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Who are you: Part V - The "Other" Side...

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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In this part of my series i will take a different approach to what people are used to in the religious section...

As with the rest of these threads i will attempt to show the reader evidence that You are body and spirit... Both exist simultaneously as ONE in the same place in time. Realization of the spirit is of Vital importants in your spiritual progression in this life...

This will come from sources that most christians have deemed Heretical in nature... but keep in mind this is not Christian theology... this is my own.

I will let the reader decide...

I do not represent any sect of any religion, nor do i seek conversion.


And so we begin...

It has been said that Jesus taught many things to his appostles that were not written down... There is also many statements within the bible that state that there are "mysteries" and secrets that were kept from the majority of his followers and only taught to his closest friends.

Origenes Adamantius

HE conversed with His disciples in private, and especially in their sacred retreats, concerning the Gospel of God; but the words which He uttered have not been preserved, because it appeared to the evangelists that they could not be adequately conveyed to the multitude in writing or in speech and they saw what things were to be committed to writing, and how this was to be done, and what was by no means to be written to the multitude, and what was to be expressed in words, and what was not to be so conveyed.


The existence of these "mysteries" can be found within the NT...

Mark 4:11-12 / Matt. 13:11-12 - Matt. 11:25-26
/ 1 Cor. 2:6-8 / 1 Cor. 4:1

One of these "mysteries" is reincarnation... and believe it or not "resurection"...

Both are taught in almost all forms of religion (save one)... And there is a reason for this...

IF you believe you only have one life to live, and religion has the keys to "eternal life"... They have power over you... According to them there is only one way... their way or eternal damnation in "hell"...

This is incorrect... And one of the biggest lies in human history...

As you can see, even those that commit the greatest of "sin"... still gain access to the afterlife... there is no exception to this rule...

Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Now please do not misunderstand... Know that where there is reward, there is also punishment... though the mythological "hell" is only an option IF you truely believe such a place exists... Your believe in said firey place, and the guilt of your actions within this life MIGHT land you in such a place... Belief is very powerful, it creates reality even after the death of the body.

Punishment


Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


Or in other words, what you do will come back to you... in this life or the next...

The Apocalypse of Paul tells of a soul that has commited murder... And as he is whipped by "angels" his peers within life are witness to his crimes against his brothers... and after his punishment and judgement he is "cast down" into a body prepared for him...

Then the Holy Spirit who was speaking with him caught him up on high to the third heaven, and he passed beyond to the fourth heaven. The Holy Spirit spoke to him, saying, "Look and see your likeness upon the earth." And he looked down and saw those who were upon the earth. He stared and saw those who were upon the [...]. Then he gazed down and saw the twelve apostles at his right and at his left in the creation; and the Spirit was going before them.

But I saw in the fourth heaven according to class - I saw the angels resembling gods, the angels bringing a soul out of the land of the dead. They placed it at the gate of the fourth heaven. And the angels were whipping it. The soul spoke, saying, "What sin was it that I committed in the world?" The toll-collector who dwells in the fourth heaven replied, saying, "It was not right to commit all those lawless deeds that are in the world of the dead". The soul replied, saying, "Bring witnesses! Let them show you in what body I committed lawless deeds. Do you wish to bring a book to read from?"

And the three witnesses came. The first spoke, saying, "Was I not in the body the second hour [...]? I rose up against you until you fell into anger and rage and envy." And the second spoke, saying, "Was I not in the world? And I entered at the fifth hour, and I saw you and desired you. And behold, then, now I charge you with the murders you committed." The third spoke, saying, "Did I not come to you at the twelfth hour of the day when the sun was about to set? I gave you darkness until you should accomplish your sins." When the soul heard these things, it gazed downward in sorrow. And then it gazed upward. It was cast down. The soul that had been cast down went to a body which had been prepared for it. And behold, its witnesses were finished.



Pistis Sophia, one of my favorite texts discribes this process in detail... You are given the body you deserve...

A "man who curses" is given a body that will be continually "troubled in heart". A "man who slanders" receives a body that will be "oppressed". A thief receives a "lame, crooked and blind body". A "proud" and "scornful" man receives "a lame and ugly body" that "everyone continually despises." Thus earth, as well as hell, becomes the place of punishment.


Yet even those that have not understood the ways of God are not Cast into "hell"...

There are many arguements on these very forums that state: What if a person lives a good life, but has never heard of Jesus?

As i've said, everyone without exception will return to the source... Even those that have not realized the existence of the spirit will be given what they deserve...

