currently dealing with now. Peace is the real Alternative to Dystopia's that wait for us in alternative futures. Peace is every step, and somehow we must learn the way to eliminate the psychopaths from gaining footholds in positions of power. There isn't a test yet for how much empathy for others one has or does not have, nor a way to weed out those with no conscious feelings of guilt for evil done.

Know yourself
Know your Neighbors
and as trite as it sounds
ACT LOCALLY WHILE THINKING GLOBALLY.

Think and act NON Violently,, yet reserve the right to defend self when pushed beyond the limits. Peace somehow must take hold in one's heart first before it is effective enough to withstand small slights and injuries without cutting anothers hand or head off.

Our Multinational companies, the 'Elite Rich' many Religions and governments are overstepping much to attain what we are dreaming of here,,
PEACE ON EARTH AND GOODWILL TOWARDS MANKIND.

Believe it or not I have made some provision for people who are in need, the "grasshoppers" who danced and fiddled through the golden summertime while us worker ants were storing away for the harsh winter ahead.

I know a group that plans to organize the operation just like a homeless shelter: If you want some food, you can share your labor on one of the group's projects. For instance, spend the morning helping to build a barricade, and be paid with a bowl of soup. Work all day on plowing up the parking lot, and be paid in several ounces of meat served over a bed of rice. Help them build huts for newcomers, and be assigned one for you family. You get the idea. Leave if you don't like it. Stay if you are satisfied that this is the best system for you right now.

If you prove to have special skills, and can bear real responsibility, you'll soon get assigned a group of workers to implement your next project, along with enough food to "pay" them. They benefit, and so do you. So does the community that rewards every worker for contributing to the general welfare.

That system of peonage worked for about 6,000 years, before being replaced by the economies of scale seen in the industrial revolution. It worked because there was an immediate reward for labor, and the whole community realized when someone was a shirker or gold-bricker. The early church in the Bible started out with a commune, but quickly replaced it with "will-work-for-food", which rewards industry and punishes indolence. It helps childish people mature very quickly. That system is also the basis for the free market, which is so much stronger than a planned economy anyway.

Like our ancestors, there are only two recognized punishments: the gauntlet, and being declared an "out-law." An outlaw was originally someone who was beyond the protection of the community's laws. At some points in history, merely being outside of any community's walls was practically a death penalty.

If the S ever does HTF, there will be a bear market in b.s. A whole lot of imaginary crap like credit and debit will dissapear over night, and be replaced with a much more honest approach to human relations. On the other hand, important entities will also disappear.... like dentists and oncologists, as well as ice and pizza.

Originally posted by soulshn

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
These type of people are heavily domesticated and rely on the money system to survive. If that disappears and you start feeding them, they are going to become dependant on you instead.

The point i was getting at was that 'these type of people' are you, they are me, they are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers. Would you have them thrown to the wolves so to speak, or would you welcome them and try to teach them how, not just to survive, but to thrive? Would you teach them how to raise a garden and share some of those heirloom seeds, or lock the doors and hope they don't find you before they starve to death?

edit on 4/17/12 by soulshn because: (no reason given)

There has to be a balance, you can't just take everyone in, there's not enough supplies for that. If you have enough for you and possibly enough to share like rations, then you take in people with something to offer. People that are like minded and "safe". Dont throw caution to the wind because youre eager to start the better world, someone could cross you, take you out, and live off your stash.

Originally posted by tovenar

Believe it or not I have made some provision for people who are in need, the "grasshoppers" who danced and fiddled through the golden summertime while us worker ants were storing away for the harsh winter ahead.

I know a group that plans to organize the operation just like a homeless shelter: If you want some food, you can share your labor on one of the group's projects. For instance, spend the morning helping to build a barricade, and be paid with a bowl of soup. Work all day on plowing up the parking lot, and be paid in several ounces of meat served over a bed of rice. Help them build huts for newcomers, and be assigned one for you family. You get the idea. Leave if you don't like it. Stay if you are satisfied that this is the best system for you right now.

If you prove to have special skills, and can bear real responsibility, you'll soon get assigned a group of workers to implement your next project, along with enough food to "pay" them. They benefit, and so do you. So does the community that rewards every worker for contributing to the general welfare.

That system of peonage worked for about 6,000 years, before being replaced by the economies of scale seen in the industrial revolution. It worked because there was an immediate reward for labor, and the whole community realized when someone was a shirker or gold-bricker. The early church in the Bible started out with a commune, but quickly replaced it with "will-work-for-food", which rewards industry and punishes indolence. It helps childish people mature very quickly. That system is also the basis for the free market, which is so much stronger than a planned economy anyway.

Like our ancestors, there are only two recognized punishments: the gauntlet, and being declared an "out-law." An outlaw was originally someone who was beyond the protection of the community's laws. At some points in history, merely being outside of any community's walls was practically a death penalty.

If the S ever does HTF, there will be a bear market in b.s. A whole lot of imaginary crap like credit and debit will dissapear over night, and be replaced with a much more honest approach to human relations. On the other hand, important entities will also disappear.... like dentists and oncologists, as well as ice and pizza.

Sounds like we should go back to earning and training things like medicine, fruits,veggies, nuts, wheats, meats, labor, etc..no money required and sounds fair.