I was given a sound body to live in because I was already good." (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20)

Pistis Sophia also gives us an answer to this question.... this person will return to the physical world and be given "a cup filled with thoughts and wisdom" allowing the soul to remember its divine origin and pursue the "mysteries of the light"


Thereafter there cometh a receiver of the little Sabaōth, the Good, him of the Midst. He himself bringeth a cup filled with thoughts and wisdom, and soberness is in it; [and] he handeth it to the soul. And they cast it into a body which can neither sleep nor forget because of the cup of soberness which hath been handed unto it; but |389. it will whip its heart persistently to question about the mysteries of the Light until it find them, through the decision of the Virgin of Light, and inherit the Light for ever."



This life is a educational system... designed for us to learn how God wants us to act... IF you don't learn what you're here to learn... you will return to the phyiscal world in whatever body you've earned.

HE is the way.




Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV

edit on 17-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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The soul has neither beginning nor end. [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous lives" - Origen

At the time of the death of you body... the spirit returns to the source... and his/her life is judged based on their actions within this life...

IF the soul is deemed unworthy, he/she is cast down to earth (the phyical world)... There is a few different ways this process is described...

In places it is said that "a veil is place over the eyes, hiding the soul's true origin"... Other sources say the soul is given the "drink of forgetfulness"...

Most will not retain knowledge of their previous lifes... but there are some that do... they are blessed with "visions" and memories of their previous existance so that they might realize the spirit is real...

Once this knowledge is realized... One must learn the ways of the spirit...

This is not always an easy task

"When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will bear! - Thomas

The spirit that seeks truth will find it within the words of those who know...

This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again." (Secret Book of John 14:20)

Seek those who preach LOVE...

They know the path, and have walked it...

The law of LOVE is written within the the heart of ALL mankind... but most do not see it...

This is why we seek knowledge within scripture...



1My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

2Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

3Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.


Those commandments are as follows.... Love God... And love thy neighbour as yourself...

Those that do not listen to what is within, will not hear this law...

They are blind to the ways of God, and do not hear him...

God i pray thee.... let those with ears hear what i say...




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Very nice words, and good on you for quoting from those pieces.


The cup mentioned in the Pistis Sophia speaks to me of my life because I have thoughts and know things that seem to have been there all along. Even growing in a Christian family, the idea of reincarnation (I referred to it as rebirth) was second nature to me. I was even writing a story (when I was about 17, over 10 years ago) that revolved all around that and the eternal state of the spirit. Not only that, but the "hellish" aspect was a temporary place of cleansing, and somehow I wrote about all of this and more without being exposed to any outside material that has similar beliefs. When I look back at all that I'm left feeling a bit amazed, because that cup was there the whole time telling me "Hey, this is how it is!" The main character even was a man who retained all his memories from his past lives to keep getting stronger and wiser! Sorry for going a bit off-topic there, but I just wanted to say that because it got me very excited.


Thank you for this post.
Much love to you and your works.
edit on 17/4/12 by AdamsMurmur because: forgot to mention age



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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Personally, I always thought that the stereotypical fire and brimstone Hell thing was just to give people who could be taught their "one last chance" to straighten up. Sort of a cosmic "scared straight" scenario.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 


You are not off-topic my friend...

What you discribe is your spirit screaming to be realized... It longs for the rest of its brothers to come to this realization as well...

This is why i write what i do...

My spirit aches for my brothers and sisters to awake and know themselves...

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Thomas

Thank you for the kind words




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


The Gospel of Thomas was one of my alarm clocks. It's funny that you'd quote from it when replying to me though.
Just means that you're aware of the path I walked.


I've felt something for much of my life, including the urge to help others, but I realized I didn't know enough to really do that and there was some taint as well (the lies of eternal damnation and what not holding my spiritual growth back). My Christian upbringing wasn't nearly enough to sate my thirst for sobriety either, so I "fasted from the world" and rested (meditated). Constantly asked to "know" more, "know you more", "know you better", "I want to see." After an up and down ride, things were revealed to me and I woke up. Now that feeling I had deep inside of me feels better seated, and part of it is echoed here:

Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty. But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

So now I too try to help others change their ways; not necessarily to go the same way I went, but to understand the force behind life is love, and this love's power is ineffable, but it accepts all because all came from it. No one is cast into a lake of fire for all eternity, we're loved far too much for something monstrous like that to occur. And while one may "burn", it won't be forever. We experience what we need to experience for our own good.
edit on 17/4/12 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Other sources say the soul is given the "drink of forgetfulness"...


When a person has to return, their memory is wiped. But, some basic parameters are left there. (Personality, Traits, etc.) Even angels from above who act up (do something not approved of), are sometimes sent into the physical to live in a human body to learn. No one is exempt (angels nor humans).



The spirit that seeks truth will find it within the words of those who know...


Many are sent from above to teach and guide and show the truth. Each spirit here will be led to said person. But, it is up to the person rather or not they will receive the word and abide by it.



The law of LOVE is written within the the heart of ALL mankind... but most do not see it...


Everyone knows remorse, even the angels who have gone astray in the beginning. Many say said person heart has grown cold, it has not. Love is still there, but they mask it to the outside world. Some show love differently than others.



It has been said that Jesus taught many things to his appostles that were not written down... There is also many statements within the bible that state that there are "mysteries" and secrets that were kept from the majority of his followers and only taught to his closest friends.


Man would have too many questions if these things were spread out in the open. The original bible, is about as thick as from the floor to your knee. But, it contained too many of these mysteries, so Father gave the order to conceal some of these things, thus you have your bible that is a condensed version now. If more was given, many non-believers would believe. But, all of the answers can not be given, you must learn by experience. Thus the need for many to return here and elsewhere to learn.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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Akragon, if reincarnation exists, why aren't enough people learning anything from their previous experiences?

Why does it appear that humanity is becoming more ignorant as opposed to wiser through this?



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Akragon, if reincarnation exists, why aren't enough people learning anything from their previous experiences?

Why does it appear that humanity is becoming more ignorant as opposed to wiser through this?


You are viewing this from this Earths perspective. There are many other placed that Father sends people besides Earth. Out of all the others, this here Earth is the worst of all the other places.

If man learned early on, we wouldn't be here to speak on this. Man still has his own mind to depend on, which causes the destruction of many. The spirit will lead you to all truth.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76

You are viewing this from this Earths perspective. There are many other placed that Father sends people besides Earth. Out of all the others, this here Earth is the worst of all the other places.

If man learned early on, we wouldn't be here to speak on this. Man still has his own mind to depend on, which causes the destruction of many. The spirit will lead you to all truth.


Where are these other places? How many are there? Do these places have names?

If earth is the worst place for advancing, why send anyone back here at all?
edit on 18-4-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


What a great post Akragon!

It is very easy to identify with the way you present your information. S&F.

I find that approaching Christianity from an open study of all material available, whether sanctioned by the Church or not, to be refreshing.

Many of the books you referenced are some of my favorites. I also believe in reincarnation. Though I tend to view it in the aspects of which my mother teaches me. She calls herself an Eclectic Spiritual Psychic.
We tease her unmercifully. LOL. Anyhow, she does a lot of astral travel work and has a huge story about what she's been shown in her astral travels happens when we die. Your overall message, reminds me of what she talked about.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

. . . It has been said that Jesus taught many things to his appostles that were not written down...

There is a verse similar to that but says, did, and not, said.
John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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Am I to assume that no one has any answers to my previous questions?

I can understand the concept of coming to earth as a learning experience, but why re-experience it?

If the earth is veiled in darkness, and your previous life is veiled too, what good does this do?



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Probably because it's a New Age concept that doesn't happen nearly as much as they claim,

I believe reincarnation is possible, but I don't believe it happens to most people....I believe all go to Sheol, and some go to different parts of Sheol (some into prison/chains, some into nonexistence/death, and some into Paradise)

This view is supported by the Bible,

their view is supported by mens ideas that have become popular over the last century or two....

I choose the Biblical view, holds a lot more weight than some sketchy new age "seer" or "diviner"

Whatever though, what do us Bible thumpers know?

PS: it's pretty deceptive of someone to try and support unbliblical claims with Bible verses that have been twisted and taken out of context, thrown together with some extrabiblical nonsense from apocryphal books, to make a new age false idea seem plausible...... just IMO
edit on 4/19/2012 by Iason321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


Reincarnation is not a new age subject my friend... its far older then christianity... and the bible...

You might notice i said this IS NOT CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY...

And would you mind telling me what exactly was twisted in my OP? This view is supported by scripture that is also far older then the bible... Not the ones i mentioned of course but that is beside the point...


Whatever though, what do us Bible thumpers know?


My sentiments exactly...




posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Akragon, if reincarnation exists, why aren't enough people learning anything from their previous experiences?

Why does it appear that humanity is becoming more ignorant as opposed to wiser through this?


Not all society is becomming "more ignorant" that is just your perspective... that will of course depend on your life and who you associate with...

And what makes you believe people learn nothing from their previous existances?

It says " a person that has been good within their life yet has not found the mysteries, is given a cup of wisdom... so that they are ever seeking in the ways of the light"


Where are these other places? How many are there? Do these places have names?

If earth is the worst place for advancing, why send anyone back here at all?


Its said there are 7-9 heavens you accend through... I don't know their names...

And i don't really agree that earth is the worst of these places of learning... but of course i don't know either...



edit on 19-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Let's use leaders/governments of nations as an example, do you perceive them as becoming wiser?

Maybe it's just me, but I think the more knowledge they gain, the less common sense they apply, therefore making them ignorant.

Here's a question I haven't asked. What is the prerequisite for being reincarnated back to earth?

I've heard about the different levels of heaven, but to me, that just proves life after death, not reincarnation.

Why would anyone who's lived an earthly life reincarnate back to earth to live another earthly life?

So, you think the "good people" get a cup of wisdom and then reincarnate back to earth? So, does the current state of our world only mean that the evil people are populating faster than the good ones?
edit on 19-4-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



Let's use leaders/governments of nations as an example, do you perceive them as becoming wiser?

Maybe it's just me, but I think the more knowledge they gain, the less common sense they apply, therefore making them ignorant.


Keep in mind you're talking about people that have already submitted to the ways of "this world"... Materialistic, greedy and selfish... Governments are made up of lawyers... basically paid theives.


Here's a question I haven't asked. What is the prerequisite for being reincarnated back to earth?


I don't know... i would assume a selish person would return to the physical...


Why would anyone who's lived an earthly life reincarnate back to earth to live another earthly life?


I believe they choose to come back... or are forced to depending on the person...


So, you think the "good people" get a cup of wisdom and then reincarnate back to earth? So, does the current state of our world only mean that the evil people are populating faster than the good ones?


You're focusing too much on the media and what it tells you...

The world is a beautiful place... but if you approach it based on what you see in the news and on TV its a trash dump... Don't believe the hype bro...

Evil is a very subjective term... but in general its selfishness examplified...

Those you call evil have their needs to be recognized by the world and their peers... You don't really hear about Good people in this world... because Good news does not sell... destruction and death sells... the latest trends sell... Celebrities lives sell...

Theres plenty of Good people in this world my friend... and more people are "waking up" every day...




posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

You're focusing too much on the media and what it tells you...

The world is a beautiful place... but if you approach it based on what you see in the news and on TV its a trash dump... Don't believe the hype bro...

Evil is a very subjective term... but in general its selfishness examplified...

Those you call evil have their needs to be recognized by the world and their peers... You don't really hear about Good people in this world... because Good news does not sell... destruction and death sells... the latest trends sell... Celebrities lives sell...

Theres plenty of Good people in this world my friend... and more people are "waking up" every day...





Honestly, I don't even need the media to see it.

Due to the current economy, I'm seeing my small town of 20,000 turning into one big heap of poverty with more stealing, drugs and crimes than they've ever seen before. I'm not even sure that a bank had ever been robbed here before the last fews years. Now all of them have been robbed and some of them more than once. That's not to say that there aren't good people here, but it's discouraging when you start seeing an increase of good people turning to bad deeds in order to survive or escape their reality, thinking it's the only way.



posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by Akragon

You're focusing too much on the media and what it tells you...

The world is a beautiful place... but if you approach it based on what you see in the news and on TV its a trash dump... Don't believe the hype bro...

Evil is a very subjective term... but in general its selfishness examplified...

Those you call evil have their needs to be recognized by the world and their peers... You don't really hear about Good people in this world... because Good news does not sell... destruction and death sells... the latest trends sell... Celebrities lives sell...

Theres plenty of Good people in this world my friend... and more people are "waking up" every day...





Honestly, I don't even need the media to see it.

Due to the current economy, I'm seeing my small town of 20,000 turning into one big heap of poverty with more stealing, drugs and crimes than they've ever seen before. I'm not even sure that a bank had ever been robbed here before the last fews years. Now all of them have been robbed and some of them more than once. That's not to say that there aren't good people here, but it's discouraging when you start seeing an increase of good people turning to bad deeds in order to survive or escape their reality, thinking it's the only way.


Yes but until every person on this planet sees "the light"... these things will always happen...

And we both know that will never happen unless some divine miracle occurs... but if there was no crime and the world was completely perfect... it ceases to be a place of learning... So in my opinion there will never be peace on earth... but i also believe there isn't supposed to be... there is a reason for everything.

We all make our choices... people willingly choose to break the law... And they have chosen their side...

We that see the light must also be the change we want to see within the world...

Everyone changes the world every day of their lives...

So we must change it for the better

edit on 20-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)





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